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Hmm...OBEX — Parallax Forums

Hmm...OBEX

Mag748Mag748 Posts: 266
edited 2013-05-14 06:35 in Propeller 1
I'm here to "talk about what might be happening" to the OBEX. Anyone know?

Thanks,
Marcus

Comments

  • Bobb FwedBobb Fwed Posts: 1,119
    edited 2013-04-23 15:55
    A remodel. Which I heard was supposed to be done like a week or two ago. We are all eager for a new OBEX, because the old one was lacking.
    There's still the old obex... http://obexclassic.parallax.com/
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2013-04-23 16:10
    Bobb Fwed wrote: »
    A remodel. Which I heard was supposed to be done like a week or two ago. We are all eager for a new OBEX, because the old one was lacking.
    There's still the old obex... http://obexclassic.parallax.com/

    Ken mentioned it a few days ago:

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/147468-About-to-put-first-object-into-OBEX-Can-someone-review-it-first?highlight=OBEX
  • ratronicratronic Posts: 1,451
    edited 2013-04-24 09:08
    Is the old OBEX going to be included with the new OBEX? If not does that mean we have a limited amount of time to retrieve what we want from the old OBEX? Or maybe somekind of zip file could be made of all of the objects in the old OBEX if it is going away?
  • Bobb FwedBobb Fwed Posts: 1,119
    edited 2013-04-24 09:09
    I'm sure all the objects, and most of the information will be transferred over.
    A lot of work would be lost if they didn't.
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,664
    edited 2013-04-24 09:48
    Obex is going crazy. The forums are full of references to the old one, and for the past few days it has been down and redirecting over to obexclassic.parallax.com. I referred someone to that with a link, but now the old obex is back up with no apparent changes, and obexclassic goes nowhere.

    I hope this transition can be implemented with smooth forwarding of links from old to new. It makes more sense to me to leave the old one at obex and call the new one newbex or something like that.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,392
    edited 2013-04-25 08:30
    Hey guys!

    Yes, there's so much going on and I've been quiet about dropping hints. When the gag order is lifted I've got more to talk about that you could imagine. OBEX has been redesigned from the ground up in a Drupal framework that integrates with our new web site. This is a long-term effort to make a functional, reliable tool with single-sign in, fast response, and to provide support for more C. In this process we have done many things:
    • Moved all objects to the new system, eliminating many along the way.
    • Rewriting descriptions, looking closely at the whole object.
    • Implemented a new rating system with three levels.
    • Developed a new signup process (everybody will get an e-mail from us shortly, written by Jeff Martin).
    • Redefined the prior-known Gold Standard, to be required for the top level "core" objects.
    • Removed all references to C from Imagecraft or Catalina, and it will now only support PropGCC code libraries.
    I'm in Taipei right now with Jessica to train their universities on Prop GCC for education (about 30+ Learn pages you haven't seen with new libraries, some under development) so I'm a tad out of sync and will remain that way until OPC when I get home. But last time I heard, the new OBEX isn't live because of the need to divorce the former system's e-mail from the licensing claws of Microsoft's SQL server and Exchange (we're moving to Google). That's the only hangup since the web address names seem to be properly resolved. I'm sure Jim E is working feverishly to solve this problem.

    We've had amazing effort into this project over the last 90 days from Bump Jacobs, Jeff Ledger (@Propeller Powered), Jeff Martin, Daniel Harris, Jen Jacobs and Jim Ewald. This group pulled together a great effort and a result far beyond what I expected.

    @Tracy A: that's something I can't answer, unfortunately. I think I know the answer (we're probably using new links) because the backwards-compatibility would have thrown us into a long-term coding cycle that we couldn't exit [leaving us with NO new OBEX in the end].

    We hope you will enjoy the new OBEX as soon as it becomes visible!

    Sincerely,

    Ken Gracey
  • Bobb FwedBobb Fwed Posts: 1,119
    edited 2013-04-25 09:06
    Well, I'm excited. I really like the Gold Standard idea.

    You say "eliminating many along the way". Are you removing objects that don't serve a certain purpose, are just not well written, or aren't actually useful? Does that have to do with the "looking closely at the whole object" thing? Seems like a lot of work to look at all the objects, I'm guessing you are only looking at the Parallax-created ones?
  • Jeff MartinJeff Martin Posts: 758
    edited 2013-04-25 11:25
    Bobb Fwed wrote: »
    You say "eliminating many along the way". Are you removing objects that don't serve a certain purpose, are just not well written, or aren't actually useful? Does that have to do with the "looking closely at the whole object" thing? Seems like a lot of work to look at all the objects, I'm guessing you are only looking at the Parallax-created ones?

    Sorry about the confusion. Actually, we've removed very few, < 1% and we applied specific rules to decide whether or not to eliminate them, such as "Do they appear to be infected with a virus," "Do they conflict with our goals for the Propeller," or "Are they majorly broken and appear abandoned." Nearly all existing objects made it over.

