I've been scolded by my PCB fab source for panelizing my own boards. As a consequence, I recommend that you have your fab do that. Just provide them with a panelization drawing and let them do the step and repeat. In any event, Gerber files are the absolutely wrong place to do ediitng of any kind. Editing should always be done in the PCB CAD program. Editing a Gerber file is like editing a PDF file created from a Word document, instead of editing the Wrod document itself.
I've been scolded by my PCB fab source for panelizing my own boards. As a consequence, I recommend that you have your fab do that. Just provide them with a panelization drawing and let them do the step and repeat. In any event, Gerber files are the absolutely wrong place to do ediitng of any kind. Editing should always be done in the PCB CAD program. Editing a Gerber file is like editing a PDF file created from a Word document, instead of editing the Wrod document itself.
-Phil
My fab house will not panelise for me. They want me to do it. I would rather panelise in cad software but cant find my eagle cd so I drew this up in dip trace which is to limited to panelise without paying a lot of money(which I don't currently have). I may just eat the $70 and have 2 separate runs done if I can not get panels to work out.
I deal with fab houses a few times a week at work and also setup gerber packages/panelizations frequently. In the past 3 years, I have setup gerber packages for over 160 PCBs. With that said, here is my 2 cents:
There are two common and inexpensive programs for doing panelization of gerber files for fab manufacturing:
Both can edit gerber for step and repeat as well as adding rails for panelization. At work, I use GCPowerPlace (a few levels above GCPrevuePlus) for doing panelizations, but it is rare as I have my fab suppliers do this portion of gerber manipulation.
Some things to keep in mind when panelizing fabs:
What raw panel size is your fab house using? In standard runs, you are paying for the full panel, so the better you utilize the raw panel, the lower your cost per image will be.
What drill size does your fab house prefer for routes? When panelizing, you have several options for how the images are attached to each other. Routed solid tabs, routed drilled tabs, and v-scores. Your fab house should have "defaults" for each of these that they prefer, so utilize them as possible.
Add standard tooling holes and fiducials to the rails.
The fab houses that I use provide panelization services (as part of my orders) based upon basic requirements that I give them (I actually require it of a fab house before handing them business). If I don't have specific requirements, I give them options by means of calling out panelization such as this:
Panelize for best material usage, 4-12 up, with standard 0.25" rails including tooling holes and fiducials. Panelization drawing must be approved by (my company name) Engineering before production of first order. Panelized gerber to be provided before shipment.
If I do have specific requirements, I will make up a panel drawing. Most fab houses use this type of drawing to layout the gerber appropriately to make a PCB easy to manufacture. This is very common as any fab house has the ability to gerber data. (they just may not offer it as a service though).
Phil: Unless they are a quickturn shop, I hope you dumped them as a supplier. If one of my fab houses scolded me for providing a panel drawing, they would no longer be one of my fab houses. I could understand them giving me reasons why it would increase my price or make the PCB difficult to manufacture, but I consider them an extension of my employer and expect them to act as such.
If the boards are to be separated by scoring, I panelize it myself by simple copy and paste in the PCB software. Allow an extra 10 mils between boards and 250 mil border, and do the ground pour after the step and repeat, and exclude the score lines from the ground pour. I make an extra gerber with the score lines and board outline. At 4pcb, I check the "scoring" box but not the "panelize" box. The scoring option is relatively cheap, compared to tabs.
When I need tabs, I let 4pcb do it, with instructions such as 4 by 3 panel, and include a sketch with the fabrication details. Ask for "mouse bites" on the tabs, which make the tabs easier to break off cleanly.
Phil: Unless they are a quickturn shop, I hope you dumped them as a supplier. If one of my fab houses scolded me for providing a panel drawing, they would no longer be one of my fab houses. I could understand them giving me reasons why it would increase my price or make the PCB difficult to manufacture, but I consider them an extension of my employer and expect them to act as such.
They've been a trusted supplier for years. After botching my own panelization once (one of the boards being mispositioned), I took the scolding with equanimity, since I knew they were just trying to help.
In any event, I like to treat my suppliers as partners, not servants.
