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Parallax needs an arduino killer — Parallax Forums

Parallax needs an arduino killer

TCTC Posts: 1,019
edited 2014-02-21 03:07 in General Discussion
Hello all,

This post is only my opinion.

I am starting to get tired of hearing "arduino powered" from places like MAKE, Hack-A-Day, and others. What about Parallax? Parallax has been around for A LOT longer, and has provided better documentation, service, and support. But the arduino is all you hear. And from what I can tell, there is no end in sight.

Now, I know parallax made an arduino shield compatible board using the Prop. But at $49.99, no beginner will buy it. Not when the UNO is only $28 from the arduino store. That is what we need to do, make a product that is better than the arduino, at or less then the arduino's price point. Also, using the DIP model prop instead of the SMD. So if the beginner did screw up, it does not cost them an arm and leg to continue having fun.

If I had the resources, I would love to take on the challenge to kick arduino off of its pedestal that everyone puts it on.

Thanks
TC

Comments

  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2014-02-20 04:17
    DIP model would be more expensive.
    (I think there was a version of the PropStick with a DIP Propeller, once.)

    Propsticks are at $25, and Prototype boards are at $20.
    (Can't ask for much better than that, really)

    With the $20 price of Prototype boards, does it really matter that much if you toast a Propeller?
    (they're pretty resilient, though. All 5 boards I bought when they first came out still works)
  • TCTC Posts: 1,019
    edited 2014-02-20 04:33
    Gadgetman wrote: »
    DIP model would be more expensive.
    (I think there was a version of the PropStick with a DIP Propeller, once.)

    Yes, there was. I have it, and it still works. I like it because for only $8 I can get a new chip if I blow it(and I've done it)
    Propsticks are at $25, and Prototype boards are at $20.
    (Can't ask for much better than that, really)

    I agree, you cant ask for much better than that, or can you. If I was just starting out, I would rather spend as little as I can. just in case I found out I am not cut out for programing.
    With the $20 price of Prototype boards, does it really matter that much if you toast a Propeller?
    (they're pretty resilient, though. All 5 boards I bought when they first came out still works)

    And they are nice (i'm going to get some for upcoming projects), but with the vast amount of "shields" out there, it does not make sense to use them. There is no easy way to hook up parts. You have to solder parts on to use it.
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2014-02-20 05:09
    Shields?

    I F! hate shields!

    They all use the same resources, in an exclusive, "I don't care' the pins are there I'll waste them any way I want" style.

    The ONLY Arduinoesque solution I've seen, yet, that doesn't make a complete mess out of it is the microPython board(Kickstarted, boards in production) where the designer spread the different function pins across 2 'half-board' slots, so that you can place two boards with the same requirements side by side(mostly)

    Besides, Shields is the little death of creativity.
    More and more people get an Arduino and slap a shield on it and think they know how to design a system.
    And when it doesn't work, they have no idea why, and none of the knowledge necessary to figure it out.

    You need to connct and disconnect something from a Protoboard?
    Solder in a couple of pin headers, then get some Dupont connectors and possibly a crimping tool.
    (Just got one myself, about 2K male connectors, another 1K female connectors, and a lot of different-sized housings.)

    Bit of an Ooops...

    It was the Propeller Mini that costs $25.
    The Propstick USP is $50

    I have the DIP Propstick, too... and a Spinneret...
    Also a BS2p40, a BS1 OEM(well, the parts for one. Another project that never went anywhere... )
  • TCTC Posts: 1,019
    edited 2014-02-20 05:22
    I completely agree with you Gadgetman. I would rather Build my projects. But that is not the way of the world anymore. Heck I remember getting the electronics kits from Radio Shack (the kits that had the springs for connections). That is what I started my electronic hobby on. Now anymore, people want plug-and-play stuff. And it is sad.
  • Dave HeinDave Hein Posts: 6,347
    edited 2014-02-20 06:41
    I believe the developers of the Arduino started with the Basic Stamp, but they needed more capability. They needed the capability to do multiple tasks, and at a lower cost than the Basic Stamp. I think at this point it would be better to ride the wave of popularity of the Arduino than to try to try to kill it. The Arduino-compatible Propeller boards from MGH Designs are a good approach, along with PropGCC and an Arduino library. It should be possible to port the Arduino IDE to support the Prop. There has been some work on doing that.
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,934
    edited 2014-02-20 14:11
    Rather than a Propeller based Arduino killer board, I would like to see people replicate these "awesome" arduino projects being shown on Hackaday, MAKE, Instructables, etc, etc, with Propeller based versions. There are so many projects done that get all sorts of attention and most of them could be done with a Propeller without breaking a sweat. In fact, some recent projects shown on Hackaday as some "new" idea have been done with a Propeller years ago.
    One was the M&M sorting machine. That's old news for a Propeller project, but apparently is an eye-opening, jaw-dropping idea for the Hackaday folks. Another are the numerous Reverse Geocache type projects. Several Arduino ones are on Hackaday, many without sharing their code, yet no matter how many times I submit my Propeller based one with all of its code and design, it never makes it to the blog.

