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On Sale for it's old Price! — Parallax Forums

On Sale for it's old Price!

Mike CookMike Cook Posts: 829
edited 2013-10-02 13:35 in General Discussion
http://www.parallax.com/product/40000

P8X32A Propeller QuickStart

Looks like the new regular price is $34.99

Comments

  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2013-09-27 13:58
    Hmmm, and the event listed is next month, not this month...

    C.W.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2013-09-27 14:00
    That new price is over the VAT limit for my country.. which means that with charges etc. it'll now be effectively $73 with shipping. Looks like I won't be buying any more QS boards (:
    I have a few already fortunately. But I feel like an era is over.

    - Tor
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2013-09-27 14:04
    To bad it's not on sale at its oldest price. The QS was $20 when it first came out.

    I think the Propeller Project Board will probably be my most frequently purchased Propeller board in the future.
  • YanomaniYanomani Posts: 1,524
    edited 2013-09-27 14:54
    Tor wrote: »
    That new price is over the VAT limit for my country.. which means that with charges etc. it'll now be effectively $73 with shipping. Looks like I won't be buying any more QS boards (:
    I have a few already fortunately. But I feel like an era is over.

    - Tor

    Tor

    May God bless and provide eternal and wealthy life for your country's tax authorities!

    In my country, even the flat USPS international fee for a <1kg pack is added to the goods price, plus insurance, if any, before the almost 60% import tax, plus sales tax (your VAT), if it does apply (it depends on destination, within Brazilian territory), is calculated, and sure as the Sun rising at each new morning, is charged right at my country's Mail Service Office, pending the day varying US$ to Brl exchange rate, in cash, no cards (credit or debit) NOR checks allowed!

    Today's market exchange rate closed at R$ 2.2571 x US$ 1.00.

    A real application example can clarify any remaining concerns:
    (I sure do know that everyone will do the right maths, but in the intention to not being misunderstood, in no way)

    Price tag for some merchandise: US$ 100.00
    Weight of the packed goods: < 1.00 kg
    USPS Express Mail from California to Brazil: US$ 38.00

    Total in American Dollars: US$ 138.00

    **********************************************************************

    Converted to Brl (x 2.2571): R$ 311.48

    Import tax (60%): R$ 186.89

    Sales tax (does not currently applies to my state): R$ 0.00
    (can change at any moment, no way to predict)

    Tax amount, CASH, paid at the Post Office: R$ 186.89

    Total cost, in BRL: (311.48 + 186.89) => R$ 498.37

    Total cost, in US$: (498.37 / 2.2571) => US$ 220.80

    Chocking!!!!!!!!!!!

    Believe it, or not!

    Yanomani
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-09-28 11:58
    Well, ordering from Brazil or Norway makes ordering from Taiwan look very reasonable. It is mostly the international shipping that makes orders expensive. So I try to buy a lot and order less frequently.
  • 4x5n4x5n Posts: 745
    edited 2013-09-28 19:57
    Boo on the price increase!!

    My guess is that they're looking to move sales to the Activity Board. At $50 it's a much better deal!
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2013-09-29 07:13
    Unless you really need the small size, there doesn't seem to be any reason to buy a QuickStart now. The Activity Board adds a whole lot more capability for just another $15. For basic hacking around, I agree with Duane:
    I think the Propeller Project Board will probably be my most frequently purchased Propeller board in the future.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2013-09-29 09:29
    RDL2004 wrote: »
    Unless you really need the small size, there doesn't seem to be any reason to buy a QuickStart now. The Activity Board adds a whole lot more capability for just another $15. For basic hacking around, I agree with Duane:
    One reason to continue buying the Quickstart is that there are a number of boards available that plug into it. For example, the Parallax Human Interface Board and the Propeller Powered VGA+256 and the QuickPlayer Extreme. The RamPage2 board will plug into the Quickstart and I believe there are a number of others. I think there will continue to be a demand for the Quickstart board until these products are re-engineered to work with some other board.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2013-09-29 11:21
    David Betz wrote: »
    One reason to continue buying the Quickstart is that there are a number of boards available that plug into it. For example, the Parallax Human Interface Board and the Propeller Powered VGA+256 and the QuickPlayer Extreme. The RamPage2 board will plug into the Quickstart and I believe there are a number of others. I think there will continue to be a demand for the Quickstart board until these products are re-engineered to work with some other board.