Phil, Ok, that makes sense and sounds a little less rude than the way I took your first post. And, yes, I agree about seeing suppliers as business partners, which is what I mean as seeing them as an extension of our business. I have conversations with the rep for our main fab house as if we have known each other from high school; to me, that's "business". When my employer's customers treat us like a servant for EMS services, I always wonder how long they will survive as a business. Although we have many contracts governing our interaction with both suppliers and customers, nothing beats a handshake or a frank conversation with your point of contact. Call me old-school I guess
My fab house will not panelise for me. They want me to do it. I would rather panelise in cad software but cant find my eagle cd so I drew this up in dip trace which is to limited to panelise without paying a lot of money(which I don't currently have). I may just eat the $70 and have 2 separate runs done if I can not get panels to work out.
I'm confident with Diptrace you can make panels without breaking the limits.
If I remember correctly with same boards there are not issues, while with different boards you have to select the option to keep original refdefs when copying and pasting. Try to search the web for instructions.
Massimo
My fab house will not panelise for me. They want me to do it. I would rather panelise in cad software but cant find my eagle cd so I drew this up in dip trace which is to limited to panelise without paying a lot of money(which I don't currently have). I may just eat the $70 and have 2 separate runs done if I can not get panels to work out.
I'm confident with Diptrace you can make panels without breaking the limits.
If I remember correctly with same boards there are not issues, while with different boards you have to select the option to keep original refdefs when copying and pasting. Try to search the web for instructions.
Massimo
mctrivia
Posts: 3,772
Comments
This one is inexpensive, and has a nice layered PDF feature.
I think it has a free trial.
http://www.softwarecompanions.com/gbupdate.html
-Phil
My fab house will not panelise for me. They want me to do it. I would rather panelise in cad software but cant find my eagle cd so I drew this up in dip trace which is to limited to panelise without paying a lot of money(which I don't currently have). I may just eat the $70 and have 2 separate runs done if I can not get panels to work out.
There are two common and inexpensive programs for doing panelization of gerber files for fab manufacturing:
- Graphicode GCPrevuePlus for $495.
- Pentalogix Viewmate Deluxe for $95.
Both can edit gerber for step and repeat as well as adding rails for panelization. At work, I use GCPowerPlace (a few levels above GCPrevuePlus) for doing panelizations, but it is rare as I have my fab suppliers do this portion of gerber manipulation.Some things to keep in mind when panelizing fabs:
- What raw panel size is your fab house using? In standard runs, you are paying for the full panel, so the better you utilize the raw panel, the lower your cost per image will be.
- What drill size does your fab house prefer for routes? When panelizing, you have several options for how the images are attached to each other. Routed solid tabs, routed drilled tabs, and v-scores. Your fab house should have "defaults" for each of these that they prefer, so utilize them as possible.
- Add standard tooling holes and fiducials to the rails.
The fab houses that I use provide panelization services (as part of my orders) based upon basic requirements that I give them (I actually require it of a fab house before handing them business). If I don't have specific requirements, I give them options by means of calling out panelization such as this:- Panelize for best material usage, 4-12 up, with standard 0.25" rails including tooling holes and fiducials. Panelization drawing must be approved by (my company name) Engineering before production of first order. Panelized gerber to be provided before shipment.
If I do have specific requirements, I will make up a panel drawing. Most fab houses use this type of drawing to layout the gerber appropriately to make a PCB easy to manufacture. This is very common as any fab house has the ability to gerber data. (they just may not offer it as a service though).Phil: Unless they are a quickturn shop, I hope you dumped them as a supplier. If one of my fab houses scolded me for providing a panel drawing, they would no longer be one of my fab houses. I could understand them giving me reasons why it would increase my price or make the PCB difficult to manufacture, but I consider them an extension of my employer and expect them to act as such.
http://www.cadsoftusa.com/download-eagle/
When I need tabs, I let 4pcb do it, with instructions such as 4 by 3 panel, and include a sketch with the fabrication details. Ask for "mouse bites" on the tabs, which make the tabs easier to break off cleanly.
They've been a trusted supplier for years. After botching my own panelization once (one of the boards being mispositioned), I took the scolding with equanimity, since I knew they were just trying to help.
In any event, I like to treat my suppliers as partners, not servants.
-Phil
I'm confident with Diptrace you can make panels without breaking the limits.
If I remember correctly with same boards there are not issues, while with different boards you have to select the option to keep original refdefs when copying and pasting. Try to search the web for instructions.
Massimo
I'm confident with Diptrace you can make panels without breaking the limits.
If I remember correctly with same boards there are not issues, while with different boards you have to select the option to keep original refdefs when copying and pasting. Try to search the web for instructions.
Massimo