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video: Corvette Museum sinkhole - Drone goes inside sinkhole - 8 cars lost — Parallax Forums

video: Corvette Museum sinkhole - Drone goes inside sinkhole - 8 cars lost

Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
edited 2014-02-18 14:48 in General Discussion
Corvette museum sinkhole


The news that eight valuable 'vettes at Bowling Green, Kentucky's National Corvette Museum fell victim to a 40-foot-wide, 20-feet-deep sinkhole has triggered a collective gasp from the worldwide Corvette Nation.
"I was shocked," said Frazer Bharucha, 47, a Corvette owner since age 17. "We're talking about iconic cars that have been around for years."
The painful losses have been tallied: Of the eight cars that fell, six were donated to the museum by Corvette enthusiasts, and two are owned by the car's maker, General Motors. Among them were a 1962 Black Corvette, a 1984 PPG Pace Car, and a 1993 ZR-1 Spyder. The total value of the damaged cars is "substantial," said museum executive director Wendell Strode.

Comments

  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-02-12 14:25
    WT? I thought that only happened in Florida. Been there 3 times on my way to various jobs.

    What a loss. :(

    Guess there's going to be a new Kentucky cave venue.
  • TCTC Posts: 1,019
    edited 2014-02-12 14:53
    I am not a Corvette lover by any means. But I am a car lover, and seeing that hurts. Those are cars that will never have the same value or appeal knowing they had a major repairs.
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2014-02-12 15:44
    Oh, I'm so heart-broken. Ugh.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2014-02-12 16:32
    Oh, the terror....watching that gorgeous '62 clinging to it's last safe purchase with its poor bias ply tires...it's enough to bring tears to your eyes!!! It was hard enough being one of those transistional years but then to go through this horror ... Oh, the sorrow!
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2014-02-12 16:35
    I've always heard that commercial use of "drones" is not legal. You can only fly RC or autonomous aircraft for fun. Anything more and you need special permissions from the FAA.

    But where does the FAA authority begin? In this case, the entire flight is indoors. Does the FAA have control over that? What if I took a helicopter inside a big, closed stadium? Would I need a pilot's licence or could I just take my best shot?
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2014-02-12 16:35
    Scratch & dent sale tomorrow...

    Man that hurts. What are the odds of that happening? Is there sinkhole insurance?
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2014-02-12 17:06
    Drone video:
  • dgatelydgately Posts: 1,630
    edited 2014-02-12 17:19
    Upsetting for us Corvette fans, no doubt.

    Notice the journalist is standing in what looks to be a large drainage basin right next to the "dome" building?


    dgately
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-02-12 17:51
    Bad, alright, though -- ya know -- Kentucky is chock full of caves. Mammoth Cave National Park is just a few miles away from Bowling Green. The underlying cavern must have been there for eons. You would have thunk engineers did a sounding before putting up the museum and placing irreplaceable 'Vettes in it. Oy!!
  • lanternfishlanternfish Posts: 366
    edited 2014-02-12 23:00
    The good news is that 4 of them look recoverable. Admittedly it will take a bit of effort and the sink hole staying 'stable' for a few days but certainly doable.
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2014-02-13 00:40
    Eh...

    What kind of building codes exist there, really?
    I'd expect a building that's NOT on bedrock to have a proper foundation and floor in case something happens to the ground below it.
  • Mark_TMark_T Posts: 1,981
    edited 2014-02-13 04:04
    In the UK I don't believe we have much sinkhole prone terrain, and old mines are more likely
    to lead to collapse as happened here in 1988: http://www.flickr.com/photos/21804434@N02/3279171284/
    (no casualties)

    Old salt / brine and coal mines are a common cause of (normally undramatic) subsidence:
    http://coal.decc.gov.uk/en/coal/cms/services/reports/mining_report/mining_report.aspx

    There was a recent UK TV documentary on Florida sinkholes but it didn't mention any risks
    outside that state, though I have heard of the Lake Peigneur disaster...
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2014-02-13 05:18
    Ground settle and shift without necessarily ending up with a sinkhole.
    So why not build a proper floor that can hold up even if a void appears underneath it?
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2014-02-13 08:47
    Quick go to China and catch them when they come out the other side of the earth!
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,451
    edited 2014-02-13 15:43
    Pretty much the whole state of Kentucky is Swiss Cheese. You can have a nice vacation there just driving around looking for signs that say "cave tour." One thing that's very clear from the video is that the foundation has no reinforcing steel. Similar to the house in Florida where the poor guy plunged through his own foundation to his death without warning. Even when building codes specify rebar, if nobody's there during the pour it's an easy corner to cut and one most people never notice. But a few thousand dollars worth of steel in that foundation would probably have held the cars up long enough to get them to safety.
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2014-02-13 16:00
    Not on the same scale but it does happen in the UK, this one recently;

    http://www.itv.com/news/london/2014-02-03/sinkhole-outside-buckinghamshire-home-swallows-car/

    Not a sinkhole but a tunnel collapse at Heathrow in 1999:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/280107.stm
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-02-13 16:18
    From the drone videos it looks like the floor was just tar paper and asphalt, so it might as well have been straight on dirt. No support at all for a minimum of eight cars, with an average weight of about 3,000 to 3,500 pounds each. I can't imagine building something of that size in Kentucky, open to the public, without reinforcing the floor. Good thing no one was there at the time. They were very lucky.
  • vanmunchvanmunch Posts: 568
    edited 2014-02-13 20:11
    SRLM wrote: »
    I've always heard that commercial use of "drones" is not legal. You can only fly RC or autonomous aircraft for fun. Anything more and you need special permissions from the FAA.