    The Project Board has holes down one side of the board matching the QuickStart header. The add on boards might not look as nice on the Project Board but they should work just fine.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2013-09-29 12:14
    Duane Degn wrote: »
    The Project Board has holes down one side of the board matching the QuickStart header. The add on boards might not look as nice on the Project Board but they should work just fine.
    Ah, that's good to know. Thanks for pointing it out!
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2013-09-29 13:36
    The QS are nice because they are fairly bare bones, you don't have to work around stuff you don't need.

    I don't know the sales numbers or what Parallax's goals are, but to me there is too much churn in the board line up.

    C.W.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2013-09-29 14:09
    ctwardell wrote: »
    The QS are nice because they are fairly bare bones, you don't have to work around stuff you don't need.

    I don't know the sales numbers or what Parallax's goals are, but to me there is too much churn in the board line up.

    C.W.
    Maybe this is one advantage that the Arduino has had. They have stuck with the same board form factor for many years so add-on boards don't constantly become obsolete when a new main board gets released.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-09-30 06:24
    I agree that the board churn is a bit of a problem. I always preferred the Propeller Platform (PP) form factor over the Quick Start. The reason is that the PP supported boards on both sides, and had two rows of headers to enable stacking boards. But the Quick Start was so much cheaper that it effectively killed the Propeller Platform, but now that cost advantage is gone. You can still buy the PP from Wulfden, so here's hoping it makes a comeback.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2013-09-30 07:45
    Martin_H wrote: »
    I agree that the board churn is a bit of a problem. I always preferred the Propeller Platform (PP) form factor over the Quick Start. The reason is that the PP supported boards on both sides, and had two rows of headers to enable stacking boards. But the Quick Start was so much cheaper that it effectively killed the Propeller Platform, but now that cost advantage is gone. You can still buy the PP from Wulfden, so here's hoping it makes a comeback.
    Yes, the Propeller Platform is a nice standard, especially the DNA module from http://mghdesigns.com/propeller/dna.html.

    Edit: Didn't Parallax endorse the Propeller Platform interconnect at one point?
    Edit2: Never mind. I did a forum search and couldn't find anything about this. Must have been in a dream. :-(
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2013-09-30 08:26
    I remember a similar dream! There was much ballyhooing and celebration surrounding the announcement of a "standard platform" ....and then it all went away and the QuickStart showed up. Must find that thread to prove our sanity!!

    EDIT: I found this, from Ken clarifying the platform position - which is a response to this, which is about the disturbing trend of no or multiple standard platforms. I think the first thread led to the discussion which caused Martin to create the DNA (a really nice version of the PP format board).
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-09-30 13:22
    I am thinking that Parallax should consider have special Overseas User Sales.... maybe target all the poor souls that have VAT at one time, Brazil's tariffs at yet another.

    Does Brazil or Norway have an annual Independence Day. That would be a great date for a Parallax sale.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2013-09-30 14:02
    The Quickstart seems to still be available at its lower price and with a prototyping board thrown in from Propeller Powered:

    http://propellerpowered.us/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_60&product_id=52
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2013-10-02 05:48
    Loopy Byteloose wrote: »
    Well, ordering from Brazil or Norway makes ordering from Taiwan look very reasonable. It is mostly the international shipping that makes orders expensive. So I try to buy a lot and order less frequently.
    It's not that it's particularly difficult to order from Norway, it's not really comparable with Brazil where it's really tricky. It's just that for Norway there is a VAT limit for imported goods, and anything with value below the limit (currently at around $33-$34) sails through, no problems. Shipping is reasonable too, with the lowest priced USPS options. And shipping is not part of the calculation for VAT value limit. The problem occurs when the value dips over.. then suddenly there's not just VAT on value AND shipping, but there's an unreasonable customs handling charge as well (and shipping delays). The charge overhead is so large that it suddenly doesn't make sense anymore to buy anything in that price range. The QS, with its old price, was in the nice group of low-cost items which could be ordered and bought one by one when needed. With the new price it's out of reach. To mitigate the customs overhead (although there would still be the 25 percent VAT) I should then wait until I could buy something with a combined value of up to about $170 (above that level triggers a doubling of customs handling charges), but that would (for Parallax' shipping at least) enforce a much more expensive shipping option (plus VAT). So it's simply a cut-off at this stage. Ebay, China and cheap microcontrollers is an option for hobbyists, but not an attractive one.

