Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
"Can I have fries to go with it" — Parallax Forums

"Can I have fries to go with it"

skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
edited 2013-08-08 11:06 in General Discussion
The first "synthetic" burger is to be eaten today at a restaurant, it's not cheap, will it taste ok? They say that in 10-20 years time it could replace conventional sources of meat.
It would mean less bovines needed to be bred and fed, more agricultural land and cereal available for human consumption rather than animal feed too.

Meat made in a lab, doesn't grab the tastebuds so easily and I can't help thinking about "Soylent Green" but if it becomes economically and edibly viable then a lot of vegetarians will be pleased as it will cut the amount of animals slaughtered.

Wonder if McDonalds are taking an interest?
«13

Comments

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-05 04:52
    Sounds gross.

    I can't imagine the energy balance works out. Currently we have:
    1) Fields full of grass grow using the sun as their enery source.
    2) Cows eat the grass thus getting the energy they require to become juicy steaks.
    3) We eat the cows.

    Now, if we are growing meat in a factory and we have turned all the land over to growing plants for biofules for cars (seems to be a growing idea recently) then where is the energy going to come from?.

    Vegetarians who refuse to eat meat because it requires killing animals have not really thought the thing through.
    Consider:
    1) Most large animals that are not farmed or domesticated are on the verge of becomming extinct due to the growth of the human race. Many of them already have.
    2) The ones that are thriving in huge numbers are exactly the ones we eat. cows, sheep, pigs etc.

    I conclude that if all humans suddenly adopted that vegetarian stance and meat consumption ceased it would be a very short time before cows, pigs, sheep etc joined the endangered spieces list.

    Conclusion: If you want to save animals, eat them!

    Having said that, I would like to see our food animals living in much better conditions. We should have respect for them and they should have happier lives. Besides it makes for a better meal in the end.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2013-08-05 05:44
    Animals are gross. They live in their own filth and are infested with parasites.

    Humans have domesticated themselves to expect processed foods, including meat. We look at a steak and say, "that looks tasty!" We don't look at a cow and say "that looks tasty!"
    Most folks I know are disgusted to be reminded that meat came from a real animal, and prefer not to be reminded of that small fact.

    Taste will evolve as production improves and cost goes down. When we work out how to take sunlight and directly generate plant material, and turn that directly into animal material, then we can have long term space travel. Maybe.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2013-08-05 06:23
    Animals are gross. They live in their own filth and are infested with parasites..... We don't look at a cow and say "that looks tasty!"...

    I couldn't agree more.

    photo.jpg
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2013-08-05 06:31
    The Slig was a genetically engineered hybrid created by the Bene Tleilax. The creature was a cross between a giant slug and a pig.


    The animal was considered ugly, even disgusting, with multiple mouths and skin that excreted a slimy and noxious residue. However, it was bred domestically for its meat, which was sweet, tender, and highly sought after by many across the Known Universe.
    Probably for religious reasons, the Tleilaxu did not eat the slig. However, they had no qualms with allowing powindah to pollute themselves with the unclean meat of the slig.
    Emperor Shaddam Corrino IV loved to eat slig, and the resident of the Imperium called it "the sweetest meat this side of heaven."

    As long as it is wrapped in styrofoam and clear plastic and bought, not hunted, we'll eat it!!! Throw it on the grill with some barbeque sauce and "them's good eats!"
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2013-08-05 06:41
    Meat grown in the lab (or factory) will obviously be completely without an immune system (as the immune system of any animal isn't in the meat anyway). Without an immune system the meat will constantly be attacked by microorganisms. The only way to tackle that is presumably by bathing the meat in antibiotics during the whole growth period.
    How on earth can that be good for anyone? Not to mention the unavoidable Darwinian resistance buildup and the whole thing degrading into a completely unsustainable mess.

    -Tor
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2013-08-05 07:17
    Pack it in barrels of salt, it will go well with the synthetic hard tack! :lol:
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2013-08-05 08:37
    Nummy nummy!

    All this brillig food talk has my tummy howling for some sun-dried slithy toves!
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2013-08-05 09:16
    Heater. wrote: »
    Now, if we are growing meat in a factory and we have turned all the land over to growing plants for biofules for cars (seems to be a growing idea recently) then where is the energy going to come from?.

    Animals require a lot of food to produce their meat. For every pound of animal protein grown, requires something like ten pounds of plant protein. I'd hope the artificial meat could be produced more efficiently than the natural stuff.
    When we work out how to take sunlight and directly generate plant material, and turn that directly into animal material, then we can have long term space travel. Maybe.

