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Apollo F-1 Engines Recovered from Ocean Floor — Parallax Forums

Apollo F-1 Engines Recovered from Ocean Floor

RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
edited 2013-03-23 23:05 in General Discussion
A very cool and impressive achievement. The F-1 engines were found, and retrieved from, almost 3 miles down and are in surprisingly good condition. They do not yet know exactly which mission these flew on.
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http://www.bezosexpeditions.com/updates.html

Comments

  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2013-03-21 05:52
    I'm surprised how clean they look I'd have expected them to be completely encrusted with coral by now
  • Mark_TMark_T Posts: 1,981
    edited 2013-03-21 11:22
    Coral doesn't live at 3 miles down!
  • davejamesdavejames Posts: 4,047
    edited 2013-03-21 13:25
    I've seen in other articles where NASA has stated the F1s are NASA property.

    What ever happened to salvage rights (aka "finders/keepers")?
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2013-03-21 15:33
    Mark_T wrote: »
    Coral doesn't live at 3 miles down!
    Good point, missed that bit
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,451
    edited 2013-03-21 18:19
    Military and space exploration hardware aren't by general maritime agreement finders keepers. There have also been some legal tussles about treasure ships just because. Maritime salvage is encouraged when it's a matter of recovering cargo or a vessel that would otherwise rot on the ocean floor, but it's not as cut and dried as it might seem.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-03-21 23:05
    Of course Howard Hughes' Gomar Explorer just happened to be mining for nickel nodules in the right place when it pulled up a Russian submarine. But that is in a completely different league of finder's keepers.

    So I'd have to say that finder's keepers can still trump all. It is just that China or Russia didn't recover the F-1 first.

    Some things are done by international aggreements, other things are done by international disagreements.
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2013-03-22 00:52
    My third sailboat was built by a naval architect who served aboard the Glomar Explorer. I sailed it to Catalina where he lived to meet up with him about 20 years ago. I'd like to say he had some interesting stories but he was not too keen on telling much.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-03-22 03:52
    I repeat... Some things are done by international agreements; other things are done by international disagreements.

    In the past 19 years of living in Taiwan, I have become far less naive about rules being made and rules being followed.

    Howard Hughes and all his misadventures are just a precursor to the what G.W. Bush more recently did with Dick Cheney. And I am sure there is a new intrigue born every minute.

    A lot of people have some very interesting stories to tell, but would rather not be bullied and have their credibility ruined for bringing such things to the public's attention. Being bought off and living on Catalina and designing sailboats is a kinder fate.

    The real question that begs answering is why the F-1 was retrieved. Maybe, China or North Korea was becoming more capable of retrieval.

    Is Jeff Bezos following in Howard Hughes' footsteps?
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,451
    edited 2013-03-23 08:00
    Loopy Byteloose wrote: »
    The real question that begs answering is why the F-1 was retrieved.

    I serously doubt if anybody learns the dubious secrets of the long obsolete F-1. The real reason for staging the recovery is simple: Magic. People like to feel a direct connection to powerful things.

    This is why people go to concerts when listening to a recording is so much cleaner and more convenient. It's why it's more impressive to see one of the space shuttles that flew than the Enterprise, one of the Apollo capsules that actually orbited the moon and re-entered than one of the mockups or one of the ones that were built to fly but never flew. There are at least a dozen pristine F-1s out there awaiting your gaze; five of them are hanging on an unused S-1C outside the Michoud assembly facility here in New Orleans. But none of those engines actually proved itself by flying. Bezos is giving us the chance to see one that did with our own eyes. Humans have a thing about that, which is why museums still exist in a world where you can see everything over the internet; it just isn't the same as seeing it in person.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-03-23 08:21
    I have to admit I was having a bit of fun recalling Howard Huges and all his mischief.

    I thing Jeff Bezos is just building a recovery team to go exploring for Spanish treasure. Since that cannot be done without permission of the Spanish government... which is expensive; just practice by picking up space junk and get some free publicity.

    This pristine F-1 don't seem to pristine to me if they are so corroded that one can't read the serial numbers. Of course, a piece of history is of more value than a bit of exotic metal scrap. The fact that New Orleans has five unused ones on display says a lot.

    I am not so sure that humans have a thing about this so much as Americans do. It is a big world, and more people grew up without TV that those that did.

    A good museum is fun. But it has to do more than just display a few things. We have a lot of places that just display oddities and relics in Asia, and they are ... just odd.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-03-23 09:32
    It's definitely cool to see & touch real pieces of aviation history. 25 years ago, a friend of mine was a "Wingnut", a flying wing fanatic. Together we found numerous pieces of scrap wreckage from a YB-49 flying wing which crashed near Edwards AFB. These parts had been laying on the surface (under bushes & such) since 1948. Biggest part was some avionics, an aluminum box with vacuum tubes. More recent info at http://www.xb-70.com/wmaa/yb49/

    I myself was a zeppelin nut. Buoyed by our flying wing find, in 1995 I went looking for wreckage of the Navy's USS Akron, a 785-foot flying aircraft carrier which crashed in the Atlantic in 1933. I chartered a boat to go scuba diving 30 miles off the Jersey coast. Novelist Clive Cussler claimed to have previously located the wreck in 105 feet of water. The day I was there we had 80 foot visibility and we towed an underwater camera I made to look around. Perfect conditions, but nothing was there. I contacted Cussler later. He apologized and admitted his claim was "questionable". He said it was the final day of their expedition, and in murky water they thought they found a galley stove. FAIL!

    Still a cool airship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTGBFY82Gik
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2013-03-23 09:46
    I think I know what would happen if someone tried to repossess the salvage it would miraculously find it's way overboard and back to 3 miles down! :smile:
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2013-03-23 20:03
    Loopy Byteloose wrote: »
    Being bought off and living on Catalina and designing sailboats is a kinder fate.

    That comment seems... inappropriate. Or maybe you know something about this fellow that I do not?
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-03-23 21:34
    The Gomar Explorer was a CIA cover operation. You don't work for them without being sworn to secrecy and without being threatened with going to jail for treason if you tell the world what you did for them.

    But the retirement benefits are great if you can keep your mouth shut.
  • rod1963rod1963 Posts: 752
    edited 2013-03-23 23:05
    There are some things that salvage ships stay away from - government and military items. Go try to salvage something off the Scorpion and you'll probably get a vacation to camp X-Ray better known as Gitmo. Or try going after that Russian Typhoon class sub, the Ruskies will probably just kill the salvage crew and put them with the fishes.
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