Disappointing Hobby King experience

W9GFO · 2013-09-24 16:28

Sep 18 - placed an $80.51 order with Hobby King, paid using a debit card.
Sep 20 - Bank account shows that Hobby King withdrew $80.51 from my account
Sep 21 - Hobby King shows status of order as unpaid.
Sep 21 - I open a support ticket asking why it shows unpaid when they already have my money.
Sep 22 - receive email from Hobby King stating that the payment was approved.
Sep 22 - receive another email saying that my CC info is incomplete and they need me to send an image of my cc.
Sep 22 - I respond asking why they need an image when they already have my money.
Sep 23 - no response
Sep 24 - I request that my order be canceled and a refund be issued.
Sep 24 - no response
Sep 25 - I request that my order be canceled and a refund be issued. Attempted an online chat, gave up after waiting 15 minutes.
Sep 25 - no response
Sep 26 - I request that my order be canceled and a refund be issued. Attempted an online chat, gave up after waiting 10 minutes.
Sep 26 - Attempted another online chat 12 hours later, gave up after waiting 10 minutes.
Sep 26 - Opened another support ticket requesting cancellation.
Sep 26 - Spoke with my bank, they confirm that HK has the money (not a hold or pre-auth), I have 60 days to file a dispute.
Sep 27 - Hobby King responds to my request to cancel order. They tell me it can take 4 to 6 weeks to get my money back.
Oct 07 - No refund yet.
Oct 10 - Asked Hobby King what is taking so long.
Oct 12 - Hobby King replies that they have processed my refund through PayPal. Note that I paid using a debit card and they previously said that I needed to check my CC statement for the refund.
Oct 15 - Hobby King replies to my latest inquiry, telling me that the order was cancelled and a full refund requested on Oct 4. I actually requested a refund on Sep 24, they cancelled it on Sep 27.
Oct 17 - Hobby King replies to my request for details about the refund - they say they have refunded it to my credit card but do not give any more details.
Oct 24 - At last, a deposit for $80.51 was made into my debit account.

Circuitsoft · 2013-09-24 19:41

They don't already have your money. The attempt to authorize placed a hold on your bank account, but the credit card company thinks it's a fraudulent transaction. Either send Hobby King a photocopy of your Credit Card, or you may be able to work this out by calling Card Services at your bank and letting them know that it is a valid transaction.

W9GFO · 2013-09-24 19:57

When I check my account I can see both holds (pre-authorizations) and completed transactions. The Hobby King one shows as completed.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2013-09-24 21:18

Rich,

You could jsut go there and settle it on the spot. HobbyKing is located (according to the Wash. St. Dept. of Revenue) at:

9822 47TH AVE SW BLDG 18 STE A
LAKEWOOD, WA 98499

-Phil

NWCCTV · 2013-09-25 13:32

And for an $80.00 order he will eat up $90.00 in fuel and time!!!! Bellevue to Lakewood on a Friday afternoon, not a good idea!!!!!

jdolecki · 2013-09-26 03:49

Dont ever send anybody a copy of your credit card.

If you like to buy alot of stuff online get an account / card for doing just that

That way you can transfer just the ammount to cover the purchases

GordonMcComb · 2013-09-26 10:36

Address Phil provided is a shared warehouse space in Lakewood (this is common for Chinese importers), and it's unlikely there are many administrative tasks being done there. If you send your credit card it'll go to an email in China. Do you really want an image of your credit card sent to China?

Sep 24 - I request that my order be canceled and a refund be issued.

Given the circumstances this is the only safe thing to do.

-- Gordon

GordonMcComb · 2013-09-26 14:18

Circuitsoft wrote: »

They don't already have your money. The attempt to authorize placed a hold on your bank account, but the credit card company thinks it's a fraudulent transaction.

I rather doubt this. Credit card companies don't encourage sending a facsimile of the credit card, so they won't suggest it, and in fact will tell you it's against current PCI compliance rules (doing so captures and records the card number and CVV together, which is forbidden). For the auth (and therefore hold) and charge to have been placed, Hobby King received approval from their processor. There just isn't a return code for "it's approved but we think it's fraudulent."

