What to do
Peter KG6LSE
Posts: 1,383
OK my Pent M CF29 toughbook died this week ..... ( was PATA based just FYI here )
I am NOT a power user I need a simple computer to load code for class.....
I Run Debian linux .
I have a 1500 Budge for a laptop and or a tablet
the CF 30 is CORE 2 based and uses SATA HDDS
the CF 31 ( current model ) is i series based , and start at 3 K .... Not a option
30s go for 500 -1400 on ebay
I have also looked at the android based A1 and B2 toughpads 10 inch and 1500 / 8 inch 1200 USD
I have to admit ..I have used my laptop Way less from this year as my S3 phone was so easy to use .
The whole point of a tablet for me is ( instant on . and 24/7 4G and data at my disposal )
None of the 300 USD ones I have seen have 4G on them so what is the point .
I can also get a CF 19 that has a fip screen ,,,,,,, Really thick tablet .
\
but I know the touch screens are not Really happy with llinux so its a waist for a flip if it cant be used .......
If I did get a 30 I would Buy the Internal GOBI modem for it so I have 24/4 data )
OK!
soooo
vote please ...... do get a 30 and pimp it ... .... get a 600 ish 30 a and save the rest or do I get a tough pad and have the worlds Best tablet .
I am NOT a power user I need a simple computer to load code for class.....
I Run Debian linux .
I have a 1500 Budge for a laptop and or a tablet
the CF 30 is CORE 2 based and uses SATA HDDS
the CF 31 ( current model ) is i series based , and start at 3 K .... Not a option
30s go for 500 -1400 on ebay
I have also looked at the android based A1 and B2 toughpads 10 inch and 1500 / 8 inch 1200 USD
I have to admit ..I have used my laptop Way less from this year as my S3 phone was so easy to use .
The whole point of a tablet for me is ( instant on . and 24/7 4G and data at my disposal )
None of the 300 USD ones I have seen have 4G on them so what is the point .
I can also get a CF 19 that has a fip screen ,,,,,,, Really thick tablet .
\
but I know the touch screens are not Really happy with llinux so its a waist for a flip if it cant be used .......
If I did get a 30 I would Buy the Internal GOBI modem for it so I have 24/4 data )
OK!
soooo
vote please ...... do get a 30 and pimp it ... .... get a 600 ish 30 a and save the rest or do I get a tough pad and have the worlds Best tablet .
Comments
Something to consider: A friend got an i7 laptop with 8gigs of ram for $800. Its faster than my desktop and has better battery life than my core duo. He can easily run linux as virtual sessions under windows (which is cam with), or run windows as virtual sessions under linux (if he became modivated to reinstall an OS). point being that there may be options beyond the two you are considering that may be more cost effective.
Are somehow restricted to two specific models?
My Really old CF27 pent 3 . was hit by a car .( the car missed me by a inch ) the lappy over my sholder on the back not so much IT made it to my English finals that day and get my a A in the class........... If had a consumer laptop It would have failed the class ... Remember I can never write /disabled ..... so it has to allwas work ...
http://buytough.com/tb_30.asp
http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/07/panasonic-toughpad-a1-and-b1-the-tablets-you-can-drop-and-pick/
My expictataions on CPU power is very very low .......... My 29 did HD video ! under Debian with out a hitch ..
In fact If the 29 was SATA based I would problty just get it again as it works Great ! . sadly its PATA
I presently have a 1025c, The listing below wants $350, but look around.
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-1025C-MU17-BK-10-1-Inch-Netbook-Black/dp/B0071N3AYC
Even an old Thinkpad would be better, then.
Or the old Husky hunter...
Seems the CF-29 is on sale over at http://www.ruggednotebooks.com/
Lots of other goodies for sale, also.
http://ruggednotebooks.com/semi-rugged/semi-rugged-notebooks/rugged-notebooks-raven
'Rugged Raven S15C' i3 CPU, starting at $1200
Good point, I actually wasn't aware of these rugged computers. ?they seem very useful for travel into odd places. And the CF-29 is the same price as a new EEEpc.
http://anthony-lion.livejournal.com/pics/catalog/511/422
2mm Steel sheeting, milled front beezel.
That thing was hit by a SUV once, and all that happened is that it knocked loose a couple of keycaps...
It's long since retired and was replaced by a Panasonic CF30 ToughBook.
You mean this Husky Hunter? http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/vintage/auction-575270122.htm
A great machine in it's day. I worked on a project for the military using Husky Hunter 16's. The Husky is advertised as rugged but ours took it to another level using a custom cast aluminium case with room for a modem and those bullet proof looking connectors.