    I look forward to planting something which produces a "fruit" the size of a large zucchini but instead of zucchini inside it's filet mignon. I'm not sure why space travellers would need meat though.
    mindrobots wrote: »
    As long as it is wrapped in styrofoam and clear plastic and bought, not hunted, we'll eat it!!!

    I've heard several arguments to suggest the kind way to eat meat is to only eat meat killed in a hunt. This allows the animals to live normal lives while they are alive. Or as heater put it.
    Heater. wrote: »
    Having said that, I would like to see our food animals living in much better conditions. We should have respect for them and they should have happier lives. Besides it makes for a better meal in the end.

    Wouldn't the animal prefer to roaming in the wild than be penned in?
    Tor wrote: »
    Meat grown in the lab (or factory) will obviously be completely without an immune system (as the immune system of any animal isn't in the meat anyway).

    I don't see the "obviously" part. Plus I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to grow the meat in sterile conditions. Lots of foods require sterile conditions during their production. Couldn't the immune system be included in the lab grown meat (though I admit this would present problems). It would probably be easier just to keep the whole thing steril.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2013-08-05 09:38
    An immune system is one of nature's most incredible features. We're not even close to create one from scratch, and from there to invent an immune system existing in the meat itself, or in any event where no natural equivalent exists? I think it's fair to use the word "obviously" here.
    Sterile conditions on an industrial scale, with no antibiotics? Call me sceptical. Besides, the only reason antibiotics and low-germ conditions work in the first place is because there's an immune system there too: Antibiotics and other germ killers work as when you use a shovel to remove sand from a floor. Their job is to remove enough of the sand so that itttle ants (the immune system) can remove the remaining grains one by one, without getting overwhelmed. That's important because these 'grains' proliferate. You need to get rid of every one of them.

    Nature invented a perfect way of growing meat: In the form of animals.

    -Tor
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2013-08-05 09:47
    Tor wrote: »
    I think it's fair to use the word "obviously" here.

    For the record, I added the strikeout to my post above before seeing post #10.

    Nature also provides a nice sun for light. I still like my light bulbs.

    I contend (hopefully in a non-contentious way) animals are relatively inefficient at producing animal protein since they use their energy in lots of other ways beside just growing meat. I'm still hoping for my filet mignon zucchinis.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-05 10:34
    Braino,
    Animals are gross. They live in their own filth and are infested with parasites.
    I do hope you are joking.

    1) Most higher animals do not like live in their own poo. Ever checked out the behavior of rabits, pigs, cats, dogs, etc The modern day cow is a bit careless but like the sheep he is a brainless derivative of his wild ancestors for whom running around in huge areas meant being carefull with poo less important.

    2) As for parasites, did you know that 90% of the cells in your body are not human?
    We don't look at a cow and say "that looks tasty!"
    We, perhaps, do not. I do.
    When we work out how to take sunlight and directly generate plant material, and turn that directly into animal material, then we can have long term space travel.
    Really. Do tell me, when you are in deep space, where is this sunlight going to come from to power all this?
  • MicksterMickster Posts: 2,719
    edited 2013-08-05 10:48
    Heater. wrote: »
    Braino,

    I do hope you are joking.

    1) Most higher animals do not like live in their own poo.

    Maybe you should check THIS out...

    They don't even get grass either, they are fed corn to fatten 'em up quicker. At slaughter time, many of the cows cannot even walk.

    This is why I like to fill my freezer with Venison that I personally harvest.

    Regards,

    Mickster
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-05 11:06
    Mickster,

    Why have you linked us to a Netflix sign up page?

    I presume this is about cows. Did I mention above that the modern farmyard cow is a totally man made animal. Bred over millennia to maximize milk and meat. It is only a sick inbred descendent of it's fine ancestors.
  • MicksterMickster Posts: 2,719
    edited 2013-08-05 11:22
    Heater. wrote: »
    Mickster,

    Why have you linked us to a Netflix sign up page?

    Oops, really? For me it's a link to the documentary "Food Inc.". I figured the Netflix thing would be a convenient way to see it.

    I presume this is about cows. Did I mention above that the modern farmyard cow is a totally man made animal. Bred over millennia to maximize milk and meat. It is only a sick inbred descendent of it's fine ancestors.

    Yes it's about factory farming. Your statement may well be the case but what is not the case is your apparent belief that cows grow fat, happily chomping on green grass in sunny pastures.

    http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_agriculture/our-failing-food-system/industrial-agriculture/they-eat-what-the-reality-of.html


    Regards,

    Mickster
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-05 11:40
    Mickster,
    ...what is not the case is your apparent belief that cows grow fat, happily chomping on green grass in sunny pastures.

    I believe no such thing.

