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PC + Ethernet + Propeller = CNC — Parallax Forums

PC + Ethernet + Propeller = CNC

ManAtWorkManAtWork Posts: 2,176
edited 2013-10-05 04:19 in Propeller 1
I know there are already several projects that use the propeller for CNC applications. Although the propeller has enough power to perfom nicely as a "stand alone" controller and beeing able to run G-code from an SD card without a PC also has some advantages, but I decided to do it a bit different.

The propeller is ideally suited for controlling hardware, generating PWM and step/dir signals with excellent timing and much more. But there are also other things a PC can do better: GUI and processing large amounts of data. So the obvious solution is to divide the task and let each one do what it can best.

The PC provides the user interface and visualisation of the toolpath.
Gui.jpg


The propeller does all the time critical signal generation and communicates with the PC over ethernet.
NetBob1.jpg


Step and Dir signals are routed to the servo and stepper motor drives which are, of course, also propeller based.
CncController.jpg


Here is a video of the machine in action. Unfortunatelly, it was really loud there so you can't hear that the servos were running almost silently.
800 x 600 - 67K
1024 x 768 - 102K
800 x 751 - 74K

Comments

  • MicksterMickster Posts: 2,694
    edited 2013-09-25 10:30
    Whoa very nice, Bene!

    Any more details?

    Why mix servos and steppers?

    Is there feed-forward?

    Cutter comp?

    Props closing the servo loops?

    Maximum 5 axis?

    Regards,

    Mickster.
  • ManAtWorkManAtWork Posts: 2,176
    edited 2013-09-26 01:32
    Mickster wrote: »
    Whoa very nice, Bene!
    Any more details?
    Why mix servos and steppers?

    Thanks! It's just a demo to show it is possible. Normally, you won't mix servos with steppers on the main (XYZ) axes. But why not save some money for less important things like the tool changer by using steppers? Even with servos I'd install two sensors to check if the tool changer disc has reached the final position AND the pocket is empty before dropping the tool. This avoids damage where the spindle crashes into the jaws or into a full pocket. So there's no need for a servo.
    Is there feed-forward? ...
    Props closing the servo loops?

    You mean velocity feed forward in the position loop? Not at the moment. I ran out of cog code space but I think I can squeeze it in after some optimization. There is also no room for a second feedback system (glass scales) due to lack of cogs and pins. But as only few people really need this I'll implement it with an external board and an extra prop. I've already done a DRO project with a prop reading sin/cos (1Vpp) glass scale signals directly (without expensive interpolator, Heidenhain calls it "exe"). So technically this would be no problem, I just don't have the time, at the moment.

    BTW, the servos in the video have single turn absolute encoders with 17bit or 131072 steps/turn resolution. They have a proprietary serial protocol which would require an asic/fpga without the ingenious bit-banging ability of the propeller. The high resolution enables a very stiff velocity control loop with almost zero noise even at very low speeds. The servo controllers also support standard incremental and sin/cos encoders. I planned to also support resolvers but it didn't work well. I used the sigma-delta RC method of the propeller to do AD conversion and it has too much noise for the required resolution. The next version will have an optional external 16 bit ADC.
    Cutter comp?
    Maximum 5 axis?

    Yes, the software supports cutter length and radius compensation. The current board only has 4 axes since this is sufficient for most applications. I have enough cogs left to support 6 (synchronized and interpolated) axes if required. For auxiliary axes that don't need tight synchronisation you could theoretically cascade multiple boards.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,662
    edited 2013-09-26 02:48
    Very nice looking! Very clean and professional look. Is the pc software something standard, or did you make your own?
  • ManAtWorkManAtWork Posts: 2,176
    edited 2013-09-26 03:45
    The PC software is written completely from scratch. This was by far the hardest part. Over a man year went into software development and it's still not finished, yet. I wouldn't have done this if it wasn't part of a payed project.