    But where does the FAA authority begin? In this case, the entire flight is indoors. Does the FAA have control over that? What if I took a helicopter inside a big, closed stadium? Would I need a pilot's licence or could I just take my best shot?

    The FAA regulates the public airspace, so inside a building doesn't count.

    One interesting thing about commercial UAVs is that the FAA looks at the UAV in a different light if it is tethered to the ground so I've seen commercial UAV demos of quad copter with a 400' string attached to it, making it legal. BTW currently the FAA does not allow ANY commercial use of UAVs in the US. Yes, a company can partner with a select public entity, get FAA approval, and then fly, but it has to be for research and the data collected has to be made public so that no one gets an edge.

    Also, teaching students how to fly UAVs outside is also not allowed even if it's a public school. I know of one school that gets around this by flying inside a hanger and working with a military base that has it's own restricted airspace for when they want to fly outside.
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2014-02-14 16:39
    localroger wrote: »
    Pretty much the whole state of Kentucky is Swiss Cheese. You can have a nice vacation there just driving around looking for signs that say "cave tour." One thing that's very clear from the video is that the foundation has no reinforcing steel. Similar to the house in Florida where the poor guy plunged through his own foundation to his death without warning. Even when building codes specify rebar, if nobody's there during the pour it's an easy corner to cut and one most people never notice. But a few thousand dollars worth of steel in that foundation would probably have held the cars up long enough to get them to safety.
    That's actually frightening, are there no building officials that inspect the work? pouring concrete without reinforcement for foundations is a disaster waiting to happen, how many more structures are like that?
    There was a documentary on the BBC I believe showing how fragile concrete can be without reinforcement, it can be stressed and then explodes with devastating consequences if there is no steel to spread the stress.
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2014-02-14 18:27
    Roman concrete structures were not reinforced.

    I've heard that rebar rusts over time and can cause structural failures.


    colosseum-held-45000.jpg
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,451
    edited 2014-02-14 19:38
    In modern portland cement, the highly alkaline environment tends to inhibit the rusting of reinforcing steel. This can get messed up; if you put calcium in the concrete to speed curing, this can undo the alkalinity and cause reinforcing steel to rust. Since iron oxide is bigger than iron, and concrete has no tensile strength (which is why you use reinforcing steel), rusting rebar tends to cause "spalling." This is basically disintegration of the structure as the concrete is pushed apart by its own rust-expanding reinforcement.

    Atmospheric carbon dioxide also neutralizes the alkalinity of concrete, and concrete is porous, so it is usual to require rebar to be at least four inches from any surface of the concrete it is reinforcing. Even this, however, is only a delaying tactic; on the time scale of Roman constructions, most of what we have built with reinforced concrete will disintegrate as the CO2 and oxygen eventually get to the reinforcing steel.

    Roman concrete is very different from Portland cement; in fact, the formula was only recently rediscovered. It's not alkaline at all and would not work well with reinforcement. But the Romans understood their material and used its compressive strength and mass to advantage. The Romans built arches and domes, some of them impressively large, but they did not build large flat sheets like the foundation of the car museum because those would have crumbled under their own weight. For floors the Romans preferred bricks or tiles, which would have revealed the subsidence long before it became catastrophic. And of course Italy isn't Kentucky, so they had less problems with flat foundations.
  • Mark_TMark_T Posts: 1,981
    edited 2014-02-15 12:40
    Discovered a historical sinkhole incident in UK 1892, a steam locomotive still lies at unknown depth(!)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindal_Railway_Incident

    The recent exceptionally wet weather in the UK has triggered at least 4 sinkholes over the last month, the only
    casualty being an empty VW Lupo (though the latest will necessitate several houses being demolished...) Its
    a taste of Florida without any of the benefits :(
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2014-02-15 12:55
    Mark_T wrote: »
    The recent exceptionally wet weather in the UK has triggered at least 4 sinkholes over the last month, the only
    casualty being an empty VW Lupo (though the latest will necessitate several houses being demolished...)

    Not all bad, then if it removes such a blemish from the roads...
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-02-15 13:01
    Back in 1974, a few years before I got there, the computer science building of my university fell into a sink hole.
    Kent university is built on a hill. Under that hill was a tunnel that formed part of the first passenger railway line in the world. Stephen's Rocket Mark II ran on that line.
    The tunnel, long since disused, started to collapse taking the CS building with it. The tunnel was quickly filled in and a new CS building erected.

    I was very upset by this as it seemed to be the needles destruction of a piece of history. My friends and I had walked through that tunnel as kids. Very dark a spook in there.

    collapsecornwallis.jpg
    543 x 361 - 49K
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2014-02-15 13:28
    That was a tunnel through a hill of sand and dirt?

    They would probably have had to completely line he entire tunnel to keep it from collapsing.
    That wouldn't have left all that much of the original architecture in it.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-02-15 13:48
    Not sure. A lot of the South of England sits on a thick seam of chalk. Think White Cliffs of Dover. On top of which can be a lot of clay. Not sure about that hill though. There were no buildings up there much before the Uni and they put in a lot drainage which perhaps dried out the ground and cause shrinkage and things to start moving.

    Remember that it those days CS departments had huge mainframe computers, in this case from ICL, and specially build air condition spaces to put them in. That was millions of pounds worth of computer potentially disappearing down a hole!

    The tunnel was completely filled. Last time I was there the old redbrick entrances were still in good shape, only inside the arch was a wall of concrete.
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2014-02-18 14:48
    The corvette museum set up a live web cam to show the progress. Chevrolet has committed to restoring some of the damaged cars...

    Webcam link http://www.corvettemuseum.org/webcam/camera6.shtml
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