Wanted: Private Robot Moon Lander Ideas for NASA
erco
Posts: 20,256
http://news.yahoo.com/wanted-private-robot-moon-lander-ideas-nasa-114459660.html
If NASA runs their idea submission program like Parallax, the winners each get one of the Moon Landers shipped free to their home.
Seriously, has NASA really run out of ideas? Are they hoping that someone will randomly come up with an ingenious solution that they haven't come up with yet? I guess it doesn't hurt to ask, but jeepers it sounds like embarrasing fodder for a Letterman/Leno comedy monologue. They don't want and find out that Google got there first.
I vaguely recall a recent aerospace effort (1990's or newer) to look at going back to the moon, just as Apollo did in 1969-72. They looked at dozens of "new improved" vehicle combinations using "smarter technology" and new materials. Their conclusion? They couldn't find anything better than the Apollo engineers came up with using slide rules and Friden mechanical calculators. The horn rim glasses & bow tie set really had their act together, as the success of the entire Apollo program (especially Apollo 13) proved.
If NASA runs their idea submission program like Parallax, the winners each get one of the Moon Landers shipped free to their home.
Seriously, has NASA really run out of ideas? Are they hoping that someone will randomly come up with an ingenious solution that they haven't come up with yet? I guess it doesn't hurt to ask, but jeepers it sounds like embarrasing fodder for a Letterman/Leno comedy monologue. They don't want and find out that Google got there first.
I vaguely recall a recent aerospace effort (1990's or newer) to look at going back to the moon, just as Apollo did in 1969-72. They looked at dozens of "new improved" vehicle combinations using "smarter technology" and new materials. Their conclusion? They couldn't find anything better than the Apollo engineers came up with using slide rules and Friden mechanical calculators. The horn rim glasses & bow tie set really had their act together, as the success of the entire Apollo program (especially Apollo 13) proved.
Comments
Government leadership -- or lack, thereof -- starts at the top.
Seriously though, for weight considerations, electrostatic motors are much lighter and easier to construct than big and bulky magnetic rotor motors, and can spin at several thousand rpm so they could be geared down to do actual work.
Amen to that... it still amazes me to this day what was accomplished then. Today, however, I cringe and feel a slight tinge of fear that we may never be as great as that again. We're far too busy trying to tear apart the "other side", for their beliefs or whatever, to really rally and focus with the unity and vision required to do great things. So many small minds today that magnify their petty ideas into a self-perceived greatness. So sad.
But won't the additional weight of the transmission/reduction gear, structures and required special lube materials pretty much offset the reduced weight of the motor?
And regarding the slide rule set, they never had to look for batteries or wall warts to recharge their calculators either. The yellow "backlighting" on the Picket 1010 slide rule was quite bright enough.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV1hH56cdcM
xanatos, You do realize that the space race and the resulting man on the moon was a cold war race predicated on tearing apart the other side for their beliefs. That competition and fear is exactly what made every body rally and focus with unity and vision.
The Russians putting up Sputnik scared everybody.
Not saying that's how the human race should be but here it is.
Heater, the problem is the political elite and media pick the candidate and then those on the bottom that are dependent on government swing the vote to whoever offers more handouts.
The typical person that actually holds down a job, pays taxes, and obeys the laws has little impact on who gets elected.
As far as conflict, the problem now is that the conflict is internal.
C.W.
Actually, this is a great idea. Instead going with the lowest bidder like most government contracts, they open up to the rolling sea of independent inventors. NASA crowd sourcing might make some interesting results.
Would there be any problems with electrostatic moon dust? http://science1.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/30mar_moonfountains/
According to those whose opinions I greatly respect (I am thinking of an engineer whose name you would recognize) the launching of Sputnik scared the living daylights out of the United States...I would say it had the same effect that 9/11 incident has had on the United States in the last decade.
The world had just come off a recent world war, nuclear arms were spouting like weeds and our adversary was on record "to bury us"...that motivation if I have ever saw it.
In the past I have had the honor of knowing a number of those engineers who were responsible for the Moon landing. These were people who committed their lives to a purpose that I admire still today...peaceful use of space.
