Protoboards

Hugh

I know they are supposed to be for prototyping and therefore subject to a bit of re-work, but my projects using Protoboards always end up looking like the nest of particularly untidy (i.e., probably teenage) bird.

Would anyone care to volunteer pictures of neatly-used Protoboards (from which I can blatantly steal good ideas and best practice!)?

Thanks
Hugh

LoopyByteloose

Are you referring to generic protoboards? Or are you referring to the Propeller ProtoBoard with a VGA, keyboard, and mouse interface?

Response depends on much of which you meant. I am a longtime user of the Propeller ProtoBoard and certainly have a series of solutions that seems to work well for me.

But to be honest, everything I soldered up in the first 5 years or so looked like trash, even if it worked well. One develops their own style and craftsmanship out of their first ugly ducklings.

Hugh

Yes, I meant the Propeller ProtoBoard with a VGA, keyboard, and mouse interface.

RDL2004

Well, it's not an actual Propeller Protoboard, but you may find some useful information in this post:

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/143250-Basic-Propeller-circuit-on-a-proto-board

Look at the second photo to see how I wire these kind of boards. Use component leads when possible, bare wire otherwise (but don't cross wires with no isulation of course). Use solder like glue to hold things in place between actual connections.

Hugh

RDL2004 wrote: »

Well, it's not an actual Propeller Protoboard, but you may find some useful information in this post:

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/143250-Basic-Propeller-circuit-on-a-proto-board

Look at the second photo to see how I wire these kind of boards. Use component leads when possible, bare wire otherwise (but don't cross wires with no isulation of course). Use solder like glue to hold things in place between actual connections.

Thanks - if you want to bridge two copper pads you can't: if you don't want to bridge them solder will jump across in a heartbeat.

mindrobots

Rick,

I always like to see your home made protoboard. It could be one of the finest examples of proto board construction I've seen in a long time!

Hugh, I would expect in a while you'll have more people with examples as more people get to "Forum Time" in their various time zones. If my memory serves me, there are quite a few folks that have used Parallax Protoboards in various ways in limited quantity production environments.

LoopyByteloose

Okay, I can talk shop on the Propeller Protoboard.

Basically I work with two specific issues.

A. Interfaces for power of add-ons

There is a strip across the top edge that has multiple +5, multiple Grounds, and multiple +3.3v holes. The interesting locations are where the +5.0 and a Gnd are adjacent, and where the +3.3v and Gnd are adjacent. At these I solder in a two pin male header for power takeoffs. I avoid using these holes for on-board power specifically because they are so handy for two wire power cable takeoffs.

i also create another two pin Vin near the Barrel Plug, using the ground from the same strip, and pulling a jumper off the barrel plug. In that way, I can provide power with a smaller two pin cable, and avoid having the big barrel plug getting in the way when I want to put the project in a box.

B. The other area of focus is the 4 quadrants around the Propeller chip. Some quadrants are more useful for off-board than others. The right hand quadrant is the most useful for external i/o for two reasons - [1] it has Pin 0 through Pin 7 addresses, and [2] there is a nice big space for a driver or level shifter DIP.

If you require 8 parallel outputs driven at a higher voltage, the UNL2803 Darlington is the easiest device to place there, but you likely are going to need to drive it with higher than +5 volts as Darlingtons have an internal voltage drop of 1.4 to 2.0 volts. In other words, if you want to drive 6 volt relays, you will likely need to provide 8 volts to the UNL2803 (a 9v battery will work and the relay will run a bit hot or a 7.2v lithium will work.)

The bottom quadrant is the most committed. You have Pin 30 and 31 already used for Rx and Tx. And you have your Pin 28 and Pin 29 committed to your EEProm. So, there really are only 4 empty i/o pins there. And I believe these are only empty if you are NOT using a keyboard or a mouse.

If you wire in the resistors for a keyboard and a mouse, the i/o is committed to 10K pullups. You can still use them for things that require pullups (like switches to ground, or SPI interfaces).

