If you close the language, you will miss out on new ideas from afar.
Chinese happens to be extremely closed phonetically, so words from other languages can only be included as phonetic approximations. Learning Western movie star's names in Chinese is difficult. For instance, Niclole Kiddman in Chinese is phonetically, Ni-ka Jin-men.
Also, if you were to look at Ni-ka Jin-men in Chinese characters, you would never know what it represented -- no capitalization, no ABC clues.
So, Chinese actally miss a lot of what is going on in English.
Your desire for standarized spelling and precise grammar are typical. And they are a test culture illusion.
English spelling is a mess as their at 5 vowels, and these represent about 24 sounds, with about 105 spelling combinations. The consonants are relatively reliable, but the vowel sounds are a complete train wreck.
Grammar is a whole different disaster. Why so? Grammar evolved to teach Latin, not English. And so, there is a huge amount of problems of attempting to apply the principles derived from a legacy language to a living language. At this point I think it is possible to do, but the Oxford University authoritative reference on English Grammar by Quirk, Greenbaum, et al is over a foot thick at about 1500 pages..... and even with all that effor, I have material that I personally teach that they never discovered. So of it very important to explaining the use of the perfect, imperfect, and pluperfect properly in relationship to time.
The majority of work on English Grammar is just copying what someone wrote before you without much thought of how to improve the utility of grammar.
Nothing gets improved by preserving tradition. One has to think, think, think; and then provide a better explanation.
Sadly I gave up on my Masters in TESOL at the University of Edinburg... too costly, and too muddled in teaching methology.
Your desire for standarized spelling and precise grammar are typical. And they are a test culture illusion.
Did you miss the part where I said I'm in two minds about this?
English spelling is a mess...
Yep, as I said its a bastard mix of influences from everywhere. Latin, Greek, French, Viking, Arabic on top of whatever they spoke when they were all alone building Stone Henge. Throw in some words from India and China along the way. There is no way to rationalize the spelling of all that.
"Grammar is a whole different disaster" Oh yeah, before I tried to learn some Finnish I thought English grammar made sense. Now I'm convinced they are both nuts with hardly a shred of logic behind them.
At the end of the day I think new words for new ideas is great. That is progress. What annoys me is a tendancy to see new words crop up for meanings that we already have perfectly good words for. That's just redundant. Sadly you can look up words in the dictionary but you cannot look up meanings.
What also annoys me is that "English" is no longer the language of the English. As an Englishman I reserve the right to mangle my language in whatever way I like. Think Humpty Dumpty:)
Well, I saw that you said you were of two minds, but I usually say I am ambivalent. Is that right? Or does 'of two minds' mean something else?
When I first started teaching English in Taiwan in 1994, I hated the Brits and the Aussies that also taught English in Taiwan. It seemed that everything I said, they misunderstood. Taiwanese seem to study British grammar with American vocabulary, and are thoroughly confused by Aussie phonology.
But after all these years, I've had to accept that the true corpus of English is so vast that none of us really know much of it. And now, I can even annoy my dear sister by expressing my ideas as a Brit does, while being as vague and agreeable as a Taiwanese.
I even like British English in some ways. Thank God that I never attempted Norweigan! What little I know about it is very frightening.
I started working on a serious comparison of Chinese Grammar and English Grammar for myself this year. It is very very interesting and has force me to learn more about linguistics.
"Two minds" = "ambivalent" Yep. With one mind I can maintain one point of view, with my other mind I can maintain the opposite point of view just as fiercely.
...true corpus of English is so vast that none of us really know much of it.
That is for sure true. Like C++ has become but a million times worse.
I even like British English in some ways.
Now this gets my hackles up.
When I first ever saw a language selection dialogue box in MS Word or such I was in shock when I saw "British English" or "English UK" or whatever as an option.
Excuse me, but there is actually a country called England. And the language the English people speak is English. Not "British English" or "English UK". The English language is whatever goes on among the English people. Those out there who speak the English language but choose to mangle it it their own way, as is their right of course, should call it something else.
P.S. Actually you would be hard put to tell that there is actually a country called England now a days. There is no mention of it in my passport for example.
...Excuse me, but there is actually a country called England. And the language the English people speak is English. ...Those out there who speak the English language but choose to mangle it it their own way... should call it something else. ....
Well I don't know why that was subtitled.. I for the most part had no trouble with that dialect and I'm not English.
