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Robot hot among surgeons but FDA taking a new look — Parallax Forums

Robot hot among surgeons but FDA taking a new look

Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
edited 2013-04-11 02:41 in General Discussion
http://news.yahoo.com/robot-hot-among-surgeons-fda-140543102.html

Excerpt
The biggest thing in operating rooms these days is a million-dollar, multi-armed robot named da Vinci, used in nearly 400,000 surgeries nationwide last year — triple the number just four years earlier.
But now the high-tech helper is under scrutiny over reports of problems, including several deaths that may be linked with it and the high cost of using the robotic system.

There also have been a few disturbing, freak incidents: a robotic hand that wouldn't let go of tissue grasped during surgery and a robotic arm hitting a patient in the face as she lay on the operating table.

Is it time to curb the robot enthusiasm?

Comments

  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-04-09 08:57
    Just saw that on TV last month: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/146779-Badrobotsurgery.com

    Sure, everybody dogpile on robots during National Robotics Week! :)
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2013-04-09 13:15
    I think the biggest issue is the fact that robots are programmed by humans. I am sure doctors lead the way for helping to program the robots to do the work, but programmers are not doctors and can not foresee certain complications that may arise. I therefor would never let one operate on me. The technology is still to new to go that far IMHO.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-04-09 23:41
    All sorts of things happen in an operating room. My dad was a surgeon and he would always try to book the first surgery of the day as surgery often goes into overtime and later ones are canceled. Also, he never went into surgery on an empty stomach as you never knew how long it was going to be. Frustrations of waiting your turn and hunger may play big roles in mishaps, maybe more than robotic glitches.

    The main thing about da Vinci robotics surgery is it is less invasive than traditional human surgery. if whatever the procedure is, is done with more accuracy there is likely less trauma and a quicker recovery.

    But I am sure there is a lot of appeal for an urban myth where the surgical robot runs amok.

    BTW, doctors are not dumb people. So I suspect there are quite a few doctor/programmers involved. And then there is the fact that we all die. Doctors cannot make people live forever and some are lost in attempting to do just that.
  • lardomlardom Posts: 1,659
    edited 2013-04-10 06:45
    I just watched a YouTube video where Da Vinci pealed a grape. I was impressed. I'm sure the same degree of dexterity could be maintained on a microscopic level. I'm also certain that the current success rate will improve. Industrial robots are precise and consistent. IMO robotic surgery will become more common.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2013-04-10 18:33
    There also have been a few disturbing, freak incidents...Is it time to curb the robot enthusiasm?

    yes, but its too late. Disturbing, freak accidents are here to stay. And cannot be deleted.
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2013-04-11 01:57
    The fact that the robot 'refused' to let go of tissue it was holding tells me one thing.
    Someone forgot to add the F!ng MANUAL OVERRIDE!
    (Or they forgot to teach people how to manually override it when 'issues' occur. )

    Hitting a patient in the face sounds like someone didn't set the correct limits on 'operating box' where the robot can move the arm.
    (Or they did... once... then forgot about it, and for one reason or another, the table was raised higher during one operation so that the patient's head appeared 'inside the box')

    These aren't accidents. They're cases of negligence.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-04-11 02:41
    Is there really anything such as a 'freak accident" or is that a denial of responsiblity?

    There are some hazards due to lack of adequate training.. such as not being aware of how to do a manual override.

    My dad had only one notable machine failure in surgery in his medical career. In the 1960s or 70s, the latest gadget was an electric cauterizer that electrically burned flesh to stop bleeding. He had a machine that was improperly grounded and there was an insturmentation ground that was usally clipped to the patient's finger or ear.

    At the end of an otherwise uneventful surgery, it was discovered that the patient had a hole burned in her ear.

    Consider the fact that we have been doing things with X-ray, life-support, and so on for many decades now. And the simple fact is that 1 of 20 people that go under a general anesthetic have complications. Surgery is performed because the odds are better that you will recover than if do nothing. It is a calculated risk, unless you go in for cosmetic surgery or other such vanities.

    Still, I am happy to hear that the FDA feels that they should keep an eye on what is going on. They are supposed to.
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