    An interesting feature which took considerable development time ist that the communication is not based on TCP/IP but uses a special protocol. This means you don't have to worry about IP numbers. All modules are recognised fully automatically. The protocol is highly fault tolerant. For example you can pull the cable and plug it into a different port of the network switch. If you're fast enough not to provoke a timeout the machine doesn't stop or hickup. And even in the case it does the propeller stops the machine with proper deceleration ramps so you can recover without loss of position.
  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2013-09-26 12:50
    Note to Parallax: This would be a fantastic example to put on your "Customer Success" section on ParallaxSemiconductor.
  • ManAtWorkManAtWork Posts: 2,176
    edited 2013-09-30 06:28
    Haha:lol: yes, I have to agree that this would be a good example to show what is possible with a propeller. But the definition of "success" differs a lot depending on the viewpoint. For us computer geeks, something is a success if it works and people are impressed. However, the marketing people surely wouldn't call my profit to investment ratio for this project of 0:$100k a success. I hope this will get better some day but until then there's still a lot of work to do.
  • FredBlaisFredBlais Posts: 370
    edited 2013-09-30 08:49
    Very professional looking. The PCB is slick and that cabinet is really neat. You are bringing back some tips/tricks from the job aren't you? :)
  • StefanL38StefanL38 Posts: 2,292
    edited 2013-10-01 00:18
    Hi Fred,

    no ManAtWork does not bring back some tips/tricks from the job. Its opposite. He brought the propeller-chip to his working for a living job.
    Maybe the complete CNC-machine is not (yet) an economical success. But I think the prop-based stepper- and servo-controllers ARE a success.

    Show me any other stepperdrivers with these specs and prices:

    3axle 55V 5A 1/10-microsteps price: 265Euro = $358

    single axle: 80V 10A 1/40 microstep real sinewave conversion 150 Euro = $203

    single axle 160V 10A 1/10 microstep real sinewave conversion 195 Euro = $264

    Have a look at http://benezan-electronics.de/test/Products_de.html

    b
    est regards
    Stefan
  • MicksterMickster Posts: 2,694
    edited 2013-10-01 11:45
    But what happened to the "UHU" servo drive?
  • ManAtWorkManAtWork Posts: 2,176
    edited 2013-10-02 03:08
    Mickster wrote: »
    But what happened to the "UHU" servo drive?

    It has no Propeller but an Atmel MCU so I decided to ban it.:smile:

    Seriously... I thought the new servo controller was available before the stock has been sold out but I was wrong.
  • MicksterMickster Posts: 2,694
    edited 2013-10-02 03:24
    Hey Bene,

    I am a serious prospective customer but I find it difficult to understand your products and I don't get replies to my email enquiries.

    I build/rebuild/retrofit machinery for a living but have no use for stepper motor based systems. Your OP on this thread suggests you support servo motors but your website no-longer shows any of your own products to be servo related. I understand that your site is under construction so maybe this stuff isn't listed yet(?)


    Regards,

    Mickster
  • ManAtWorkManAtWork Posts: 2,176
    edited 2013-10-02 06:30
    I'm sorry but this discussion is going in the wrong direction. My post was never meant as a product announcement or promotion (Post # 9 looks like but it's from Stefan, I don't pay him for this ;-). I just want to show what I do with propellers. Although I do this job for a living, this project is still in the experimental stage. If you have any questions about the items shown in post #1 please feel free to ask. However this has nothing to do with my web shop or any products I sell. This is not the right place to talk about UHU servo drives or whatever, unless it has something to do with the Propeller.
    ...and I don't get replies to my email enquiries

    Huh? I received your mail on monday 30th at 14:14 CET and replied 15:42 the same day. If anything was lost or forgotten, please send it again or try the forum message system.
  • Kerry SKerry S Posts: 163
    edited 2013-10-03 07:18
    Very nice work!

    We are taking a similar track making custom controls for specialty machines for my shop, we are just not nearly as far along as you are.

    Please keep posting your progress, it is inspiring.
  • MicksterMickster Posts: 2,694
    edited 2013-10-05 04:19
    ManAtWork wrote: »
    Huh? I received your mail on monday 30th at 14:14 CET and replied 15:42 the same day. If anything was lost or forgotten, please send it again or try the forum message system.

    Doh!!! My apologies. I have a dedicated folder for your emails that I had forgotten about and for some reason I don't get a notification either on my PC or my phone.

    ManAtWork wrote: »
    This is not the right place to talk about UHU servo drives or whatever, unless it has something to do with the Propeller.

    Well with all respect and the fact that I feel like I have been publicly reprimanded:
    • I believed the UHU to be Propeller-based which is the only reason that I was interested in the product.
    • My email enquiry to you was entitled: "Propeller brushless servo project" (Okay, soon became obvious that the UHU was not a brushless drive)
    • You responded to this email and didn't correct me on my assumption that the UHU was based on the Propeller but in fact, when I asked whether you supported the industry standard +/- 10v motor command, you replied: " +/-10V input is more difficult because I don't have any board space or propeller pins left over at the current design."

    I fully agree that this forum should be for discussing Propeller-related products only and I resent being accused of not respecting this.

    Mickster
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