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Radio Shack goofs versus online vendors — Parallax Forums

Radio Shack goofs versus online vendors

Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,185
edited 2014-01-31 05:37 in General Discussion
Hello!
Whilst searching for a perennial favorite of mine, a four place AA holder with a USB connection point and an on-off switch, I made a disturbing discovery. The thing is only available online from Radio Shack's crappy website. However it is available, also online and cheaper by as much as 57 cents difference between the online vendor and Radio Shack.

And it isn't Jameco. Its from a Texas based firm called BG Micro Electronics. I first found out about them while researching an allusive PowerPC based development board.

Said board was made up for probably a special series of purposes, and the quantity that wasn't sold by the creators found themselves available there. The company sold them out in record time, and naturally had no plans to try to get the vendor to make more if possible. I think the PowerPC processor in question was the PPC407 model. Or one of the numbers who rapidly found themselves becoming a target for the embedded systems racket.

Also they are also selling a collection of the rechargeable cells that are aimed to support the BOE and its BOE-Bot alter-ego.

This entry, "UR18650F/2000mAh Rechargeable Lithium ION By Sanyo-New Price-10/$17.50"

And the link (direct) is http://www.bgmicro.com/ur18650f-2000mah-rechargeable-lithium-ion-by-sanyo.aspx

They want $2.25 for one cell. The page describes how to buy in quantity.

Outside of being made by Sanyo (or so the site says) it looks the same as the one for Product #28984
http://www.parallax.com/product/28984

Obviously all of you are wondering where I am going with this, I'm certainly not traveling far afield, possibly through a snow covered one; I am bringing that battery holder up, because a lot of us plan on getting our Prop based boards to communicate with a Raspberry Pi device, and I'm not sure about having the Raspberry Pi sharing the powerplant that's serving the Prop board.

I've been trying to find that particular battery holder ever since the entire family of holders who contain switches and are covered were first announced by Radio Shack, and am singularly appalled by the site's continued cluttering up with irrelevant items. And that all of the holders except for that one happened to be available directly from a chosen store, and that one is always not available.

Ideally we need to get more Parallax items available at RS at all costs.:innocent:

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Comments

  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2014-01-30 02:49
    Phew, in all those words there are no links to the battery boxes. You must mean http://www.bgmicro.com/BH341USB.aspx and http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=22874846 Are you honestly singularly appalled by your disturbing discovery? :)

    Li-Ions look especially good if they are really Sanyos. Ten cells shipped is around $25.
  • RS_JimRS_Jim Posts: 1,766
    edited 2014-01-30 05:37
    Take the part number to your chosen store and order direct to you. No shipping charge and " D2U" orders will generate a stocking situation.
    Jim
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2014-01-30 05:42
    Those 18650 Li Ion cells are considerably larger than a AA size standard battery. They won't fit in an AA sized battery holder if that's what you were thinking. I didn't see where BGMicro mentioned the Boe-bot, though they did recommend them for flashlights and computers.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2014-01-30 06:11
    And 18650 cells are 3.7V, not 1.5V as AA. So it makes a lot of sense that they shouldn't fit.But that price of $2.25.. or even $1.75 in quantity. That's extremely suspicious. Good quality 18650 cells, even just 2000mAh, typically cost $15 a piece and upwards. You can find very low-quality 18650 batteries from China to a much lower price, but they can't compare with the real stuff. I'll buy made-in-Japan Panasonic cells for my gadgets. (Edit: I see there's an Ultrafire cell at the Parallax shop for $5.. Ultrafire is the cheap stuff. The more expensive $9 Tenergy cell is a better brand, but there are fake Tenergy cells out there too.. so be careful.)

    -Tor
  • Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,185
    edited 2014-01-30 07:34
    erco wrote: »
    Phew, in all those words there are no links to the battery boxes. You must mean http://www.bgmicro.com/BH341USB.aspx and http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=22874846 Are you honestly singularly appalled by your disturbing discovery? :)

    Li-Ions look especially good if they are really Sanyos. Ten cells shipped is around $25.


    Hello!
    Yes erco I do indeed mean that guy http://www.bgmicro.com/BH341USB.aspx I did not post it in that late night rant because I left it to the reader, you, as an exercise.

    I felt that given the circumstances, it wasn't necessary.