    For the moment I'm OK with the number of QS boards I have. I'm aware that I could stack up on some more from Parallax and PropellerPowered (as long as there's a sale or something), but I can't do that now - I'm going on mission for a long time and can't buy anything until I'm home again.

    The activity board is not a low-cost option for me either btw, for exactly the same reason: Too expensive for casual buying as it triggers the whole VAT annoyance. The ASC+, the Demo, Backpack, the old GG PP USB - only the QS was in the right price range. That's why I was saying I feel like an era is over, with that very reasonably priced board which made it possible for a Norwegian to just buy and play. Not that I'm blaming anyone, certainly not Parallax which I'm sure need to cover their costs and necessary profit. I'm just whining a little bit for myself. The hobby would become much more costly and I'll just have to stick with what I have already. Now, if the US dollar could just crash again.. at one point it was so low that the VAT limit came out at $36! :)

    -Tor
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2013-10-02 06:30
    Can someone from Parallax address the price increase on the Quickstart (QS)?

    The Project Board USB (PBUSB) is only $24.99, the QS at $34.99 seems out of line in comparison.

    The PBUSB is a larger board which I think would makes up some of the cost difference of the additional connector and LED's plus related circuits on the QS.

    Is there a desire to move away from the QS as a platform?

    The QS is great for experimenting because you can prototype on the $4.99 QS Protoboards and swap out protoboards for different projects.
    I realize you can still use the protoboards with the PBUSB, but the large foot print is an issue for little robotics projects.

    Just looking for some clarity.

    Thanks,

    Chris Wardell
  • YanomaniYanomani Posts: 1,524
    edited 2013-10-02 07:23
    Loopy Byteloose wrote: »
    I am thinking that Parallax should consider have special Overseas User Sales.... maybe target all the poor souls that have VAT at one time, Brazil's tariffs at yet another.

    Does Brazil or Norway have an annual Independence Day. That would be a great date for a Parallax sale.

    Loopy Byteloose

    Sure we also have, on the tropics, our country's Independency Day!

    It was September's 7th!

    It's a pitty that it has just passed, at least for this year's kind of Parallax Libs Days, where, perhaps, Libs can be the short form for "Local International Bargain Sales"!

    But, sure, I'm not here to induce nor announce anything! Moreover, the suggestion belongs to you and your great ideas!

    Perhaps on next year's, we could celebrate our Dual Independence Day, political, from Portugal, in 1722, and technological, from many of our nation's Middle Aged minds, tax legislators as the front porch ones, customs authorities as the back, as usual!

    Either way, you had an excellent idea, at least for us, brazilian Parallax customers! Count me on, to support this one too!

    Sure, we don't blame Parallax, nor Chip or Ken, for nothing more than providing us some fantastic processors and wonderfull application products.
    And sure, they also strive to incentive and support each and every good initiatives their worldwide community does suggests and, many times, embraces as they are their own babies, to nurture and care!

    Politcs! Bahh!
    Sure they are perpetually stinking behemoths, living at the expenses of the rest of us, almost sane mankind's remains!

    General tax and customs rates are solely the rotten teeth they use in their every day task, of social tissue dilaceration.
    Even the most disgusting worms are ashamed, when someone compares their behavioral similarities.