    If any are found to be missing, please contact us at obex.support@parallax.com so we can resolve it.
  • fixmaxfixmax Posts: 91
    edited 2013-04-25 12:42
    "Removed all references to C from Imagecraft or Catalina, and it will now only support PropGCC code libraries..."

    Wow, that isn't good for Catalina folks..
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2013-04-25 12:52
    fixmax wrote: »
    "Removed all references to C from Imagecraft or Catalina, and it will now only support PropGCC code libraries..."

    Wow, that isn't good for Catalina folks..
    Certainly some C or C++ code is generic and can be compiled by any conformant compiler. Any ANSI C code should compiler with either PropGCC or Catalina. Maybe compiler-specific code could just be marked with a keyword that indicates which compiler is required? Also, can one post Forth code to OBEX? What about code written in Basics other than PropBasic? Is there really a need to be so restrictive? I'm going to really be upset when I go to post my Lisp code and it gets rejected! :-)
  • Erik FriesenErik Friesen Posts: 1,071
    edited 2013-04-25 18:57
    The number of times downloaded is now gone, maybe we can all feel good about our objects now, whether or not we have hit 1000 downloads of our object.
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2013-04-25 19:59
    The number of times downloaded is now gone, maybe we can all feel good about our objects now, whether or not we have hit 1000 downloads of our object.

    Check the updates: they're working on adding it back.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2013-04-25 20:07
    fixmax wrote:
    "Removed all references to C from Imagecraft or Catalina, and it will now only support PropGCC code libraries..."

    Wow, that isn't good for Catalina folks..

    I think t's reasonable for Parallax to eliminate programs dependent upon dev tools that they do not control or are not open-sourced.

    -Phil
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2013-04-25 20:08
    I think t's reasonable for Parallax to eliminate programs dependent upon dev tools that they do not control or are not open-sourced.

    -Phil

    Catalina is open source and they are allowing PropBasic which I believe is closed source.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-04-25 22:20
    This is all good stuff.

    I think RossH and ImageCraft might be a bit miffed at having their compilers referred to as "attempts". They are both complete, quality compilers with a lot of effort behind them.

    @Phil

    I can understand wanting to remove things that are dependent on "foreign" tools. However this is C source code and C is C regardless of the compiler you might use. I know these things won't compile out of the box under GCC due to library differences but there may be some useful nuggets in the source anyway.
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2013-04-26 01:03
    David Betz wrote: »
    Catalina is open source and they are allowing PropBasic which I believe is closed source.

    Is Catalina open source? I can't seem to find any source code links on the Sourceforge page. Do you have a link?
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-04-26 01:54
    sourceforge tells us it's licensed under the GPL. So if you have a binary yo can ask Ross for the source code.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2013-04-26 03:25
    Heater. wrote: »
    sourceforge tells us it's licensed under the GPL. So if you have a binary yo can ask Ross for the source code.
    I have source code for a number of versions. It's possible Ross hasn't posted the most current source but I imagine he will if asked when he gets back.
  • RossHRossH Posts: 5,462
    edited 2013-05-14 05:41
    David Betz wrote: »
    I have source code for a number of versions. It's possible Ross hasn't posted the most current source but I imagine he will if asked when he gets back.

    Catalina is fully open source apart for the Optimizer - I used to charge for that, but I don't any more, so I will post source for that as well at some point..

    The source code for Catalina is (and always has been) available on Sourceforge. If you have downloaded Catalina you have also downloaded the entire source code tree, although it is optional whether you install it or not.

    As far as I know, there has never been any Catalina code in the OBEX, so removing C programs from the OBEX may affect ImageCraft and GCC, but does not affect Catalina at all. One of the main reasons for this is that Catalina code tends to be straight ANSI C source code, and this is most likely to be GPL licensed or public domain, not MIT licensed. All OBEX code is required to be MIT licensed, so in general Catalina code can't be put in the OBEX anyway.

    Ross.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-05-14 06:24
    RossH,
    Catalina code tends to be straight ANSI C source code, and this is most likely to be GPL licensed or public domain, not MIT licensed. All OBEX code is required to be MIT licensed, so in general Catalina code can't be put in the OBEX anyway.

    I think you might want to rephrase that. I casual reader might get the wrong impression and conclude that they cannot use any license they like for their code built with Catalina. Where as the opposite is true (I hope).
  • RossHRossH Posts: 5,462
    edited 2013-05-14 06:35
    Heater. wrote: »
    RossH,


    I think you might want to rephrase that. I casual reader might get the wrong impression and conclude that they cannot use any license they like for their code built with Catalina. Where as the opposite is true (I hope).

    Quite right - I meant code downloaded from the "big"OBEX - i.e. the internet - and then compiled with Catalina, not C programs written by users (which can of course be fully MIT licensed if desired).

    Ross.
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