Hobby King asking for the card face is part of their own scrub policy. Their gateway charged the card immediately, and got approval. On review, and probably because it exceeded a certain threshold, they then determined they wanted verification. They're within their rights to do so, as long as they remain compliant, but for the low amount considered, it's pretty chintzy.

Rich, given your updates, sounds like a chargeback is in your near future.

-- Gordon

W9GFO · 2013-09-26 14:32

Since they are not responding for the last few days I have opened up another support ticket. Here is what I said;

I have asked multiple times that my order be cancelled and have received no response from you in the last four days. I have also asked why you are requiring an image of my Debit Card after you have withdrawn the money from my account, you have not responded.

I will not send an image because;
1) You have already successfully charged my account
2) No one has ever made such a request and I find it suspicious
3) If I were attempting fraud a Debit card image would be easy to fake
4) You did not notify me that there was a problem until after I opened a support ticket, after you had debited my account.
5) You have not responded to any of my questions regarding this issue.

Please cancel order# 20077259xx and issue a refund for $80.51.

Don M · 2013-09-26 15:33

It would be simpler to just call the card issuing company (your bank?) and just have them reverse the charges and explain why. They always side with the card holder.

W9GFO · 2013-09-26 15:44

I did talk to my bank, BECU which has excellent customer service BTW, they have confirmed that they (Hobby King) do indeed have my money, it is not a hold or a pre-auth. I have 60 days to file a dispute so I will wait a bit and see if Hobby King refunds my money.

ratronic · 2013-09-26 16:20

I am interested in how Hobby King handles this. I may not be ordering from them anymore. My guess is it will be resolved - but how long? If they are quick that will put my faith back in them.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2013-09-26 16:24

I've purchased from them twice, with no issues except slow shipping from China on the first order. The second order was from the U.S. warehouse, and it arrived in two days.

-Phil

GordonMcComb · 2013-09-26 16:34

If you wait until the 28th, and still no proof of shipping, that would be ten days to process the order following payment, and you'd have a good excuse to ask your bank to initiate a chargeback. Interbank rules by Mastercard and Visa do not permit mail order firms to charge a card and then not ship in an expeditious manner.

Depending on the bank, though, don't expect the funds to be immediately put back. It often takes 7-10 days when using a debit card.

User Name · 2013-09-26 19:44

My experience with HK has been fairly positive. According to their records I've placed 51 orders with them. Embarrassing isn't it? Anyway, only once did I ask for a refund (when an item was on backorder too long) and they were fairly prompt in responding and refunding my money. You may just need to give them time. Matthew and Vivian were the two individuals who processed the refund.

Here's Vivian's note:

Vivian, Nov 11 07:37 (HKT):

Hi David ,
Thanks for contacting the HobbyKing Support Team.

Upon your request, I have canceled your order and I have put request to accounting department for refund procedures. It should take maximum 7 working days for administration, please let us know if you have not receive it by then.
Thank you for your patience.

Thanks for emailing support.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Regards.
Vivian
HobbyKing Support Team
Dont forget to follow us on Twitter and Facebook for discounts and promotions!
http://www.facebook.com/HobbyKing
www.twitter.com/hobbykinglive

W9GFO · 2013-09-27 01:06

Wow, just seven days huh? Here is the response that I finally got from Hobby King;

Rachel, Sep 27 09:34 (HKT):

Hi Rich ,
Thanks for contacting the HobbyKing Support Team.We have canceled your order at your request. It has been arranged to refund the money back to your credit card. It takes around 4-6 weeks to credit the money back to the card account. Please check with your Credit Card Company or next credit card statement for updates.

They have not responded at all to any questions about requiring an image of my card.

Beau Schwabe · 2013-09-27 09:49

4-6 weeks! .... Make sure that window doesn't fall outside of their buyer complaint window. in a similar way that you should be aware when making an eBay purchase from China when it takes 3 weeks plus for it to arrive to you. The time it takes to get to you is conveniently, for them, outside of the buyer complaint window in some cases. 4-6 weeks sounds excessive. <- maybe in the 80's that would have been acceptable

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2013-09-27 10:26

I wonder if what "Rachel" meant to say was, "Depending upon your billing cycle, it may take 4 to 6 weeks for the credit to show on your credit card statement." That's different than saying that the credit won't be applied by HK for 4 to 6 weeks.

