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How to override HVAC outputs via BS2? — Parallax Forums

How to override HVAC outputs via BS2?

fatmanonabikefatmanonabike Posts: 5
edited 2013-08-12 17:42 in BASIC Stamp
So my wife insists on running the AC thermostat 30 deg F below ambient. Consequently here in a Texas summer the bills are killing me. I put together a cheesy little program that closes a relay contact for 40 mins then opens for 20 mins,thus reducing the AC duty cycle from 100% to 60%.. I believe I've located the call for AC wire into which I'll place this normally open contact.

My question to the HVAC gurus is will the single contact shut down the fan and the compressor or will only the compressor be affected?

Comments

  • SapphireSapphire Posts: 496
    edited 2013-08-07 18:10
    That depends on your HVAC system. How many wires and what color are they at the thermostat?

    R=+24V AC power (sometimes Rc and Rh)
    Y=Cooling
    W=Heating
    G=Fan

    Most thermostats close R-Y and R-G for cooling; R-W and R-G for heating. Some cooling units don't require the R-G connection. You'll have to try and see how your system operates. Opening R-Y will shut down the compressor. The fan will still run if R-G is closed by the thermostat.

    If you only have R-Y wires, then the fan is automatic. If you have B or O wires, then you have a heat pump system. Don't try to control that without understanding how it works.
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2013-08-08 14:51
    Sapphire,

    I just wanted to step in and say thanks for posting that information. I recently took a photo of the wiring on my HVAC controller wanting to replace it with something homebrew and realized I didn't know exactly what was what on it. I never had central air in NY, just a furnace. Your reply saved me a Google search. :thumb:

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  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2013-08-08 15:09
    Sapphire wrote: »
    Most thermostats close R-Y and R-G for cooling; R-Y and R-G for heating.

    How's that go? [You have that the same both ways, yes?]
  • SapphireSapphire Posts: 496
    edited 2013-08-08 15:43
    PJ, Yes. For non auto-changeover thermostats, the G contact is made with the same relay as the Y or W contact, and the HEAT or COOL switch selects which one it is. Otherwise backfeed, right? For auto-changeover thermostats, there are separate relays (or triacs) for Y, W and G.

    Chris, glad to be of help. I built a BS2p-based dual-zone auto-changeover thermostat with outdoor sensor that works much better than most commercial products for my needs.

    Thermostat 002.jpg
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  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2013-08-08 16:05
    Sapphire,

    I did a digital thermostat for my furnace in NY some years ago. Since I have been out here I have wanted to create my own system as well, but never could see where the wires went (inside the ceiling). So I took that photo hoping to show someone and get the info and you posted that at the right time. Your system looks very nice. Do you have a project page for it with the schematic and or code? I'd love to compare what I have drafted to something actually in service.
  • SapphireSapphire Posts: 496
    edited 2013-08-08 16:33
    Chris,

    I haven't done a project page yet, but planed to. I'll let you know when it's up.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2013-08-08 17:06
    Sapphire wrote: »
    That depends on your HVAC system. How many wires and what color are they at the thermostat?

    R=+24V AC power (sometimes Rc and Rh)
    Y=Cooling
    W=Heating
    G=Fan

    Most thermostats close R-Y and R-G for cooling; R-Y and R-G for heating.

    So, that's R-Y & R-G for Cool and the same for Heat?
    Sapphire wrote: »
    PJ, Yes. For non auto-changeover thermostats, the G contact is made with the same relay as the Y or W contact, and the HEAT or COOL switch selects which one it is. Otherwise backfeed, right?

    If R-Y & R-G are for Cool then how can they be for Heat, too.
    If R-Y & R-G are for Cool then isn't Heat R-W and R-G?
    If not then what's W for?
  • SapphireSapphire Posts: 496
    edited 2013-08-08 17:44
    Oops, you're right. I meant R-W for heat, not R-Y. Sorry!
  • fatmanonabikefatmanonabike Posts: 5
    edited 2013-08-10 12:53
    Sapphire wrote: »
    That depends on your HVAC system. How many wires and what color are they at the thermostat?

    R=+24V AC power (sometimes Rc and Rh)
    Y=Cooling
    W=Heating
    G=Fan

    Most thermostats close R-Y and R-G for cooling; R-W and R-G for heating. Some cooling units don't require the R-G connection. You'll have to try and see how your system operates. Opening R-Y will shut down the compressor. The fan will still run if R-G is closed by the thermostat.

    If you only have R-Y wires, then the fan is automatic. If you have B or O wires, then you have a heat pump system. Don't try to control that without understanding how it works.

