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Why Japanese manufacturers don't give free samples, even if they promise? — Parallax Forums

Why Japanese manufacturers don't give free samples, even if they promise?

CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
edited 2013-08-29 17:47 in General Discussion
I understand, if a company has a form on website for requesting for free samples, it should be used for requesting free samples, right? This works OK for texas, analog and most U.S. Companies. However, not with Japanese ones.

Here's the small list with names of japanese companies which have free sample request, and how they "responded"

http://www.t-yuden.com/# - requested capacitors via online form, no response at all.

http://www.toshiba-components.com/ - got confirmation mail, got nothing at hands.

http://www.murata-ps.com/ - got confirmation mail, that samples will be sent by distributor. Distributor sent quotation instead, saying that they can't provide free samples ($0.34 cost product was requested)

http://www.songchuanusa.com - promised to send, 6 months passed since.

http://www.tamuracorp.com/ - instead of samples, they provided a list of distributors where I can buy parts.


Below is the list of other, non-japanese manufacturers, which also has sample request form, but never delivered any, I think it will be helpful for others, to not waste time with them:

http://www.hendonsemiconductors.com
http://www.altechcorp.com
http://www.e-switch.com/
http://www.mec.dk
http://www.delevan.com/web/
http://www.johansondielectrics.com/
http://www.irctt.com
http://www.ohmite.com/
http://www.kamaya.com/
http://www.aavid.com/
http://www.bergquistcompany.com
http://www.tglobaltechnology.com/

Just to clarify, all requests were made from corporate email address, with proper sounding website and phone number.
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Comments

  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,934
    edited 2013-08-26 22:35
    Keep in mind that for many companies, the "free sample" policy is based upon potential business. I request samples frequently from various companies and rarely ever have issues. When I do have issues, usually it's due to cost of the items and I will get a call from a sales rep asking for more information as to the request. If you don't appear to be a prospect for them for business, samples are aren't easily given. With that said, however, you should at least get an automated reply explaining the sample approval process and/or reasons why the sample was denied.

    Samtec is very good and sending an email upon a sample request that states their process, timeline, approval details, and then the shipment details. ( I do work for a Contract Manufacturer that spends quite a bit with a lot of distributors, so sample requests from me are typically seen as business prospects for manufacturers).

    Parallax works the same way with their Quickstart board. If you have a valid design concept, call up an FAE from Parallax Semiconductor and they will happily send you a Quickstart because the success of your design turns into revenue for them down the road.
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2013-08-27 00:00
    As noted, requests were given from company profile, not for private use, and none of requested samples exceed $10 in total cost.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-08-27 05:50
    There are a few different aspects to why you do or don't get the free samples.

    First, free samples are a sales cost that is managed differently by every company. Japanese companies may not be willing to ship overseas due to Japan Law and the added costs. Or, they refer all listings to the sale people to further qualify.

    Second, for a lot of IC companies in the USA, the free sample policy offered a way to book excess inventory as a sales cost rather than present a write off as junk. So they were willing to send out a lot of excess inventory to what might be otherwise considered dubious future buyers. There was a time when Maxim and Microchip were quite generous with what they sent out, I suspect it was a way of dumping obsolete inventory.

    In sum, there is no free lunch. Getting chips for free might be a windfall for hobbyist, but it will come and go as company policies change as they manage their sales and sales costs.

    In many cases, if you want free samples sent to you overseas, you still have to pay the shipping and handling costs to you. That is what happens to me in Taiwan. And those costs can be excessively large. Getting a credit card charge of $75 USD for a free chip with a value of $5 USD, is possible and has been mentioned here on this forum in the past.

    Electronics is an industry that provides jobs. Business can only meet payroll through sales in excesses of expenses. Think about where you fit into the big picture.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-08-27 06:31
    In similar fashion, I have found automobile manufacturers utterly unresponsive to numerous and continuous requests for free samples, despite the obvious glut of cars clogging their lots. I find their lackadaisical response curious and unproductive. Some people just don't get it. :)
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-08-27 07:08
    I am a great believer in making sure your customers are satified. I even tend to believe that 'the customer is always right' is a wise adage.