    So, next time you see some attention-getting Arduino project, embrace it, learn from it, then duplicate it much more beautifully with the Propeller and repost to Instructables, the forums, etc, etc. Then post comments on the Arduino version and link to yours.
  • GenetixGenetix Posts: 1,754
    edited 2014-02-20 15:20
    Killing the Arduino is not the answer since it might eventually die on its own.

    For now though Parallax should have tutorials showing the Propeller doing the same thing as an Arduino and how to make the Propeller function just like an Arduino.
    I can't think of a cute title though.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2014-02-20 16:37
    Gentix wrote:
    I can't think of a cute title though.
    Ardshark.

    -Phil
  • Jessica UelmenJessica Uelmen Posts: 490
    edited 2014-02-20 17:52
    At some point, I am sure that there were conversations about a 'BASIC Stamp killer'. I do not believe that the solution is ever to set out to 'kill' a competing product. With this mindset a business quickly loses focus on the positive - something we always try to keep in mind here at Parallax.

    Regardless of if you find fault, the Arduino opened the world of microcontrollers and electronics to people who were not engineers or technically trained. The simplicity of the platform kept them from being intimidated by trying something outside of their comfort zone. (Believe it or not, I have actually done extensive research into the market created and molded by the Arduino.)

    While Arduino may have seemed like an overnight success, it did not gain popularity by Arduino touting how great it was. No, the strength of the Arduino is in it's community. It is in the group of users who make eye-catching and interactive projects. They fuse electronics and whimsy, making project that journalists and bloggers wanted to write about.

    And remember that these are still mostly people new to electronics. They have no knowledge of things that were done years ago; to them every project is fresh and new.

    In line with what WBA Consulting said, if you would like to see Parallax and the Propeller more fairly represented then please submit your projects to Hack-a-Day, Instructables, Reddit, and Make. There is a limit to the power of Parallax in promoting the Propeller; we made the chip, so obviously we think it's great. Much like the Arduino community has shared their passion for the platform, we need the Propeller community to do the same. We are constantly impressed by your creations here on our forums, and we're sure that people outside these "walls" would love to see them too.

    So in the case of this 'suggestion' we must, in turn, ask for your aid. Help us in sharing passion for the Propeller, and together we can increase its representation.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2014-02-20 18:03
    Well said, Jessica!!

    Interesting, fun, reproducible projects should get notice and make people think about a Propeller. An easy entry costpoint and a learning path are key.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,392
    edited 2014-02-20 18:37
    Yeah, what Jessica said. I'm in total agreement: we need you to do this for us! Advertisements and noise from Parallax doesn't change much. If you're a big fan of the Propeller then tell the whole world! This will get us to P2 even faster, I'm certain!

    Ken Gracey
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,934
    edited 2014-02-20 19:30
    mindrobots wrote: »
    Interesting, fun, reproducible projects should get notice and make people think about a Propeller.
    Spot on to my point. If more Propeller projects were posted on Instructables, they would be noticed by non-Propeller users. Prove to others that the Propeller is easy to use for "cool" projects and it will become an available choice for the user base that the arduino is tapped into, the non-technical, yet creatively driven person.
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2014-02-20 19:46
    So in the case of this 'suggestion' we must, in turn, ask for your aid. Help us in sharing passion for the Propeller, and together we can increase its representation.
    Positive passion. We need more positive passion.

    All we have to do is help each other produce a great project once a week per person! ... ok, maybe too optimistic ....
  • TCTC Posts: 1,019
    edited 2014-02-21 03:07
    In line with what WBA Consulting said, if you would like to see Parallax and the Propeller more fairly represented then please submit your projects to Hack-a-Day, Instructables, Reddit, and Make. There is a limit to the power of Parallax in promoting the Propeller; we made the chip, so obviously we think it's great. Much like the Arduino community has shared their passion for the platform, we need the Propeller community to do the same. We are constantly impressed by your creations here on our forums, and we're sure that people outside these "walls" would love to see them too.

    Point taken. It not a product that we(parallax community) must change or create. But that we must work together to bring Parallax, and the propeller to the masses.
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