    Incidentally erco you win the prize for making that discovery. How fast can you be ready for a round trip to a desert planet for a six week stay?
  • Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,185
    edited 2014-01-30 07:41
    Tor wrote: »
    And 18650 cells are 3.7V, not 1.5V as AA. So it makes a lot of sense that they shouldn't fit.But that price of $2.25.. or even $1.75 in quantity. That's extremely suspicious. Good quality 18650 cells, even just 2000mAh, typically cost $15 a piece and upwards. You can find very low-quality 18650 batteries from China to a much lower price, but they can't compare with the real stuff. I'll buy made-in-Japan Panasonic cells for my gadgets. (Edit: I see there's an Ultrafire cell at the Parallax shop for $5.. Ultrafire is the cheap stuff. The more expensive $9 Tenergy cell is a better brand, but there are fake Tenergy cells out there too.. so be careful.)

    -Tor

    Hello!
    Depending on what you were typing that on, your laptop if you have one, has a battery box poking out of it. That battery box will be wearing Sanyo individual batteries in that format. As it happens sadly, there aren't many makers of that form factor. [And know I don't know who invented the chemistry behind the individual battery.]

    And I have here a BOE rig wearing a Li-ION battery rig in roughly the same format as its alter-ego the BOE-BOT would look, if it were wearing the servos and the chassis normally used for the purposes. That is its the BOE board with the battery holder mounted under it. It as it happens is looks to be the Tenergy or Ultrafire ones from Parallax directly.
  • Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,185
    edited 2014-01-30 07:43
    RDL2004 wrote: »
    Those 18650 Li Ion cells are considerably larger than a AA size standard battery. They won't fit in an AA sized battery holder if that's what you were thinking. I didn't see where BGMicro mentioned the Boe-bot, though they did recommend them for flashlights and computers.

    Hello!
    Close. I was seriously suggesting them as an alternate source for spare cells for the Boe-Bot's Li Ion holder. They did indeed recommend them for flashlights and even computers.
  • Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,185
    edited 2014-01-30 07:45
    RS_Jim wrote: »
    Take the part number to your chosen store and order direct to you. No shipping charge and " D2U" orders will generate a stocking situation.
    Jim

    Hello!
    Jim as it happens on my last visit to a Radio Shack store trying to find the thing, the chappie there who helped me out on the issue did suggest it. I pointed out that I normally buy such things directly, from the store, that is, and at the moment it wasn't needed. At the moment, I don't, but it does serve an interesting pointer. I'll consider your advice next time.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-01-30 08:22
    I did not post it in that late night rant because I left it to the reader, you, as an exercise.

    Just to be sure, that was a joke right?

    I felt that given the circumstances, it wasn't necessary.

    Why not?

    Do you know what type of regulator are in these battery boxes?

    Will the battery box output 5V if rechargeable cells are used? Four NiMH freshly charged are about 5.5V but after a while the voltage will drop below 5.0V. This voltage drop can make it very hard to get repeatable results from a robot. In order to get my cheap bot to perform a proper figure 8 I used Li-Ion cells (link to AA size cells I used ) in the holder with a switching regulator to get a consistent 5V.

    I like Radio Shack's 4 AA holder with a switch but if I could get a consistent 5V from the pack erco linked to, it might be worth the extra money to me.

    I'm inclined to think the best way to get 5V inexpensively is to use a single Li-Ion or LiPo cell with a switching boost regulator and USB type changer. Erco (and friends) have pointed out good deals on these last two devices several times.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-01-30 08:47
    Is this the same battery holder?

    If so, it's costs less than the other sources. I don't know how shipping compares. My bet is RS_Jim's suggestion to have it shipped to a local RS may be the least expensive option.

    According to the site linked above, the holder does not regulate alkaline cells down to 5V. My guess is there isn't a regulator in these holders and the USB connector is just for convenience but doesn't insure a 5V supply.

    I do agree that a lot of us would like to make battery operated projects and it would be really nice to have some system to easily provide a 5V source which could also easily be recharged.
  • Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,185
    edited 2014-01-30 08:55
    Duane Degn wrote: »
    Just to be sure, that was a joke right?

    Why not?

    Do you know what type of regulator are in these battery boxes?

    Will the battery box output 5V if rechargeable cells are used? Four NiMH freshly charged are about 5.5V but after a while the voltage will drop below 5.0V. This voltage drop can make it very hard to get repeatable results from a robot. In order to get my cheap bot to perform a proper figure 8 I used Li-Ion cells (link to AA size cells I used ) in the holder with a switching regulator to get a consistent 5V.

