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Is the solder I'm using destroying all my devices? — Parallax Forums

Is the solder I'm using destroying all my devices?

teganburnsteganburns Posts: 134
edited 2013-09-01 14:18 in General Discussion
Is the solder I'm using destroying all my devices?
Reading the label after over $100s worth of electronics is not working it says "do not use with aluminium or magnesium"
so my guess is yes this solder has ruined these devices...

http://www.rectorseal.com/index.php/nokorode-regular-paste-flux/



Comments

  • Duane C. JohnsonDuane C. Johnson Posts: 955
    edited 2013-08-30 01:59
    That stuff is designed to be used with copper and brass plumbing applications.
    While it says it has no acid in it, its undoubtedly is very aggressive solder paste to adequately clean the surfaces.
    Further, and this is the important point, it doesn't specifically say it's for "Electronic" soldering.

    It's good for soldering but not for electronics.

    Duane J
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2013-08-30 04:08
    You show a link to solder paste. What kind of solder are you using? Make sure it does not say ACID CORE.

    You can get ROSIN flux at Radio Shack.
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2013-08-30 04:19
    The link is to a solder flux (NOKORODE® Regular Paste Flux), this is not solder. The flux linked to should not be a problem by itself. The manufacturer states on the product data sheet that it does not contain acid. The MSDS has the Reactivity rated 0 (zero). As long as you didn't use an "acid core" solder with it you should be okay. However, I would be sure to clean off any excess flux remaining after soldering is finished.
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2013-08-30 05:24
    That is a plumbing flux, don't use it for electronics.

    Product data sheet:

    http://ows.rectorseal.com/product-data/regular-paste-flux/dsreglarps.htm

    From the product data sheet:

    "Nokorode® Regular Paste Flux can be used with 95/5, 60/40, 50/50 and 40/60 solders. It can be used on all solderable metals including copper, tin, zinc, nickel, and sheet lead. Do not use on stainless steel, aluminum or magnesium. Not recommended for electronic use."

    For electronic use you need rosin core solder, like someone else mentioned you can get it at Radio Shack. You don't normally need a seperate brush on flux for the majority of electronic work.

    C.W.
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2013-08-30 05:24
    http://ows.rectorseal.com/product-data/regular-paste-flux/dsreglarps.htm

    The web site specifically states "Not recommended for electronic use." under the Applications section.
  • Duane C. JohnsonDuane C. Johnson Posts: 955
    edited 2013-08-30 05:43
    Guys, I'm disagreeing here a bit.
    The plumber flux is different from the electronic version.
    The binder is a thick grease along with a high activity flux enhancer with the rosin.
    This grease, carrying the flux, is not easy to clean.
    I tested this and my dish washer on hot with detergent didn't cut it well. There was always some left.
    With surface mount parts, especially ball grid arrays how do you effectively get the grease residue out from under the parts?

    Electronic types have a different binder which is easily dissolved with IPA.
    I use a high activity liquid flux:
    AIM RA-301 Type R
    This stuff is like magic.
    I always have a small "Baby Food Jar" with a tooth pick in it.
    This can be thinned with a bit of IPA if it dries out.

    BTW, my standard IPA I use is 91% IPA rubbing alcohol with 7% water I get at Walmart.
    I use this in my ultrasonic cleaner. Have been doing this for at least 10 years.
    My cleaner has a metal lid and cleaning tank.
    You really have to work at it to catch it on fire. I can do it with my BBQ lighter. But goes right out by putting the lid back on. I have tried to do it with sparks but newer was successful setting it on fire.
    Ya, I know, the instructions say don't use alcohol. But I do anyway.

    Duane J
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2013-08-30 06:21
    Just to reiterate, the op is apparently asking about something which has already happened. I didn't intend my previous post to sound like I thought that flux was okay to use, if that's what anyone was thinking.
    Is the solder I'm using destroying all my devices?

    It would be good to know what solder you are actually using.
    Reading the label after over $100s worth of electronics is not working it says "do not use with aluminium or magnesium"

    Just curious here, what is "$100s worth of electronics" ? Is it one device you just built using a lot of expensive parts or dozens of devices built over a period of time with a bunch of cheap parts?

    Note that there is probably not any aluminum or magnesium used in your "electronics", but there is no way to be certain since you didn't specify any actual part numbers.
    so my guess is yes this solder has ruined these devices...