You can also locate a MAX232 for RS232 in this region to connect to P30 and P31, but it is a tight fit.

Alternatively you can set up an RS422 full duplex to P30 and P31.

But this location is lousy if you also want to have the Rst working through the MAX232 (do that near to the programing port).

The left most quadrant is almost useless if you have the VGA resistors in place. I have never been sure what to do here. If you are sure you need more i/o and are sure you won't have a VGA in your project, this area becomes useful.

The top most quadrant is narrow. If you solder a 10 pin female header here, you can plug in a cable to go off the board, or you can make boards that plug into these 10 pins.

+++++++++++
In general, I usually put 10 pin female headers to the left, right, and top. At the bottom, I use a 6 pin female header. I prefer female headers as all the i/o that are unconnected are covered and insulated from the world. I have had one board with male headers that a lot of the i/o pins failed... I presume static discharges have damaged them over time.

To avoid a lot of building on the Propeller ProtoBoard, I make boards that plug into the 10 pin female headers, or I use a 10 wire cable as a jumper to the ProtoBoard.

Only after I really know what I want do I build directly to a fresh ProtoBoard. So I have about three that remain rahter open for experimental use. (Hint - I buy 5 at a time)

I don't really take advantage of the servo plugs. The ground strip on the right side can be of some use.

I will try to get some photos posted before I say more.

RDL2004

Thanks - if you want to bridge two copper pads you can't: if you don't want to bridge them solder will jump across in a heartbeat.

Yeah, that's always a problem. Best way to bridge two pads is to thread a piece of bare wire down through one hole then up through the other. Solder it down and trim the ends with a flush cutter To avoid bridging when you don't want it, use extra flux and the smallest diameter solder possible, .031" is about as big as you ever want, doesn't hurt to have some smaller sizes available.

LoopyByteloose

I do prefer protoboards with linked pads, but Parallax decided otherwise.

The Propeller ProtoBoard might just do better if you were to use wire-wrapping and to have the DIPs plug into the bottom side, while the wire-wrap is on the top.

It would eliminate a lot of the accumulated damage from the heat of soldering. And in many cases the DIP sockets could be retained while different ICs are used in a different arrangement.

++++++++++
Taking another peek at the top quadrant, there is just barely enough room for deploying a UNL2803 if you fully commit to it and don't include a 10 pin female header.

I'd also like to have an Analog to Digital device on-board. Since that is SPI, it would best fit in the bottom or to the left side, and use the bottom edge i/o for interface. I suspect that many of us just need a VGA with Keyboard, so the remaining interface with 10K pullups can drive the ADC i/o.

This seems to be getting clearer. Definitely looking at your wiring in terms of the function of each quadrant is the way to go.

If the UNL2803 is on the top edge, that leave the right side 8 pins available for the most flexible addon via a plugin board. It is a good place to deploy an LCD port, or to have open for whatever.

++++++++++
DIPs can actually consumer more real estate in some cases than just using discrete components. An RS232 level shifter from transistors and resistors might actually consume less space than a Max232 (with its capacitors). Early on, Parallax provided a good schematic for this and I have used it many times. But building from scratch takes a lot more careful observation of what goes where. Do everything on paper first and double check, set aside and check again before you start to build.

++++++++++
Also, though all my early builds were is solid core wire, I have found that I prefer the flexability of stranded wire. If I have a problem... such as crosstalk, I can push the wire around to resolve it. And if I need to hold it in place, a bit of hot glue works fine.

Hugh

Thank you for the detailed replies. A new protoboard should arrive today so I will do my best and then (maybe) post the results.

Bill Henning

Or, you could use a different protoboard, one that was designed to be better than the Parallax protoboard...

(Click on the image for a large photo)

http://www.mikronauts.com/parallax-propeller/propteus/

Sapieha's layout of my design is beautiful as usual He also suggested the extra LED's and connectors on the bottom.

LoopyByteloose

The Propteus looks extremely nice and easy to use.

I even suspect that I could add an 8x ADC chip and find a way to have it take an just about any Arduino shield. .... loads of flexibility therein. The cost is reasonable as well.