    I like Radio Shack's 4 AA holder with a switch but if I could get a consistent 5V from the pack erco linked to, it might be worth the extra money to me.

    I'm inclined to think the best way to get 5V inexpensively is to use a single Li-Ion or LiPo cell with a switching boost regulator and USB type changer. Erco (and friends) have pointed out good deals on these last two devices several times.

    Hello!
    We are talking about item number #28986 at http://www.parallax.com/product/28986 correct? Then yes soon after everything arrived, I promptly hit the site to identify everything. And downloaded a complete set of documents on what the board wears.

    As it happens the box erco linked to is the one I mentioned. And it is the one I've been bothering RS about. I have a line on a two AA holder with a 5 volt output step up circuit on it. [Similar to the Minty Boost one.] Currently however my external to the BOE board circuits are in fact the four AA holder with switch and an adapt-a-plug connector cable on it. Duane regarding erco, I was, ah, just messing with him, regarding everything. I did figure he'd be the one to go digging into the BG Micro site to find the actual link for the holder. So as it happens the big issue now is one of further discussions. I've made my point on all of this. I now invite further discussions until we all run out of steam.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2014-01-30 08:57
    Duane Degn wrote: »
    I do agree that a lot of us would like to make battery operated projects and it would be really nice to have some system to easily provide a 5V source which could also easily be recharged.

    @Duane: And to think I had you pegged for a 3.3V kinda guy.

    @Buck: Two of the more memorable excerpts from my college textbooks:

    1) It shall be left as an exercise to the reader to prove that...
    2) It shall be tacitly assumed that...

    I do like to sneak those in whenever possible.
  • Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,185
    edited 2014-01-30 08:57
    Duane Degn wrote: »
    Is this the same battery holder?

    If so, it's costs less than the other sources. I don't know how shipping compares. My bet is RS_Jim's suggestion to have it shipped to a local RS may be the least expensive option.

    According to the site linked above, the holder does not regulate alkaline cells down to 5V. My guess is there isn't a regulator in these holders and the USB connector is just for convenience but doesn't insure a 5V supply.

    I do agree that a lot of us would like to make battery operated projects and it would be really nice to have some system to easily provide a 5V source which could also easily be recharged.

    Hello!
    Actually Duane I don't know. It does look to be the same.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2014-01-30 09:05
    erco wrote: »
    @Duane: And to think I had you pegged for a 3.3V kinda guy.

    DD needs voltage for motive power......at his core(s), he's a 3.3v guy!! :smile:
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2014-01-30 09:15
    mindrobots wrote: »
    DD needs voltage for motive power......at his core(s), he's a 3.3v guy!! :smile:

    Yeah, maybe, but it shall be tacitly assumed that nobody needs regulated 5V for motive power. It shall be left as an exercise to the reader to prove that...
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2014-01-30 09:25
    That 4x AA holder with the USB connector is the stupidest thing I've seen in a while. That is accidental over-voltage damage just waiting to happen. BGMicro doesn't say a word about it. At least BatterySpace.com says:
    Note: Do not use Alkaline (non rechargeable) batteries as output is >6V and might damage USB device that cannot support a voltage >6V.
    of course, right above that, they describe it as:
    4 cells AA rechargeable/non rechargeable battery holder
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-01-30 09:26
    erco wrote: »
    Yeah, maybe, but it shall be tacitly assumed that nobody needs regulated 5V for motive power. It shall be left as an exercise to the reader to prove that...

    One needs regulated motive power to perform open loop navigation as discussed proved in this post.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2014-01-30 09:45
    Proven, or simply demonstrated in your post, my learned opponent? :)

    From my experience, it is quite possible to do accurate open loop navigation using stepper motors without a voltage regulator: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLdkKKMfUP0

    IIRC the 3pi was one of the first complete hobby bots to regulate DC motor voltage up to 9.25 volts: http://www.pololu.com/product/975/
  • Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,185
    edited 2014-01-30 09:59
    Hello!
    We are talking about item number #28986 at http://www.parallax.com/product/28986 correct? Then yes soon after everything arrived, I promptly hit the site to identify everything. And downloaded a complete set of documents on what the board wears.