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=285
(I have one of these. Unfortunately, the Switch-mode PSU inside has died and I haven't had the time to trace it out completely and repair it. The people at Husky wanted shedloads of money to fix it for me, but too much for my taste. Nice to see that they still support them)
If you happen upon one of the 'mil spec' ones, I might be interested...
We had a lot of fun with interrupts on that machine. Because of various architectural problems with the V20 (8086) clone they used an the circuit they put it in (to do with power saving sleep mode etc) all device interrupts went through the Non-Maskable Interrupt, NMI. That interrupt handler was a monster that had to take care of interrupt priorities, nested interrupts etc etc for everything. All written in assembler. I went up to the Husk offices to help them fix race conditions we found when trying to use it for serial communications.
Having solid state storage instead of a rotating hard disk would contribute a great deal to durability. And having both a power supply and motherboard that are proven capable of working in nearly 100% humidity (tough fans too) at 35 degrees centigrade. Options to clean out dust and dirt and maybe fungus and slime mold would be appealing. Also a battery that would work after left overnight in a sub-zero tent.
The original EEEpc 701 was solid-state storage, had a very protected tiny screen, and the cooling used the aluminum backplane of the keyboard to eliminate the need to rely on forced air.
On the other hand, I have a friend that bought a Sager laptop for its leading edge features and it has never been able to handle the Taiwan climate or Asian air pollution. Also he loaded it with a video card that was more than the power supply could handle.
It is one thing to sell a rugged computer, it is another thing to really deliver one. My own solution was to buy an EEEpc and consider it disposable.
My Palm Zire72 PDA is still working well... very rugged without the rugged label.
My Asus EEEpc 701-4g was dropped on concrete from about 1 and 1/2 meters twice.. no damage but a cosmetic ding on one corner.
Mine with a spinning HDD went down a flight of stairs .( I did not turn off auto HDD spin down in linux as it was the 1st week I had the CF29 .. I did after that 1/9th of a life was used up ..
I am gonna put a 128 SSD in mine as a Build to order ... my 29 has a 80 GB and that was more then anough ....... I can allwas shove a 64GB SD card in the internal slot If I need more later .
I have done the disposable thing ., one BIG word Down time ..................
remember my computer is a handicapped accessibility device .... I am unable to write ...
The shell has reinforced hinges, water/dust-proof covers over ports, water/dust-proof keyboard.
Cooling is handled either by using the entire body as a heatsink, or by special fans that can handle water/dust ingress.
Everything inside is mounted with shockproof mounts. A lot of what would be mounted directly is connected with cables instead.
(Especially on older HDD-based machines. Having a HDD attach directly to an IDE/SATA connector on the motherboard could result in a damaged Motherboard if the machine had a spill down the stairs)
Getting proper protection and still keep the weight down(and not end up with an ungainly lump of metal) is very difficult, especially if you also want good performance. Which is why some of these costs 5x what a similarly specced computer would cost.
Never tried the Panasonic tablets, but trust that it'll work.
Some people in my organisation use them while out measuring terrain with Geodimeters, and I haven't heard that they've had any problems with them. These guys WILL abuse anything except the Geodimeters...
Expensive equipment, yes, but they work outside i almost any weather when necessary, and time is money.
IF they have to cut a workday short because their PC craps out, or they decide that there's no use heading out because the PC is bound to die... It quickly amounts to a lot of money.
JEEEZ! forget it ! ..... I can understand 2X the price of a normal 4G 8 inch tab .... but 3x Nooooo way
soooo I ended up gettting this ... one Heck of a deal and its on XP the best Win OS one I think can use for now ....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PANASONIC-TOUGHBOOK-CF-30-MK2-C2D-1-6-TOUCHSCREEN-2GB-80GB-GPS-XP-FREE-SHIP-/171019093917?pt=Laptops_Nov05&hash=item27d188479d
the ram is not high nor is the HDD... but I can add more ram and the HDD is not a worries as it just needs to copy what I had on my Older one ... that was also 80GB
then I picked up a New Func Gen at Frys and a samsung 7 inch tablet to play with ............ and I still have $$$ left over
Why do you have to post that kind of deals?
Now I want one, too...
(Unfortunately, the seller doesn't ship across the pond, and also the shipping would be murder... )
The One thing it lacks is the GOBI WWLAN modem ... but I have 2 thoughts on this ..... Iam OK as its gonna boot to both XP and Linux .. the latter does not allwas play nice with Wireless stuff Be it WiFI or 3-4G . I have a USB 3G one right now that is OK on Debain so I might as well use it ...