-Phil

W9GFO · 2013-10-05 14:17

It has been over a week and no refund yet.

Three days ago I started the return process for something that I bought from Amazon. It was picked up by UPS yesterday and a refund was issued last night.

Beau Schwabe · 2013-10-05 14:47

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVo2fHXVLEs

W9GFO · 2013-10-12 21:33

A couple days ago I asked Hobby King what was taking so long, they replied today saying that they had processed my refund on Oct 10th - through PayPal!

I paid using a debit card and they told me almost two weeks ago to look to my CC statement for the refund. They also said that it can take seven days and if I don't get it by then to take it up with PayPal.

My PayPal account shows no activity.

Hi Rich,

Thanks for contacting the HobbyKing Support Team.Thank you for waiting for our response. As I've check for your order 2007725945 we already process a refund through your Paypal last 4/10/ 2013 this will take within 7 business days. Please be advise that once you didn't receive the refund within 7 business days you may contact the Paypal.

Thanks for emailing support.

If you have any other questions, please let me know.

Regards.

Becky
HobbyKing Support Team

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2013-10-12 22:01

Rich, I'd still be loathe to credit malice when ineptitude remains a possibility.

-Phil

ratronic · 2013-10-13 07:32

You said you used your C.C. for that order. I don't know if you have used PayPal with them before so I wonder how they know your PayPal account?

Beau Schwabe · 2013-10-13 08:05

"so I wonder how they know your PayPal account" - A PayPal account just ties to an email address, through PayPal, you can send money to anyone with an e-mail address, which is probably what happened. If he used an e-mail to correspond, then, on their false assumption they credited the money to THAT e-mail address. It is a PITA, but if he double checks his e-mail (SPAM) he might see a PayPal transaction. One way around this is to set up "another" temporary PayPal account (assuming he doesn't have one currently tied to the correspondence e-mail), then he should be able to transfer the funds into a more active PayPal account.

Gadgetman · 2013-10-13 08:17

Or you could add your other email addresses to your paypal account...
I have 4 email addresses registered in mine.

Just be careful about which one is set as 'Primary'
(It's the one that will be used as 'sender' whenever you send someone money.)

W9GFO · 2013-10-13 11:15

Beau Schwabe (Parallax) wrote: »

"so I wonder how they know your PayPal account" - A PayPal account just ties to an email address, through PayPal, you can send money to anyone with an e-mail address, which is probably what happened. If he used an e-mail to correspond, then, on their false assumption they credited the money to THAT e-mail address. It is a PITA, but if he double checks his e-mail (SPAM) he might see a PayPal transaction.

So far I have received no notice from PayPal of a payment either on my active account or via an email from the address that HK has been using for correspondence - which has no spam filter in place.

Genetix · 2013-10-13 17:48

Try sending snail mail to their business address along with a copy to whomever regulates them.

GordonMcComb · 2013-10-14 09:28

I would challenge them to provide a PayPal transaction ID far prior to waiting another week, along with the email address they used for sending the payment.

If I'm understanding you, the debit card is not tied to a PayPal account, but is something else? They would almost assuredly want to credit back through the same payment processor they used to charge you, so they get back their transaction fees. It makes no sense that they'd take a non-PayPal debit card, then credit you back the full amount using PayPal. They lose money doing it this way, so it sounds quite fishy to me.

W9GFO · 2013-10-15 10:20

How's this for a completely useless support response?

Hi Rich,

Thanks for contacting the HobbyKing Support Team.We have checked your order ID 2007725945 and the order has been cancelled by our representatives last October 4, 2013. A full refund was requested on the same date in the amount of $80.51.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Regards,Judith
HobbyKing Support Team

W9GFO · 2013-10-15 10:33

GordonMcComb wrote: »

If I'm understanding you, the debit card is not tied to a PayPal account, but is something else?

When I pay using PayPal it will use the same account as the debit card but I paid using the debit card directly. They would have no way of knowing that they were tied to the same account.

W9GFO · 2013-10-15 10:48

I have sent yet another support request asking for my money to be refunded or details on the account that it had already been refunded to, such as the email address and transaction ID if PayPal was used.

Disappointing Hobby King experience

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