    Thanks much for such a complete response I too would be very interested in seeing your project docs, I never figured out how to scan a keypad. Looks like the my colors are different, naturally, but it seems that the red is the 24 VAC wetting voltage and the yellow wire seems to be the call for AC. If the fan runs or not that's ok but my guess is as you said that it's automatic. Clip leads and a battery and I'm in service. Thanks all!
  • tonyp12tonyp12 Posts: 1,951
    edited 2013-08-10 13:08
    Does the thermostat have a way of changing the hysteria?,
    A higher one for example 2deg should make the unit cycle on/off for longer periods.

    I ended up getting a 4-a-day-times programmable thermostat and made it go off (by having a 82deg setting =off)
    for 30minutes at 6am to give it a chance to defrost if it been on for 23hours.
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywell-1-Week-Programmable-Thermostat-RTH221B/202216462#specifications

    basic-thermostat-wiring-diagram.JPG
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2013-08-10 14:08
    tonyp12 wrote: »
    Does the thermostat have a way of changing the hysteria?

    Hysteresis.
  • FranklinFranklin Posts: 4,747
    edited 2013-08-10 14:34
    quote_icon.png Originally Posted by PJAllen
    Originally Posted by
    tonyp12viewpost-right.pngDoes the thermostat have a way of changing the hysteria?



    Hysteresis.
    Hysteria might be correct if your thermostat isn't working the way you would like.
  • tonyp12tonyp12 Posts: 1,951
    edited 2013-08-10 14:56
    Hysteria vs Hysteresis.
    The words are related, a person with Hysteria have the lack calm Hysteresis.
    So Electronics can behave in a Hysteria'n way, at least that what I'm sticking to and slowly I'm changing the English language :)
    I blame it on auto spell check as my first guess of spelling it was more correctly.
  • sam_sam_samsam_sam_sam Posts: 2,286
    edited 2013-08-12 15:41
    R = power from one side of the tranformer red wire
    Y = compressor contactor [most of the time it yellow some time it is blue wire ]
    G = in door fan relay green wire
    W = Heating element relay or contactor white wire
    O = reversing value coil [sometime it means this] it can be any color but most of the time it orange
    C = the other side of the tranformer can be what ever color is left
  • sam_sam_samsam_sam_sam Posts: 2,286
    edited 2013-08-12 15:43
    This is the most common setup for most heat pumps .....> for heating and cooling for what the letters meanAprilaireIntelligentThermostatWiring.gif
  • sam_sam_samsam_sam_sam Posts: 2,286
    edited 2013-08-12 16:37
    tonyp12 wrote: »
    Does the thermostat have a way of changing the hysteria?,
    A higher one for example 2deg should make the unit cycle on/off for longer periods.

    Some do but they are hard to fine and they cost alot more money
    But that NOT all of it these thermostat are harder to wire and you have to know how to set them up which takes some doing

    In a past life I was a AC Tech for about ten years

    If you are going to built thermosat here are some thing to keep in mind...>

    One Is that depending on your home and how much shade you have over your roof and what type windows and insulation you may have to much of a spread if use 2 deg between unit being ON and OFF

    There maybe a beter way use a humdaty sensor and if you have to much have the unit come one for 15 minutes or to the SET POINT at slower fan speed if that fan has that set up some of the more costly thermostat have that set up

    You could have humdaty / temp mode when you are not at home but here is some thing to keep in mind you do not want the temp that you have when you are at home and the temp when you are not at home to be more than 5deg if your span is more than it will take a long time to cool down again and you power bill will cost you more than if you keep the same temp all the time

    I know this because I have done this in the past when my son was not at home for the summer and you can save money on your power bill if you do it the right way

    Here is a way to find out if your span is to much come home one day early and see how long your AC unit stays on until it shut OFF if it take longer than an hour your span is to large and if less than 1/2 hour it could be to short 3/4 to 1 hour is when you know your span is right

    This if your AC unit come ON and shut OFF is about [ 15 to 20 minutes ] long and that if your OFF to ON time [ 10 to 15 minutes ] when the temp is normal when your at home

    If the running time is longer than 30 to 45 minutes and your OFF time is less 10 minutes this might work for you long run

    I hope this helps

    I will keep an eye on this post to see what happens
  • sam_sam_samsam_sam_sam Posts: 2,286
    edited 2013-08-12 17:42
    My question to the HVAC gurus is will the single contact shut down the fan and the compressor or will only the compressor be affected?

    Yes if you use the yellow wire but make sure that cut off the outside unit and if you want the in side fan to shut off then you will have do the same thing with the green wire as well but use two different contact on your relay NOT ONE

    Read the post above
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