    If you actually meant "this solder flux" and not "this solder", then probably not. Based on the MSDS and data sheet, it's not likely that this flux has done any real damage or is the cause of your electronics "not working". Was it a good choice? Absolutely not. If it's as greasy as Duane says, you'll probably have to resort to some kind of real solvent or degreaser to clean it off.
  • GenetixGenetix Posts: 1,754
    edited 2013-08-30 13:31
    You can look up all those Military and government specifications here:

    http://quicksearch.dla.mil/

    A-A-51145: Flux, Soldering, Non-Electronic, Paste and Liquid
  • teganburnsteganburns Posts: 134
    edited 2013-08-30 13:35
    RDL2004 wrote: »
    Just to reiterate, the op is apparently asking about something which has already happened. I didn't intend my previous post to sound like I thought that flux was okay to use, if that's what anyone was thinking.

    It would be good to know what solder you are actually using.

    Just curious here, what is "$100s worth of electronics" ? Is it one device you just built using a lot of expensive parts or dozens of devices built over a period of time with a bunch of cheap parts?

    Note that there is probably not any aluminum or magnesium used in your "electronics", but there is no way to be certain since you didn't specify any actual part numbers.

    If you actually meant "this solder flux" and not "this solder", then probably not. Based on the MSDS and data sheet, it's not likely that this flux has done any real damage or is the cause of your electronics "not working". Was it a good choice? Absolutely not. If it's as greasy as Duane says, you'll probably have to resort to some kind of real solvent or degreaser to clean it off.

    It is a CMOS camera ($50) , Some prop minis, and some pressure sensors. actually comes up to ~150 + tax and shipping.

    I used it on my tricopter but it worked great with that.

    For those who are curious I attached some pictures
    IMG_20130830_132802.jpg
    IMG_20130830_132811.jpg
    IMG_20130830_132819.jpg
    IMG_20130830_132826.jpg
    1024 x 1365 - 141K
    1024 x 1365 - 138K
    1024 x 1365 - 119K
    1024 x 1365 - 139K
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-30 13:46
    teganburns,

    The question in my mind is where did you get the idea that you would need such flux for soldering normal electronic circuits?

    Everyone has been using solder+flux (multicore solder) for decades, so I wonder what misinformation you ran in to and where?
  • teganburnsteganburns Posts: 134
    edited 2013-08-30 13:57
    Well I asked my step-dad for some flux and he said "Here... regular flux... this should work!" And last night after my cmos camera didn't work just after using the flux I became suspicious of the flux instead of faulty devices.

    So ill let him know when i see him later today, and he will probably help me with the cost of replacing some things, and getting the right flux from Radioshack.

    I'm not sure what he used it for...
  • GenetixGenetix Posts: 1,754
    edited 2013-08-30 14:04
    There are many different kinds of fluxes depending on the application.

    Welding fluxes are granular.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2013-08-30 14:09
    I think there were some good suggestions in your previous post:

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/148817-Soldering-problems?highlight=solder

  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2013-08-30 14:13
    That flux you used is non-corrosive and non-conductive. It's very unlikely that it caused your problems. You may need to look elsewhere to figure out what went wrong.

    What kind of solder did you use?
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-30 14:15
    teganburns,

    OK, I find it really hard to believe that the flux killed your camera, or any other electronic construction, so quickly.
    Yes it can leave corrosive residues that kill things eventually. I suspect you had other problems there.

    Never mind "the right flux from Radioshack". Most electronics projects can be soldered together with regular rosin core solder, like so: http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_ideas/Elec_primer-solder.shtml

    Oh and by the way, don't forget to pronounce the "l" in "solder":)
  • FranklinFranklin Posts: 4,747
    edited 2013-08-30 14:57
    The MSDS states:
    =============================================================================
    Section 3 -- COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
    INGREDIENT: Zinc Chloride
    PERCENTAGE BY WEIGHT: 10-25
    CAS#: 7646-85-7
    EC#: 231-592-0
    INGREDIENT: Ammonium Chloride
    PERCENTAGE BY WEIGHT: 10-25
    CAS#: 12125-02-9
    EC#: 235-186-4
    INGREDIENT: Petrolatum
    PERCENTAGE BY WEIGHT: 70-90
    CAS#: 8009-03-8
    EC#: 232-373-2
    Not sure what that will do to your circuits but if you clean it off you should be OK in the short run.
    It does not look like Parallax carries solder but Radio Shack, Adafruit and Sparkfun do.
  • GenetixGenetix Posts: 1,754
    edited 2013-08-30 15:50
    What type of solder and iron are you using?

