Need A board house
TC
Posts: 1,019
Hello all,
Where I work we have specialized testing equipment that sometimes needs custom made boards. Before we were doing them by hand, and that's OK for one or two. But right now we need more than that. I personaly use OHSpark (will continue to use them), and have been extremely happy with them. So I tried to add them as a new suppler. My place of work requires paperwork to be filled by the company we want to use. But OHSpark has been to busy to fill out the paperwork.
So I need to try to find another board house, that has comparable prices. Anyone know of a good board house that will work with a very large company?
Thanks
TC
Where I work we have specialized testing equipment that sometimes needs custom made boards. Before we were doing them by hand, and that's OK for one or two. But right now we need more than that. I personaly use OHSpark (will continue to use them), and have been extremely happy with them. So I tried to add them as a new suppler. My place of work requires paperwork to be filled by the company we want to use. But OHSpark has been to busy to fill out the paperwork.
So I need to try to find another board house, that has comparable prices. Anyone know of a good board house that will work with a very large company?
Thanks
TC
Comments
-Phil
I will have to check them out tomorrow when I get to work. Thanks
If you share ANY .PCB file from your computer it could potentially have your login email AND password saved right inside the .pcb file if you entered it into advanced circuits "pcbArtist" program to do a online order or quote.
This is a big issue because when you open that pcb file it doesn't make you verify your password.
If someone shares their .pcb file without knowing that it contains the login info(lets say they help a forum user out with a starter pcb design that they created in their pcb artitst program), well pcb artist actually saves your email and password in plain text right inside the .pcb file, this info can be used to login to YOUR account on www.4pcb.com and then someone can see all this info about you:
Your address, name, current 4pcb.com password, order history, quotes on pcb's without orders, PREVIOUS PCB ORDERS WITH complete shipping to, bill to and all the like info inside each previous pcb order.
And last but not least, your CREDIT CARD, in FULL, can be viewed once someone has that .pcb file(which you never knew it stored your email and password for 4pcb.com)
DO NOT SHARE ANY .PCB file from "PCB ARTIST" without doing a simple NOTEPAD edit, search for your login email and/or password, if they were saved into the file, they will show up in FIND.
I couldn't believe it when I first noticed this.
Somehow I had a template from either a current or ex-coworker that had all its pcb parts and board deleted, but the pcb file was saved for "Design rules".
Well it also saved his login info and when I went to submit the file, it logged me into HIS ACCOUNT, and submitted the file to HIS ACCOUNT. NOT MINE.
I was fully able to navigate all of his personal info... like I said, current password, address, full creditcard number, all previous pcb orders, and all shipping/billing addresses associated with each order.
My jaw dropped to the floor on how easy it was to not know you just gave all this info by sharing the simple innocent .PCB file from PCBArtist.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
Why advanced circuits can't do that also, I do not know. (really a litte mention about it in the manual, or even on the window where you enter the email and password to BEGIN WITH.
Talk about a horrible security breach. The .PCB file containing the full email and password in plain text.
Apparently they never thought people would "GASP" share a .PCB file with ANYONE.... EVER....
That's a very serious security breach. Have you alerted Advanced Circuits about it?
-Phil
This problem goes back many years, apparently.. from the looks of my pcb files. I did a grep on a directory full of pcbs and many had ".com"
Some had full login info even when they weren't submitted to 4pcb.com. They had it because I entered it into pcb artist at one point.
When I logged in to the 4pcb.com website after submitting the design using pcbartist, I noticed the email was not correct.
So I clicked back to my4pcb.com and thats when I crapped my pants.
Somehow I was logged into someone elses account, either a person or a virus injected, or loaded my pcb files with login data that was not mine.
Worst case they stole my design, one which is about to be OPENSOURCE anyway.. HAHAHAHA.. suckers..
Anyway, whoever this account belonged to, I was able to see all the previous orders and from the looks of it, all the orders were from people that were victims to the same false login info. Advanced Circuits has the idenity of a pcb theif/virus maker, and so far they said the account is not in their system, implying they deleted it.
Most companies would rather erase the evidence they were involved in theft due to their method of storing login data, than admit fault and deal with the lawsuits.
I wish I would have taken down all the names of all the people who made orders through that email, so i could have warned those engineers.
I specifically remember one was from Motorola.
And apparently Advanced Circuits just deleted the account, instead of trying to discover the id of the theif.
It seems virus/malware/spyware creators are now targeting files, and the like for vunerabilities like this one in PCB files. (DUH?)
I think this account had over 30 designs, each having different bill to and ship to info all available.. home address, credit cards(in full)...
And on top of that, my design was submitted to someones pcb account that I don't know, don't have access to, and don't know what they are going to do with it now.