Also !!!!!! untill now ( well last Oct ) I did not have a hotspot capable smart phone ...... My SGS3 can do 4G LTE to WiFI ( and can do Direct teather as USB too!) and the new lappy has internal WIFI.
so I can piggy back off my phone
.( the 29 I had no internal WiFI .... I did not see a point to put a PC card in it to just go to a MIFI 1 foot away ..... It was one more darn batt to worry about .......... so I used a PC card 3G and then I got a USB one later on.
also it ( the 30 ) has 3 USB so I dont mind eating up a port for CDMA 3G modem ( more on this later ) ...... and it has bluetooth so I can save a port there also with my existing bluetooth KB and mouse .......
It has real Serial ! . try getting that on a consumer laptop! .........
I have a REALLY good deal on my 3G Stck ......I pay 59 a month for 20 GB !!!!!!!!!! Eat THAT verizon ! and its ON the Verizon towers so its just as good ...
I dont allwas use 20 GB I use about 8 a month . but with 20 If the laptop was all I had for a main computer in a pinch I can use the web as normal and not worry about overage charges .....
Besides shared throttled college WiFI is just as slow as 3G ! so I might as well just provide my own webs .
Gadgetman . If the 29 was not PATA based I might have got one again but that Drive tech is Dead . so Its not gonna be a smart investment for a main laptop ................
I was Seriously conciering the CF 19 as ir can flip too.... but I dont think I need that feture and the 30 also has a WACOM / resistive . touchscreen
they are Really handy to use for all sorts of stuff.... I do wish the 30 had a webcam ... only the current model the 31 has that as a option .
as I de com pose the 29 Ill post a few pics here so yall can see how Well they are made .....
Peter
But the video of the guy tossing the Rugged laptop from a height is a farce. It seems he intended it to land flat, no spin or random outcome. Both his tosses are rather wimpy.
In the real world, tossing the device down a concrete stairwell with some force and where it takes several spins and bounces as it reaches a bottom floor is much more realistic. My EEEpc got dropped twice and in both cases, it fell out of an improperly closed backpack. Once was as I was running up concrete stairs.
Another realistic scenario would be to have it fall out of a backpack on a motorcycle or bicycle going 50MPH, and getting abused by oncoming traffic.
In any event, I learned to properly close the backpack.
perhaps this is a better vid . and its on the 30 . the one that is on its way .
you know, the normal 'drop tests', overnight in freezer', 'spilled coffee' stuff...
The ToughBook's screen cracked when a troop of fully kitted out soldiers marched over it, but the DELL survived.
The CV-90 test, though... Seems DELLs don't like being run over by a 25Ton CV-90 tank...
(The HDD was recovered and still working, though)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Vehicle_90
Interestingly, a Corsair Flash Survivor USB 3.0 memory stick survived everything.
(They needed to apply brute force to remove the cap after the CV-90 drove over it, but in a military camp, finding brute force wasn't all that difficult)
Can't find any video of the test right now...
One may never get near a 25-ton tank, but easily run over by an 80-ton lorry.
So far, I think I can buy 4 or 5 EEEpcs for the price of one CF30. With the ability to salvage parts, I suspect the disposable approach would end up being more cost effective. And let's face it, businesses have to consider costs.
You'd expect a tank with wide tracks to not cause too much damage because of low pressure, but it's all those bumps and ridges for traction...
A lorry will most probably do less damage.
you can see pictures of the DELL machine on this page:
http://www.hardware.no/artikler/stot-og-sprutsikre-laptoper/103436/2
What is really disappointing is that the Panasonic ToughBook didn't survive the soldiers marching(and in cases, jumping onto) over it.
In fact, the LCD was broken after the first soldier.
(Cheap plastic construction behind the LCD broke)
Hopefully, they've changed that design so that current production models are a bit more robust.
My first PDA was a very expensive Sony CLIE, just because it had both English and Chinese i/o. I had it only for a month or so when it was accidentally nudged off a restaurant table top and that less than 1 meter drop destroyed the screen. So even a 1 meter drop test can be some indication of durability.
Sony refused to repair the CLIE as it was supposed to only be sold in the USA and I had purchased it in Taiwan from a retailer that went out of business about 10 days later. The lack of allowing a repair has permanently put me off of Sony products.
Last year, the local Toshiba repair center in Kaohsiung attempted to refuse to repair my Toshiba NB250. They wanted me to buy another one rather than replace the screen I had damaged by cleaning with alcohol.
I finally got the screen replaced, but made it very clear to them that I would likely avoid Toshiba in the future. These notebooks may cost only $300USD or so, but if you do buy the Windows upgrade and a copy of Windows Office, you can have nearly $1000USD tied up in the machine. MS generally will NOT transfer the licenses. Of course, this didn't apply to me as I use Linux and Open Office, but the issue was simply that I usually take good care of my equipment and get long use out of it.
In my opinion, screens should be a simple modular replacement part, along with keyboards. You don't have to make everything tough, just the core device that is for the care and feeding of data.