    Now its up to you Tor, from the cold North, to launch one of your outstanding fishing nets, and see what kind of marine creature can be trapped for the next meal!
    But please, just avoid some Kraken!:lol:

    200px-Colossal_octopus_by_Pierre_Denys_de_Montfort.jpg


    Yanomani
    200px-Colossal_octopus_by_Pierre_Denys_de_Montfort.jpg
    200 x 308 - 21K
  • Invent-O-DocInvent-O-Doc Posts: 768
    edited 2013-10-02 07:35
    My guess, is that there are realities they are contending with after a second fail of prop 2 run. I'll be supporting 'em through this. The support I get from them is worth a lot more to me than the cost of the boards.
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2013-10-02 07:45
    Invent-O-Doc wrote: »
    My guess, is that there are realities they are contending with after a second fail of prop 2 run. I'll be supporting 'em through this. The support I get from them is worth a lot more to me than the cost of the boards.

    I could see an across the board increase, but this looks like an effort to move away from the Quickstart, thats why I compared the price to that of the Project Board USB.

    The BOM's don't seem different enough, especially considering the larger size of the PBUSB, to account for the price difference.

    C.W.
  • Mike CookMike Cook Posts: 829
    edited 2013-10-02 08:04
    ctwardell wrote: »
    I could see an across the board increase, but this looks like an effort to move away from the Quickstart, thats why I compared the price to that of the Project Board USB.

    The BOM's don't seem different enough, especially considering the larger size of the PBUSB, to account for the price difference.

    C.W.

    Just a wild guess…………..


    OR, maybe this is an effort to close the price gap between what Radio Shack, and other retailers, are selling this board for:


    http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12310183


    http://www.microcenter.com/product/390038/P8X32A_QuickStart_Board


    with the old price of 19.99 to 29.99, it looks like Radio Shack was gouging the customer with their price of 43.99
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2013-10-02 08:06
    When the QS first came out, it was a low margin (even given away) item for Parallax Semiconductor to garner interest with engineering samples. I imagine after a couple of years, the realities of having a really popular board as a loss leader (0 to little margin) is taking its toll.

    I agree with Invent-O-Doc the value of Parallax support and quality is worth it. The bad part is that the VAT threshold was crossed for many of our foreign friends which dramatically impacts their overall costs.

    As badly as they are being taxed (ok, we're being taxed badly too but in different ways), I wouldn't object to a "foreign pricing" that comes in below the VAT threshold. Yes, it cuts into the Parallax margin on these boards but it may be covered in the ratio of foreign sales versus domestic sales. Yes, it's kind of a subsidy but I see it more as an ANTI-VAT discount! :lol:
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,392
    edited 2013-10-02 13:14
    ctwardell wrote: »
    Can someone from Parallax address the price increase on the Quickstart (QS)?

    The Project Board USB (PBUSB) is only $24.99, the QS at $34.99 seems out of line in comparison.

    The PBUSB is a larger board which I think would makes up some of the cost difference of the additional connector and LED's plus related circuits on the QS.

    Is there a desire to move away from the QS as a platform?

    The QS is great for experimenting because you can prototype on the $4.99 QS Protoboards and swap out protoboards for different projects.
    I realize you can still use the protoboards with the PBUSB, but the large foot print is an issue for little robotics projects.

    Just looking for some clarity.

    Thanks,

    Chris Wardell

    Hello Chris,

    No, there's no desire to move away from the QuickStart as a reference platform. There is no marketing agenda in the difference between the two prices. In fact, if the QuickStart were an "end of life" candidate we'd price it lower to move our inventory. I think these two prices are really based on our costs more than anything....so let me take a look.

    OK, these two boards cost us about the same to manufacture.

    The reason the QuickStart is higher is because it's more like a development tool. The idea is that you need one or two, and then you can plug a bunch of modules into it. Further, it's a reference design and the price of it needs to reflect some level of support from our Field Application Engineers as typical customers include product designers.

    The Propeller Project Board USB is priced low because we build them in mass and want to encourage consumption of them in projects.
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2013-10-02 13:35
    Ken,

    Thanks for the reply. I'm glad to see the QS isn't going way.

    Chris Wardell
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