The viral propigation of login data into and out of the .pcb file/ advanced circuits program is bidirectional: i.e. if its inside one it will propigate to the other, and you won't even know it.
This is $%^&#@* NUTS.
At this point I can only leave it up to the ghostbusters.... This is way over my head. You better change your 4pcb.com passwords.
This is one damn ugly STAY PUFT MARSHMALLOW MAN.
Good luck Advanced Circuits, and PcbArtist, you are gonna need it.
Clock Loop, that's weird about the pcbArtist files. I've always sent them Gerbers and place new orders via their freedfm service (in part to get the discount!). Never have tried pcbArtist. 4pcb customer service has always been great.
Another house for short fast runs is http://www.pcbunlimited.com/. They have a bit different set of options and pricing structure.
Thank you, I will have to check them out and get a quote.
I use OSHpark for my personal stuff, and I have been VERY happy. I tried to use them for my work, but our purchasing department requires paperwork to be filled out (confidentiality, taxes, etc..). And after months of asking OSHpark when we could get the papers back, we would just get a reply from OSHpark saying "We are working on it. It is on our to do list.". I just think it is because OSHpark does not want to deal with a multi-billion dollar company. I completely understand why OSHpark would not want to deal with my work place. That would go against the "Open Source Hardware" mentality.
Personally, I will continue to use OSHpark for many more years to come. I have been very happy with the boards I have gotten, and I have been very happy with the price.
http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2014/02/12/hardware-hangout-with-james-laen-neal-from-osh-park-video/
OSHpark's 4 layer specs are really impressive. 10 mil via holes, 18 mil via diameters (4 mil annular rings), 5 mil track and space, and gold ENIG of course. All in whatever size board you need.
.
Their very last email they sent me is ...
My reply:
At what point did you plan on telling the users?
Perhaps its high time I get a copy of all my gerbers I have ordered, and leave.
(P.S. I did a order that got me a coaster, but the order was so messed up I had to reject 90% of the pcbs, it was cut on 032 thickness, and the pcb piece they used was so badly bent that it messed up the pcb shape to copper layer, the copper touches the pcb cut. HAHAHA They wouldn't let me return the pcbs, even when I sent them photos of the failed. The sales people acted like they didn't know what they were looking at, and the people who cut the damn thing aren't going to out themselves. So thats how they deal with problems over at 4pcb.com, they send you to the very person responsible for the screwup and then let that person battle the customer over the problem. Needless to say, they get to be masters at telling the customer that the screwup is within advertised tolerance, they even throw numbers at you that make no sense, and then they get going on oh, well the machine has a bit of slop, so that makes up for that small error.. etc..
Instead of just figuring out a way to make both people happy, Advanced Circuits, makes themselves happy by eliminating the customer support, they make you try to battle it out with the shop guys.
In the end I was told that there is no problem and the design will be exactly the same if I return them for a reorder. (implying they will just re-box the pcbs) I gave up. Lost a G.
Advanced circuits is only good for smaller pcbs of regular FR4 063. Do NOT order a 7inch square 032 material pcb from them.
If its messed up, they will battle you over it because 032 material with 2oz copper isn't cheap.
It turns out the reason I had someone elses login info in my computer is because a piece of malware/virus was programmed to put different login info in my actual pcb file.
That way when you login, you submit the file to someone elses account, and even when you make the order, it won't be obvious you are in someone else's account, unless you notice it didn't remember your name/shipping/card etc...
I mentioned that my pcb was submitted to the theifs account, and they ignored it completely, and tried to say that the account dosen't exist, when I saw the account details with my own two eyes.
I don't even know what to do at this point. I tried to repeat the process, but either 4pcb.com deleted the account, or the password was changed.
But I still have the email of the theif. Nothing turns up on google, and no profile info is associated with the email.
Seems like I found a legit in the wild virus/malware that knows to inject login data for 4pcb.com into .PCB files, so the theif can then download the gerbers.
You'd think a few guys over at motorola would like to know about this. Its too bad I wasn't more snoopy, and realize what I had stumbled into.
Im sure a lawyer over at motorola would love to talk to me.
Thats what got me, the bill to, and ship to address were ALL different, on every design that was in the account, and some pretty big company names were used.
I suspect that 4pcb.com knows about this problem, and its epidemic.
Malware, infecting pcb files with login info that puts the design into WHO THE HELL KNOWS whos account when you submit the design
Thats probably why they deleted the criminals 4pcb.com account right away and denied that it existed. (thats destruction of evidence)
Because they know of this huge screwup/complete total secuirty vunerability.
All because PcbArtist puts the 4pcb.com login into into the .PCB file. (and not tell anyone its doing this either)
All you have to work with is an email address of the theif, their 4pcb.com password, and the guys over at advanced circuits.