The saga of Apollo 13 is a testimony to how no one achieves anything alone...it is always on the shoulders of others.
The Challenger incident is a painful reminder of what happens when scientists and engineers are not listened to.
FWIW...of the government agencies I have dealt with in the past, NASA has always been the best when it comes to listening to new ideas...and promoting them. Their publications should be required reading in schools.
The biggest problem I see is that the Country really doesn't know what it wants to do in space...and the budget problems that NASA is having shows this. For them to ask for ideas is a great sign that they are willing to do what the public wants...what more could you ask for?
You do have a point, but as CW stated above, the conflict is now internal. Remember the old "house divided against itself cannot stand" quote? Well. here in the good old USA, we're doing a pretty good job of that division thing.
Eventually, we'll come to a point where it'll be "a planet divided against itself...", but for now, if we can't get our own local house in order pretty soon, we'll be only a remembrance in history books as a land in transition to... who knows.
FWIW, I was run off the road a few years ago by a guy in a pickup truck who yelled some very obscene things at me as he went by, finger flying. Why? Because I had the audacity to express my political opinion in a very respectful, inoffensive bumper sticker. Apparently, the American Ideal of Freedom of Speech has come to mean, for some, freedom of speech for only those among us who agree with our views.
Dangerous times.
That is sad news, especially at CNY. They (whoever "they" are) have put an interesting PR spin on the rover by personifying it and publishing pseudo-tweets (surely just Earth-generated heroic quotes) to followers.
http://news.yahoo.com/chinese-fans-39-jade-rabbit-39-rover-await-082040021.html
"If this journey must come to an early end, I am not afraid," said the six-wheeled, solar-powered rover. "Whether or not the repairs are successful, I believe even my malfunctions will provide my masters with valuable information and experience."
Just another Chinese tale of a failed marriage and disgruntled wife (all the great tales seem to have this element - true love gone bad, or another - true love denied). She is up there somewhere with the Jade Rabbit, having stolen the pills to protect the Chinese people from a despotic ruler.
"Would there be any problems with electrostatic moon dust?" - Not if the motor were self contained to prevent contaminants. Might even be able to use the phenomenon as an advantage.
Ah, the old moon dust-powered electrostatic motor scam, eh? Third time I've fallen for that this week. Sorry about that, Chief.
If you do that, I will make a fusion-core, differential drive Theo Jansen Strandbeest walker.
Well maybe not fusion core.
All I need is this thermos.
Note: The tower is not part of the motor and is a little misleading in the video... the tower is actually a 350kV Marx generator that happens to run on the same power source I was testing the motor with.
Motor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV1hH56cdcM
erco,
If I build the "electrostatic drive RC car" of course it will have to have a Propeller for the brains you realize. ... talk about a harsh ESD environment ... Hmmm
It would be nice to have a permanent site for this project. We could learn alot from the threads, in creating the lander.
This is the start of an electrostatic motor design using a standard coke can as the rotor.
- One of the end caps that attach to the can need to be re-printed (slightly off center)
- The rotor 'can' needs to be covered in something like overhead transparency film or standard 2 inch wide packing tape strategically placed with appropriate overlap to prevent arcing when running as a motor
- The ribs still need to be designed and printed (Next Tuesday or this weekend at the makerspace)... the ribs need to be an even number and alternate with the DC supply's polarity.
- Each end-cap feeds through an 8mm I.D. roller skate bearing and terminates with a HEX keyed shaft to make it easy to attach to future prints ... i.e. planetary gear reduction stage.
Theory of operation:
The electrostatic motor creates a standing wave electrical charge where negative charges deposited "ion-sprayed" on the rotor are attracted to the adjacent positive terminal... likewise the depletion "electron absorption" of electrons from the rotor leaves the rotor positively charged and attracted to the adjacent negative terminal. The Rotor 'can' itself becomes charged to 1/2 of the High-Voltage DC supply. Think of two capacitors in series ... the center tap of the two capacitors would be the rotor, and the transparency film or packing tape mentioned earlier become the dielectric. The outer most capacitor plates consists of the alternating 'ribs' that are connected to the DC supply.