So now I may have to order a few.

Bill Henning

Thank you

Loopy Byteloose wrote: »

The Propteus looks extremely nice and easy to use.

I even suspect that I could add an 8x ADC chip and find a way to have it take an just about any Arduino shield. .... loads of flexibility therein. The cost is reasonable as well.

So now I may have to order a few.

Using a stacking header, you could even mount a Raspberry Pi below Propteus.

There are also a number of additional prototyping boards designed to stack above/below Propteus:

http://www.mikronauts.com/proto/proteus/
http://www.mikronauts.com/proto/ucproto/
http://www.mikronauts.com/proto/minipro/

and of course

http://www.mikronauts.com/proto/schoolboard/

and

http://www.mikronauts.com/robot-zoo/roboprop/

Coming soon:

http://www.mikronauts.com/proto/ezaspieproto300/
http://www.mikronauts.com/proto/ezaspieproto600/

and more!

FYI,

1) I am discontinuing assembled & tested boards

2) I will be lowering RoboProp, SchoolBoard and SerPlug kit pricing RSN

(I found some better pricing on parts, and I am buying in larger quantities)

LoopyByteloose

Micronauts.com rocks! ! !
Your understanding of modularity and integrated features is way above par.

Bill Henning

Thank you

Loopy Byteloose wrote: »

Micronauts.com rocks! ! !
Your understanding of modularity and integrated features is way above par.

TC

Hugh wrote: »

I know they are supposed to be for prototyping and therefore subject to a bit of re-work, but my projects using Protoboards always end up looking like the nest of particularly untidy (i.e., probably teenage) bird.

Would anyone care to volunteer pictures of neatly-used Protoboards (from which I can blatantly steal good ideas and best practice!)?

Thanks
Hugh

I am working on some button boards for my reflow oven display. And I have been taking pictures to document my progress, and so when I look back years from now, I'll know why I did what I did.

When I get home from work tonight, I'll post a few.

Dave Matthews

I don't have a problem with untidy prototyped circuits as long as they work! Seriously I start a project trying to conserve as much real estate as possible, but eventually I add so much that I hadn't thought of or properly thought out that is usually ends up like a rat's nest. Back in the mid 1970's I did a lot of wire-wrapping protoboards, and the rat's nest appearance appalled the older panel builder types. But they did the job in a relative hurry and were easy to modify. Nowadays I use the same wire-wrap wire but without the special pins and sockets, just careful point to point soldering. A bit tedious but less expensive and they hold up surprisingly well.

I am grateful for this thread since it has educated me regarding the prop protoboard and other options, Thanks!

Dave KI4PSR

WBA Consulting

Here are a few of my projects using protoboards or similar setups

• My Thermistor Tester uses a protoboard and there are some good pictures on the thread for it.
• My Propeller Metronome uses perfboard, but shows how easy the basic Propeller circuit can be squeezed into a small amount of space
• My Propeller Based Reverse GeoCache Birthday project uses a proto board. Pictures were done after completion, so no bottomside pics are available.

Bill Henning

A couple of my projects were prototyped on the original protoboard (this was before I started manufacturing my own designs):

1) The initial Morpheus prototype consisted of a prop Proto Board and a generic prototyping board bolted onto it with the second prop, sram etc

2) My first Propeller based robot controller (distant ancestor of RoboProp and RoboPi) was a prop Proto Board with an 8x3 servo headers and an MCP3208 to read the Sharp distance sensor

Prophead100

Rather than try to eliminate the ugly factor, I try to work with it. I use thicker wires with distinct curves and intential colors in the insulation. That draws the eye away from the solder joints. Another trick is to carefully layout the board so the bridges between holes when needed are minimal and the components co-incidentally have pleasing shapes such as parrallel lines or stars.. After I ensure a good solder joint, sometimes it makes sense to go back in and smooth out or change the aesthetics of a particular spot. In the end, you might end up using a clear box because you like the result.

Prophead

See clock below on an older serial protoboard