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Would it be possible to have one connector for everything mobile? — Parallax Forums

Would it be possible to have one connector for everything mobile?

xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
edited 2013-11-28 14:34 in General Discussion
Just got a new phone, and just got that sinking feeling all the perfectly good chargers I have will not plug into it.

Would it be possible to make a connector with two separate pins that never change for power?

Take USB for example. Knowing that USB will bet faster and faster, why can't the connector just start with way more pins than needed? Then two pins could be always be power and never change pin assignments. At least then it you had an outdated phone you could still charge it. Maybe provisions can be made for data at lower speeds as well.

We have the wire and cable technology to future proof a USB cable for a long time to come, why can't that be done with the connector.

Comments

  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,173
    edited 2013-11-27 14:53
    Yes, already done - hopefully, your new phone uses Micro USB-B ?

    - see
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_External_Power_Supply


    I think that is expanding to chargers, and up to 2A ?
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,451
    edited 2013-11-27 15:15
    Yes uUSB is pretty much the standard now outside of Apple's product line. Every Android phone I've seen lately, and even my last now 5 year old LG brand dumbphone, all use it so the chargers are common and they can all charge from any computer. Some of the cheaper dumbphones might not use it because of not needing the data link but I think that's getting rare, since almost everything has at least a camera in it now anyway.
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,451
    edited 2013-11-27 15:24
    xanadu wrote: »
    Take USB for example. Knowing that USB will bet faster and faster, why can't the connector just start with way more pins than needed?

    This doesn't future-proof anything. Pin counts have been decreasing toward 2 in every interface space. Improvements are realized by making better cables to preserve signal integrity and better drivers that can multiplex and decode crazy fast bit rates. I seem to recall seeing an article that suggested USB 3.0 would be optical for data instead of copper.

    Remember when USB first came out, the first thing you absolutely had to use it for, when it was still way too flaky for most other uses, keyboards and mice were still PS/2, and USB flash drives were unknown was printers. USB succeeded there because it replaced Centronics, a cable that needed at least 16 conductors, with a new cable that needed only four.
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2013-11-27 15:31
    jmg wrote: »
    Yes, already done -

    That explains the RPi and the LaunchPad boards from TI. It seemed an odd and arbitrary power connection to me. Until now. And if it still does, I can't blame RPi or TI. :)
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2013-11-27 15:34
    It's the new iPhone. I have to have an iPhone because of work but it's also really nice for aviation apps. I'm not a fanboy but I don't have many complaints about it either.

    It has a lightning connector, I do not think it is compatible with Micro USB. I remember reading uUSB "wasn't good enough". I suppose there is a lot of IP surrounding connectors like Apple's Lightning connector and they wouldn't license it anyway.

    If just seems every device should be able to physically plug into any USB cable and draw power, even if it is older USB spec power. The shape and size of the connector wouldn't have to change so frequently if the connector was designed to accommodate future stuff. DC barrel jacks take up too much room in the device so here's a pile of cables for your hall closet...
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2013-11-27 15:51
    localroger wrote: »
    This doesn't future-proof anything. Pin counts have been decreasing toward 2 in every interface space. Improvements are realized by making better cables to preserve signal integrity and better drivers that can multiplex and decode crazy fast bit rates. I seem to recall seeing an article that suggested USB 3.0 would be optical for data instead of copper.

    Remember when USB first came out, the first thing you absolutely had to use it for, when it was still way too flaky for most other uses, keyboards and mice were still PS/2, and USB flash drives were unknown was printers. USB succeeded there because it replaced Centronics, a cable that needed at least 16 conductors, with a new cable that needed only four.