    My instructor always said, if you need flux then you are doing something wrong.
    Did you clean parts the parts before soldering and was your solder tip tinned? Also, there is a proper solder technique but I remember an old hard drive controller that had a coating over the solder jumpers that I had to remove before they would solder.

    If you have brown spots all over your board then you applied too much heat.
  • Mark_TMark_T Posts: 1,981
    edited 2013-08-30 16:40
    Franklin wrote: »
    The MSDS states:
    Not sure what that will do to your circuits but if you clean it off you should be OK in the short run.
    It does not look like Parallax carries solder but Radio Shack, Adafruit and Sparkfun do.

    The chlorides will trash everything copper... Very acidic, never use this kind of flux!
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2013-08-30 17:21
    I second what Mark_T wrote. Furthermore, that high of a concentration of zinc chloride and ammonium chloride would certainly be too conductive to use on CMOS circuitry. OTOH, if you could remove every trace of it, you'd probably be okay.
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2013-08-30 17:24
    Solder 101 . Yes you can use acid .. but you should not... here is why .

    Acid flux eats copper ...... As long as you remove ALL traces of it . There is no reason why you cant use it !
    If its gone . . Then the acid is a moot point right !?

    However it takes a very small amount to destroy a board so its not done In real life !



    I use it on old stock copper clad prior to laying on the resist and then etch .
    ( but this is as a goopy cleaner not as its made for as a flux)
    The flux cored solder its self is more then enough for just about every joint a person has to make .
    I have some 5 core stuff that will adhere to anything and that includes 1960s tube sockets.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2013-08-30 18:02

    Acid flux eats copper ...... As long as you remove ALL traces of it . There is no reason why you cant use it !
    If its gone . . Then the acid is a moot point right !?



    Peter,

    I will have disagree to a point.

    Say, when soldering to a power or ground plane, the acid flux is captured under a solder joint. the acid flux will eat away the pad or trace after a while, diminishing the current it can carry.

    Why dable in the maybes. Just use the right stuff.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-08-31 03:11
    Rectorseal is a brand that has been around for a long time in the plumbing industry.

    The forum can go through endless anaylsis and speculation, but if you are buying a product for plumbing... use it with such. If you want flux for electronics, try manufacturers that sell to that market.

    Soldering has been around for centuries.. even the Romans soldered copper.. maybe the Greeks. On the other hand, electronics is much newer.. started with Benj. Franklin and his kite in a lightning storm.
  • FranklinFranklin Posts: 4,747
    edited 2013-08-31 17:31
    started with Benj. Franklin and his kite in a lightning storm.
    I can't remember, what type of solder did Ben use? ;)
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2013-09-01 08:31
    I have a roll of solder that I bought at The Shack last month.
    It's 62-36-2 (Sn-Pb-Ag, not your 60-40 this) and the label on the back has, in microscopic letters, "Do not use in fabrication or repair of potable water service systems."
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-09-01 11:57
    I guess these day is just is NOT politically correct to use solder that includes lead.

    Plumbing has gone to silver solder; electronics have gone to ROHS.

    But I can only keep up with this nonsense of being pushed around for so much, so I just bought a pound of something similar to what PJ Allen has.. about 60% tin and 40% lead. But, the flux is rosin core which is suppose to reduce corrosion that other fluxes encourage due to free ions in an electrical environment.
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,451
    edited 2013-09-01 14:18
    The no-no's are different in different situations.

    When soldering potable water pipes you never want to use any amount of lead. This isn't even a very new idea. This means the solder you do use will melt higher and probably have nastier fluxes, but those things aren't going to poison the people who drink the water.

    In industrial electronic production it's become an issue that a truly staggering amount of circuit boards end up in landfills, where the lead in solder can leach out, thus the ROHS initiative. ROHS solder is more expensive and difficult to use than traditional 60/40 with rosin flux, but when we are burying millions of tons of scrap where rainwater can leach through it to the aquifiers, it's a worthwhile sacrifice and one that isn't too hard to deal with for industrial producers. It's also better for workplace safety for workers who are exposed to the fumes 40 hours a week.

    For hobbyists, our creations are relatively sparse and our exposure to the fumes relatively infrequent, so the priority is ease of use and permanence. For this 60/40 and rosin flux is still best, as it melts lower and does not damage the circuitry if it isn't cleaned off perfectly. Those of us who step up to small scale production should probably consider ROHS but those of us who get there have gotten our start with the easy stuff and are familiar with how to handle soldering equipment. When starting out, ROHS is a PITA and the harm of using 60/40 with lead is relatively insignificant.
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