    But having been in business, there is a huge hazard in the 'potential customer' A lot of people will go to great lengths to chat you up and negotiate price, but never follow through with a purchase. Others will pay half-down, take the merchanise and never pay the balance. Some will just be picking your brain with idea that they can start a similar business based on your insight ( This has happened to me more than once.)

    I have had projects where I hired 12 guys to relandscape a client's home and then he decides that he wants to pay 50% of my billing for no reason. Under law, I have to meet the payroll and payroll taxes and insurance... or go to Federal jail. Penalties for late payments are 100%. Do I consider the guy an 'unsatisfied customer' and let him have his way? Or do I filed a lien on his home and threaten to sell his home out from under him if he doesn't pay up? My feeling is that he never was a customer, never could be satisfied, and needs to honor his contract unless there is a good reason for renegotiating terms.

    The Japanese economy has been struggling for decades, so they apparently are not giving free samples or don't give them to overseas inquiry over the internet. No big deal.

    In the same light, I am a customer of Parallax products, and I don't ask for free samples. I don't even want them. I did take a Christmas gift one year and felt that I was expected to say nothing negative about Parallax in exchange. That was awkward. I don't like being a phony, and feel my opinion both positive and negative should be genuine. If I want to be the customer and I want to demand better, I should be willing to pay for what I get.

    In other words, the 'free samples' can cause all sorts of problems. If you really are a businessman that can produce something for resale, you should respect your supplier's generousity. After all, every business has employees and it is the leadership of the business that keeps people working. If the executives give away all the merchandise 'no questions asked' and are decieved by pretenders that claim to be 'potential customers', the economy is affected. Even if the you are lying to yourself, the world remains a 'pay as you go' place.

    As a satified customer of Parallax products, I remain loyal to Parallax. But I also speak my mind as I choose. I do attempt to be constructive and straight-forward. And at times I can be wrong, but I am paying for what I get.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2013-08-27 08:22
    CuriousOne wrote: »
    ... However, not with Japanese ones.

    Here's the small list with names of japanese companies which have free sample request, and how they "responded"

    Below is the list of other, non-japanese manufacturers, which also has sample request form, but never delivered any,...

    So its not just "Japanese companies", its "Companies" in general. Consider adjusting the title, it puts things in better perspective.

    Rich people get rich by getting money and keeping it. Business people do business. These sets may overlap.
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2013-08-27 09:46
    The request was made to U.S. departments of respective Japanese companies. Not Japan headquarters.

    The tittle is correct, because the list of "other" companies that do give samples is at least 5x times bigger than the listed one. Just I keep that part for myself.

    So say, 80% of U.S. companies give samples, and no Japanese company does.
  • Mike GMike G Posts: 2,702
    edited 2013-08-27 09:51
    Tip: Take your kid to the local grocery store and get a free cookie from the Baker. Sometimes they let Dad have a cookie too. That's a good deal :)
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2013-08-27 09:52
    So you asked for free samples from at least 17 different companies? These samples were all for applications with a reasonable chance of becoming a commercial product?
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2013-08-27 09:53
    Unlike with American companies, business with Japanese companies is based upon relationships, not just filling out a form on the web. Try to make personal contact with the U.S.-based product manager for the part you're looking for. Explain to them what your application is and what your anticipated annual need will be. Be very specific about your sample requirements, i.e. how many units it will take to effectively evaluate the part and how soon you will know whether it will work for you. If you come off as just fishing for free stuff, your request will most likely be politely rebuffed.

    Anyway, this is what has worked for me.

    -Phil
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2013-08-27 09:57
    Some companies, Japanese or otherwise, are generous and some are not. Some companies feel that "investing" in hobbyists, particularly where the parts cost and transportation / handling costs are low, is a good thing and others feel differently. Things change as international commerce becomes easier and cheaper and many of the companies that used to give away parts now provide easy to use and inexpensive webstores for small quantities of their parts. It used to be that you just couldn't get small quantities of a lot of parts. Now it's easy, but not free.