    I don't know about "fat" but I grew up in a world were cows were exactly "happily chomping on green grass in sunny pastures" (Well, it was sunny in the summer sometimes in England)

    I'm very aware that in the modern world this has all gone horribly wrong.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2013-08-05 15:37
    Removed due to upsetting somebody.
  • DmashekDmashek Posts: 49
    edited 2013-08-06 02:32
    Of course the latest development, meant to provide a technological bridge to our animal-less lab-grown meat-replete future, is the selective harvesting of choice cuts. Here we have a cow that, instead of being lead to slaughter, was asked to provide only what the customer had ordered that day. The cow was then supplied with whatever prosthetics were needed to carry on in its life's mission to make more meat.

    62.jpg11805_170x100.png?v=1367961949.11

    I call bull-doo on this. Who the hell would order the lower portion of a calf's legs??? A more reasonable explanation is that this calf was born with a deformity of the legs and a research veterinarian surgically attached those prosthetics. BTW, I grew up on a farm so raising and slaughtering livestock is something I am familiar with.
  • DmashekDmashek Posts: 49
    edited 2013-08-06 02:37
    well, look what you can find with just a little basic web searching...

    http://www.today.colostate.edu/story.aspx?id=2439

    The calf lost the legs to frostbite.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-06 03:10
    ElectricEye,
    Here we have a cow that, instead of being lead to slaughter, was asked to provide only what the customer had ordered that day. The cow was then supplied with whatever prosthetics were needed to carry on in its life's mission to make more meat.

    You should be ashamed of yourself. Either:
    1) You are telling that lie deliberately.
    2) You believed the lie that you heard from elsewhere without thinking.
    3) It's some kind of sick joke.

    As for connecting the McDonalds logo there. I'm not sure I get the idea. Whilst I might loath McDonalds with a passion I'm sure this is just some trumped up anti-McDonalds propaganda that I cannot condone.

    P.S. If McD served up cows feet in their restaurants that might be improvement.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2013-08-06 06:46
    Heater. wrote: »
    ElectricEye,



    You should be ashamed of yourself.....

    Got it.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2013-08-06 06:59
    Don't be too hard on ElectricAye, it was reasonably clear that it wasn't meant for real? I was simply reminded of The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

    -Tor
  • davejamesdavejames Posts: 4,047
    edited 2013-08-06 08:13
    ...my "moderator-sense" is tingling.

    Let's everyone play nice, and not have this thread go too sideways.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-06 11:17
    @ElectricAye,

    Perhaps I was too hard. On the other end of the intertubes it's often hard to fathom the original intent of the message.

    @Tor,

    Yes "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe", Millyways that is, where the genetically engineered pig like thing on the menu was intelligent, self aware, conscious and could speak. Engineered such that it's prime motivation in life was for you to enjoy eating it. In fact it wold be deeply offended if you refused.

    Thus creating a moral dilemma for those vegetarians who profess to not eat meat on moral grounds.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2013-08-06 12:01
    Heater. wrote: »
    ... On the other end of the intertubes it's often hard to fathom the original intent of the message. ....

    My apologies. I should have been more sensitive and done my research more carefully. Had I done a better job of googling things, I probably would have stumbled over Boston Dynamik's latest attempt to develop lab-grown meat manufacture while still satisfying the "free range" labeling requirements.


    big-dog-robot_custom-51bf97da63bbf25a4564ab64fa86d6973b865bcc.jpg
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2013-08-06 12:05
    mmmmmm, crunchy with a lite machine oil aftertaste! :smile:
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-06 12:40
    ElectricAye,

    Cool. Robocow !
  • TinkersALotTinkersALot Posts: 535
    edited 2013-08-06 12:44
    guns, religion, politics, and bigotry...now we can add dietary choices to the mix....the economic aristocrats at the top of the plutocratic food chain really enjoy it when the masses are frightfully argumentative among themselves so that we can ignore their crimes agin the rest of us. cheerio!

    sigh....i think i will go and code something...
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-06 12:58
    TinkersALot,
    ...i think i will go and code something

    You do that. That's exactly what the "economic aristocrats at the top of the plutocratic food chain" want you to do. Don't make a fuss.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2013-08-06 13:16
    sigh....i think i will go and code something...

    You know, depending on what you snack while you code (and other environmental conditions), you could market your code as "organic"......now, there's a money maker in some demographic groups!!
  • TinkersALotTinkersALot Posts: 535
    edited 2013-08-06 14:52
    reminded suddenly of "working john, working joe" by jethro tull.

    lyrics can be found here:
    http://www.willerup.com/tull/lyrics/a.html
Sign In or Register to comment.