-Tor
Long ago, I was given the task of doing some geology mapping in Norway, tromping around the countryside and getting rock samples. I was provided with a translator, a native Norwegian who was supposed to help me when it came time to ask farmers, etc. for permission to take samples. Having a translator seemed silly to me because almost everyone I met could speak English incredibly well. Only once did I encounter a farmer who could not understand me, so I waved for my translator to come to my assistance. I listened as the two men doo-hoo-dee-hoo-dee'd back and forth. Finally, when we got back into our vehicle, my translator said he thinks it's okay for us to get rock samples, but he honestly could not understand most of what the farmer was saying because he spoke with some kind of "strange old dialect." I've had similar experiences in other countries, too, where the translators were at a total loss over the local dialects.
And many of my childhood friends could never understand a word my grandparents said:
"Two minds" = "ambivalent" Yep. With one mind I can maintain one point of view, with my other mind I can maintain the opposite point of view just as fiercely.
That is for sure true. Like C++ has become but a million times worse.
Now this gets my hackles up.
When I first ever saw a language selection dialogue box in MS Word or such I was in shock when I saw "British English" or "English UK" or whatever as an option.
Excuse me, but there is actually a country called England. And the language the English people speak is English. Not "British English" or "English UK". The English language is whatever goes on among the English people. Those out there who speak the English language but choose to mangle it it their own way, as is their right of course, should call it something else.
P.S. Actually you would be hard put to tell that there is actually a country called England now a days. There is no mention of it in my passport for example.
Hmmm. interesting what you say about being of two minds. Seems that I've no way of knowing the 'true you'.
And I am sorry, I take the American point of view about English. American has no official language. If fact, the State of California offers driver's license exams in English, Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese, and maybe even Korean.
This seems to be a typical process of evolution of a language. The originating region tries to preserve the language as their national identity, while it expanses into being a lingua franca in other places. Propigaton just seems to be part of what a living language is. America asserted freedom of speech and freedom of press and I guess the British being the target of all that required the formost language of democracy to be English.
The world works in mysterious ways, and the dispersal of English across the globe is an interesting mystery. I suspect that many British colonies would not have been so diligent to learn English if the laws of the land had been written in their local languages. But it is hard to undo what was once done.
Oddly, the USA feels the need to have all its law written in English as well. Hong Kong actually has everything in both English and Chinese.
As far as teaching a second language, one can only teach the beginning. There is no end to what one has to learn.
Hmmm. interesting what you say about being of two minds. Seems that I've no way of knowing the 'true you'.
Let's not take this to literally. The "being in two minds" thing is a common expression about the situation where you have not been able to make up your mind and arrive at a final decision.
Of course that can get philosophical. Ask me if I believe in God or not. Well, sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Now, how does one embed videos in posts like those above? I have to present my favourite example of "British English".
Inside of a set of brackets [ ] place the word "video", then place the link, then inside a final set of brackets place "/video" but do not place any quotes around the words. Does that make sense?
Try to learn English by watching Monty Pyton and Dr. Who. Or maybe just watch the original Mickey Mouse Club.
I am spending more and more time watching Taiwanese TV to improve my listening. But comedians and cult figures are some of the hardest to sort out. Diaster news is the easiest --- they seem to repeat themselves a huge number of times.
Comments
Chinese happens to be extremely closed phonetically, so words from other languages can only be included as phonetic approximations. Learning Western movie star's names in Chinese is difficult. For instance, Niclole Kiddman in Chinese is phonetically, Ni-ka Jin-men.
Also, if you were to look at Ni-ka Jin-men in Chinese characters, you would never know what it represented -- no capitalization, no ABC clues.
So, Chinese actally miss a lot of what is going on in English.
Your desire for standarized spelling and precise grammar are typical. And they are a test culture illusion.
English spelling is a mess as their at 5 vowels, and these represent about 24 sounds, with about 105 spelling combinations. The consonants are relatively reliable, but the vowel sounds are a complete train wreck.
Grammar is a whole different disaster. Why so? Grammar evolved to teach Latin, not English. And so, there is a huge amount of problems of attempting to apply the principles derived from a legacy language to a living language. At this point I think it is possible to do, but the Oxford University authoritative reference on English Grammar by Quirk, Greenbaum, et al is over a foot thick at about 1500 pages..... and even with all that effor, I have material that I personally teach that they never discovered. So of it very important to explaining the use of the perfect, imperfect, and pluperfect properly in relationship to time.
The majority of work on English Grammar is just copying what someone wrote before you without much thought of how to improve the utility of grammar.
Nothing gets improved by preserving tradition. One has to think, think, think; and then provide a better explanation.
Sadly I gave up on my Masters in TESOL at the University of Edinburg... too costly, and too muddled in teaching methology.
Did you miss the part where I said I'm in two minds about this? Yep, as I said its a bastard mix of influences from everywhere. Latin, Greek, French, Viking, Arabic on top of whatever they spoke when they were all alone building Stone Henge. Throw in some words from India and China along the way. There is no way to rationalize the spelling of all that.