    I've gotten a few free parts from some companies and I've been completely above board with them ... that I've got a specific personal project ... and explained what it is and why I want to use their product in it. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't.
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2013-08-27 10:10
    So you asked for free samples from at least 17 different companies?

    Yes. In fact, my list of free sample suppliers has about 100 entries, most of them not listed on ladyada free sample suppliers list and so on.

    None of components requested were "just for fun", nor device is being build for fun and time wasting. We're building a prototype for commercial product, after completion of which, the project on kickstarter will be posted, and device will enter into commercial manufacturing stage. We definetly not doing the "hobbyst" task and where asked, we provided as much details as possible.

    From the "big guys", microchip was the most helpfull one, ON semiconductor also provided nice technical support via email (we had trouble with certain IC, and they hooked us with guy at ON, who actually designed that IC). Analog also provided great help. In terms of commercial cost of parts provided, Fairchild and Linear were most helpful ones, total cost of parts provided by each, maybe be up to $400!

    Initial idea was, to build complete prototype using ONLY free samples available. We almost succeed in the task, the only problematic part was high voltage, high capacity electrolytic capacitors, but one chinese company agreed to provide 5 pieces of 450v, 470uf capacitors for free.

    Long story short, when finished, there will be more details published, but japanese companies really dissapointed us.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2013-08-27 10:24
    I see. PhiPi's analysis is probabely well worth looking into.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2013-08-27 10:34
    I think you have an intriguing goal, but way beyond what is and was intended for the "free sample" mechanism. That you did as well as you have is excellent (for you and your project), but I think you're too hard on the companies that didn't send you samples. I think Phil is right in that you could have worked harder at establishing relationships with vendors, distributors, and manufacturer's representatives. Sometimes the distributors and representatives will "go to bat" for you with the manufacturer's sales or engineering departments and get you parts outside of the normal channels that might otherwise be closed to you.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2013-08-27 10:50
    In another life I used to review consumer video products for the then-popular video and home theater magazines. Almost all of it eventually had to go back (do this for a while it becomes seriously UNfun to review this stuff), but I always had the best experiences with the Japanese companies or their American headquarters. Those firms that ran their review samples through an American PR agency were THE WORST. There was one in particular that after a while I refused to work with them, which was a bit awkward because of their market size.

    Phil's notion of building relationships is spot-on. Just getting a couple of freebie parts to try out is, in my mind, only half the battle. Having developed inside tracks I've sometimes gotten pre-release info about new parts and products that has put me ahead of the competition. In my business, new is king.
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2013-08-27 10:51
    The strategy is as follows:

    1. Create parts list needed.
    2. Check for companies who make it (make a list)
    3. Sort the list into 2 categories - companies that provide free samples (have apropriate request form) and ones that does not.
    4. Try to get parts from companies that do offer free samples.
    5. If unsuccessfull, try to find more companies with apropriate product and free samples.
  • Mike GMike G Posts: 2,702
    edited 2013-08-27 11:02
    I've had the opportunity to work with companies in Japan and Taiwan. From my experiences, Phil is spot on.
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2013-08-27 11:06
    Yes, I understand, but then why they have sample request form on their website if they want personal relations? Just for formality? And for Toshiba for example, it works just like for the ST - three's list of parts available, part quantity is limited, total amount is also limited, in other words, it looks just like another sample request form.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2013-08-27 11:35
    They probably have a sample request form because others in the business have them. You can always try the sample request form first, then start with the US distributors and representatives asking not so much for the parts, but explaining what you're trying to do (not mentioning the sample request forms) and asking for advice and suggestions.
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2013-08-27 11:36
    CuriousOne wrote: »
    Yes, I understand, but then why they have sample request form on their website if they want personal relations? Just for formality? And for Toshiba for example, it works just like for the ST - three's list of parts available, part quantity is limited, total amount is also limited, in other words, it looks just like another sample request form.

    The purpose of free samples is to let designers try out the product with the goal of selling product.

    It sounds like your goal is to publish a project that people can build from mostly free samples, that doesn't really fit with the goal of these companies.