    As it happens the box erco linked to is the one I mentioned. And it is the one I've been bothering RS about. I have a line on a two AA holder with a 5 volt output step up circuit on it. [Similar to the Minty Boost one.] Currently however my external to the BOE board circuits are in fact the four AA holder with switch and an adapt-a-plug connector cable on it. Duane regarding erco, I was, ah, just messing with him, regarding everything. I did figure he'd be the one to go digging into the BG Micro site to find the actual link for the holder. So as it happens the big issue now is one of further discussions. I've made my point on all of this. I now invite further discussions until we all run out of steam.


    Hello!
    The same company Sparkfun, also sells battery packs that are pre-configured to produce 5 volts via USB via the same chemistry as their regular battery packs who produce 3.7 volts. Here https://www.sparkfun.com/categories/54?sort_by=price_asc&per_page=64 is the full listing, of them, [all 64] and as you can see they also sell a variety of holders and other style packs.

    Prior to the arrival of that BOE board box I had thought of rigging something with two of the 3.7 volt packs in series to power one of the BOE units. The one I had in mind was https://www.sparkfun.com/products/339 and I had even bought two with those intentions. Then the reason for it all just quit. Now I still have them, but also the BOE one with it bolted to it. That is I thought of doing it that way until discovering that SPF also sells this widget:
    https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10968

    Now what group?
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-01-30 10:07
    Didn't we already decide that RS was doomed?
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-01-30 10:10
    You can get the boost regulator for much less on ebay.

    Now I'm getting D
  • Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,185
    edited 2014-01-30 10:28
    Heater. wrote: »
    Didn't we already decide that RS was doomed?

    Hello!
    Nope. Just resembling Frankenstein. (Either of the movies including the Mel Brooks one.)
  • Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,185
    edited 2014-01-30 10:30
    Duane Degn wrote: »
    You can get the boost regulator for much less on ebay.

    Now I'm getting D
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-01-30 10:35
    Buck,

    I seem to remember that Dr. Frankenstein was OK.

    It was the monster he made that was a bit of a handful.


  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2014-01-30 14:01
    Duane Degn wrote: »
    You can get the boost regulator for much less on ebay.

    NOBODY pays retail on my watch, Pal.

    99 cents! http://www.ebay.com/itm/181293238414
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2014-01-30 14:08
    erco wrote: »
    NOBODY pays retail on my watch, Pal.

    99 cents! http://www.ebay.com/itm/181293238414

    Let's see, $.99 built, shipped and delivered to my door!

    Once again, how do dey do it!!! :smile:
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-01-30 14:16
    mindrobots wrote: »
    Let's see, $.99 built, shipped and delivered to my door!

    Once again, how do dey do it!!!

    Courtesy of the Chinese government, of course.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2014-01-30 15:00
    I liked that ebay item.. but it says 'does not ship to Norway'. Ok. Then I see, 'Ships Worldwide', but there's a list of exclusions.. it's a very long list, and it includes Europe in one go. From what I can tell it then lists up just about every country and region everywhere else. So that's a funny Worldwide.. I wonder why the seller couldn't just list the one or two countries they ship to instead.. maybe I can order from Japan, I'm still looking through the list and it could still be hidden there. Taiwan, China and Australia are of course also excempted from Worldwide. :)
  • Too_Many_ToolsToo_Many_Tools Posts: 765
    edited 2014-01-30 16:10
    Heater. wrote: »
    Didn't we already decide that RS was doomed?

    Not yet...the vultures are still circling.

    RS announces its numbers in late February so we are held in suspense till then.

    Did I mention a RS employee GAVE me a discontinued Grundig SW radio for $1...just to get it out the store...when I stopped to pick up more clearance Panavises....the bargains never cease!
  • Too_Many_ToolsToo_Many_Tools Posts: 765
    edited 2014-01-30 16:11
    Tor wrote: »
    I liked that ebay item.. but it says 'does not ship to Norway'. Ok. Then I see, 'Ships Worldwide', but there's a list of exclusions.. it's a very long list, and it includes Europe in one go. From what I can tell it then lists up just about every country and region everywhere else. So that's a funny Worldwide.. I wonder why the seller couldn't just list the one or two countries they ship to instead.. maybe I can order from Japan, I'm still looking through the list and it could still be hidden there. Taiwan, China and Australia are of course also excempted from Worldwide. :)

    Their wording is meant to make the biggest impression on the buyer..never mind the fine print...shipping WORLD WIDE sounds more impressive than we ship to a couple of countries.
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