"Grammar is a whole different disaster" Oh yeah, before I tried to learn some Finnish I thought English grammar made sense. Now I'm convinced they are both nuts with hardly a shred of logic behind them.
At the end of the day I think new words for new ideas is great. That is progress. What annoys me is a tendancy to see new words crop up for meanings that we already have perfectly good words for. That's just redundant. Sadly you can look up words in the dictionary but you cannot look up meanings.
What also annoys me is that "English" is no longer the language of the English. As an Englishman I reserve the right to mangle my language in whatever way I like. Think Humpty Dumpty:)
When I first started teaching English in Taiwan in 1994, I hated the Brits and the Aussies that also taught English in Taiwan. It seemed that everything I said, they misunderstood. Taiwanese seem to study British grammar with American vocabulary, and are thoroughly confused by Aussie phonology.
But after all these years, I've had to accept that the true corpus of English is so vast that none of us really know much of it. And now, I can even annoy my dear sister by expressing my ideas as a Brit does, while being as vague and agreeable as a Taiwanese.
I even like British English in some ways. Thank God that I never attempted Norweigan! What little I know about it is very frightening.
I started working on a serious comparison of Chinese Grammar and English Grammar for myself this year. It is very very interesting and has force me to learn more about linguistics.
"Two minds" = "ambivalent" Yep. With one mind I can maintain one point of view, with my other mind I can maintain the opposite point of view just as fiercely. That is for sure true. Like C++ has become but a million times worse. Now this gets my hackles up.
When I first ever saw a language selection dialogue box in MS Word or such I was in shock when I saw "British English" or "English UK" or whatever as an option.
Excuse me, but there is actually a country called England. And the language the English people speak is English. Not "British English" or "English UK". The English language is whatever goes on among the English people. Those out there who speak the English language but choose to mangle it it their own way, as is their right of course, should call it something else.
P.S. Actually you would be hard put to tell that there is actually a country called England now a days. There is no mention of it in my passport for example.
Uh, and that would be...???
-Tor
Long ago, I was given the task of doing some geology mapping in Norway, tromping around the countryside and getting rock samples. I was provided with a translator, a native Norwegian who was supposed to help me when it came time to ask farmers, etc. for permission to take samples. Having a translator seemed silly to me because almost everyone I met could speak English incredibly well. Only once did I encounter a farmer who could not understand me, so I waved for my translator to come to my assistance. I listened as the two men doo-hoo-dee-hoo-dee'd back and forth. Finally, when we got back into our vehicle, my translator said he thinks it's okay for us to get rock samples, but he honestly could not understand most of what the farmer was saying because he spoke with some kind of "strange old dialect." I've had similar experiences in other countries, too, where the translators were at a total loss over the local dialects.
And many of my childhood friends could never understand a word my grandparents said:
Hmmm. interesting what you say about being of two minds. Seems that I've no way of knowing the 'true you'.
And I am sorry, I take the American point of view about English. American has no official language. If fact, the State of California offers driver's license exams in English, Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese, and maybe even Korean.
This seems to be a typical process of evolution of a language. The originating region tries to preserve the language as their national identity, while it expanses into being a lingua franca in other places. Propigaton just seems to be part of what a living language is. America asserted freedom of speech and freedom of press and I guess the British being the target of all that required the formost language of democracy to be English.
The world works in mysterious ways, and the dispersal of English across the globe is an interesting mystery. I suspect that many British colonies would not have been so diligent to learn English if the laws of the land had been written in their local languages. But it is hard to undo what was once done.
Oddly, the USA feels the need to have all its law written in English as well. Hong Kong actually has everything in both English and Chinese.
As far as teaching a second language, one can only teach the beginning. There is no end to what one has to learn.
Of course that can get philosophical. Ask me if I believe in God or not. Well, sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Or am I schizophrenic? We'll see.
Now, how does one embed videos in posts like those above? I have to present my favourite example of "British English".
Inside of a set of brackets [ ] place the word "video", then place the link, then inside a final set of brackets place "/video" but do not place any quotes around the words. Does that make sense?
Perhaps we should get back back to our normal program of Propeller activities now.
Maybe it's odd but I could follow Nesbitt better than this other dood.
I am spending more and more time watching Taiwanese TV to improve my listening. But comedians and cult figures are some of the hardest to sort out. Diaster news is the easiest --- they seem to repeat themselves a huge number of times.
Let's try something easier then:
It would be a little less difficult comprehending what he is saying if the audio was in sync.
It would be easier if his language was in sync
Off the rails and into the twilight zone for some.
But who's got time for such nonsense?