    Well that changes my view a lot then. I thought that we were already at the limits of copper with the current cables we have. I know that with computer networking the only time specs come into play is on a long run. I would think cables shorter than a few feet can be pretty bad before you see issues with bandwidth. 1200mhz for networking is insane. a 6' patch cable on a gigabit network doesn't need 1.2ghz of bandwidth. Maybe I'm just used to Ethernet and not USB...
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,451
    edited 2013-11-27 16:21
    Xanadu, the specs for things like USB and firewire are ridiculously tight compared to Ethernet. For example, designers are cautioned to make sure that the lengths of the two data copper traces from the driver chip to the connector are the same length, even if it means making one of them follow a snakelike zigzag path -- the spec actually recommends minimum radii for arranging this -- because the transit time across a few inches of copper trace can affect the signal. It really is crazy.

    As for the iPhone, you can lay that change straight at the doorstep of Apple. The EU is about to mandate that all phones support uUSB for charging precisely so chargers won't keep going in the dumpster, and scuttlebut is that Apple is having a conniption over it and may refuse to support the uUSB port they're forced to add for anything *but* charging. They have locked up their own power connector with a couple of patents so nobody else can clone it, and are clinging to that as a way to force you into their own line of power peripherals.

    Meanwhile, the uUSB charger from my old dumbphone works fine with my new Android phone, so I now have two chargers, which is good because the dumbphone battery lasted 2 weeks but the smartphone is toast within a day if it doesn't live on an outlet.
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2013-11-27 17:08
    I read about the EU trying to do away with proprietary connectors years ago, I didn't know anything was actually done.

    Inductance charging would really be nice, and InfiniBand speed wifi. No cables needed at all :)
  • PoundSign2PoundSign2 Posts: 129
    edited 2013-11-27 17:56
    Yes, oddly enough the... UNIVERSAL serial bus
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-11-27 18:14
    Don't let localroger fool you. His new all-latching-relay supercomputer uses his proprietary new power connector just patented and trademarked yesterday. In the foreseeable future, he is the Steve Jobs of the relay supercomputer and power connector world. Be nice to him!
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,451
    edited 2013-11-27 20:55
    DARN YOU ERCO you are worse than those meddling kids.
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2013-11-27 23:17
    So the EU wants everyone to use uUSB for charging conenctor to reduce the landfill of old chargers(eventually)...

    What a pity, then, that all the Phones With an uUSB conenctor still comes With a charger included...

    Of course, I use the charger that came With my iPhone5 to also recharge my Samsung 'droid phone, and my Nintendo 3DS...
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2013-11-27 23:35
    My iPhone 5 came with a plugpack charger with the full size USB connector on it, and a lightning to USB cable (nice little cable, not fiddly like the uUSB and no risk of plugging it in backwards). There are extra pins on the lightning connector for other things such as video, so a uUSB connector not only will no fit, but it does not have enough pins.
    I can plug my iPhone into my laptop with the supplied cable and charge my iPhone, or transfer photos, etc.

    BTW its my first iPhone and I cannot wait to get an iPad Mini or iPad Air with internet - I have a Motorola Xoom on Android and don't like it at all, and there are no more updates either. I don't care that Apple have locked it down, in fact for me I love the fact because I don't require virus software.
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2013-11-28 13:35
    Gadgetman wrote: »
    So the EU wants everyone to use uUSB for charging conenctor to reduce the landfill of old chargers(eventually)...

    What a pity, then, that all the Phones With an uUSB conenctor still comes With a charger included...

    Of course, I use the charger that came With my iPhone5 to also recharge my Samsung 'droid phone, and my Nintendo 3DS...


    exactly
    and on the same point . I dont care what the phone uses for a cord . I see uUSB as a hindrance on the phone side .

    The EU program needs to focus on the charger its self not some dinky cord .

    I feel all phone up stream cords need to be Full USB A . just like how I5 and the android gear is made now

    the phone side of things can be what ever! .......
  • john_sjohn_s Posts: 369
    edited 2013-11-28 14:10
    To meet that spec I wonder what AWG stranded wire size is required to carry 5V at 2A over say 3ft at temp up to 40degC?
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2013-11-28 14:34
    What the heck is a charger?? I use my desktop at home and my Eee PC when on the road to keep my cell phone charged. This way I only need the uUSB cable and not the charger. Just one less item to carry when traveling or to lose when at home!!
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