    C.W.
  • Mike GMike G Posts: 2,702
    edited 2013-08-27 11:41
    Dunno... contact the company and find out. Marginalizing companies will not help with your quest for free samples.
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2013-08-27 11:59
    We don't intend to build a serious product, that you can build from free samples. Our goal is to do a prototype with free samples if possible. The final product will need too many custom manufactured parts, which can't be free.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2013-08-27 12:52
    How many of these kickstarter jobbies do you plan on making available to casual "sample" requesters?
    Why not finance this venture yourself?
    How big a deal can it be otherwise?
    Why not spend your own money?
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2013-08-27 13:21
    A lot of ours money is spend on pcb manufacturing, assembly, prototyping and so on.

    When finished, manufacturing will be handled to professional company.
  • phatallicaphatallica Posts: 64
    edited 2013-08-27 15:13
    Unlike with American companies, business with Japanese companies is based upon relationships, not just filling out a form on the web. Try to make personal contact with the U.S.-based product manager for the part you're looking for. Explain to them what your application is and what your anticipated annual need will be. Be very specific about your sample requirements, i.e. how many units it will take to effectively evaluate the part and how soon you will know whether it will work for you. If you come off as just fishing for free stuff, your request will most likely be politely rebuffed.

    Anyway, this is what has worked for me.

    -Phil

    Phil-san, you write the truth.
    My day job is product manager for a Japanese company (to remain anonymous). I also happen to be interim business unit manager for our custom solutions built here in the USA. I treat all customers as though they want to find the optimal solution for their specific conditions, requirements, schedule, usage, etc. If they engage in an adult conversation, then I will do what is reasonable to help them accompish their business goals.

    Our website has a link to request samples. Always feel free to ask, but it is not reasonable to pre-suppose that my answer is "yes". Something that looks like a fishing expedition will be referred to our sales team to try to find or build a business case to give away the fruit of our labor.
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2013-08-28 00:02
    erco wrote: »
    In similar fashion, I have found automobile manufacturers utterly unresponsive to numerous and continuous requests for free samples, despite the obvious glut of cars clogging their lots. I find their lackadaisical response curious and unproductive. Some people just don't get it. :)
    ROFL - Let me know if you find one!
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2013-08-28 09:01
    Well, I provided useful, practical information. Ones who need it, will use it. Others... :P
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-08-28 09:14
    So its not just "Japanese companies", its "Companies" in general. Consider adjusting the title, it puts things in better perspective.

    Rich people get rich by getting money and keeping it. Business people do business. These sets may overlap.

    Nice suggestion. I opened the newpaper last Sunday or so to "San Francisco Threatened by Wildfire" and the story was about the Yosemite fire.. hundreds of miles away.

    ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
    On another note, a lot of websites seem to fall behind on keeping up with what the company policy really is. There are lots of sites that ask you to fill out forms and request that never lead to anything.

    At one time, they may have actually provided free samples, but the policy changed and somebody forgot to request the web page be removed. Or they just down-sized the department that the request that were referred to zero and there was no one mention the overlooked detail.

    If you free want free samples, try consumable items - junk food, tobacco, cosmetics, alcohol, patent medicines, weekends in Las Vega. Or become an extreme coupon collector. There are enterprises that do give away quite a bit to keep their name in the public's minds.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-29 00:48
    I once got a pile of PIC's and AVR's as free samples.
    That's why I got into the Propeller:)
  • MicksterMickster Posts: 2,694
    edited 2013-08-29 01:54
    Just recently, I procured a couple of "dead-man" safety-enable push-buttons. These are typically used on machine teach-pendants where the operator must squeeze the button to a mid position to make the contacts. Squeeze too hard and the contacts open (the reasoning being that when panicked, some people squeeze rather than release).

    This is not an off-the-shelf item at any of my local distributors so I called the manufacturer to ask where I could simply purchase a couple of these devices. The sales guy became curious about my application and when I told him, he became quite excited and offered to send me some units FOC.

    I wish to heck that he would've just sold me the darn things because now he keeps bugging me about the progress of my development.


    Mickster.
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