Cheaper PCBs
Dr_Acula
Posts: 5,484
Like many, I am on a quest for cheaper PCBs, especially prototypes. I've been using OurPCB for many years and they can make a 6x4" PCB for only a few dollars if you buy lots. But there is a minimum setup fee and there is shipping and so they are mainly useful for quantities of 20 or more.
I've used BatchPCB and they have a rate of $2.50 per square inch per board. There is a $10 setup fee and there is shipping. They say they will send you one board but they always seem to send two boards. Nice. But it can take a month to get the boards.
So I thought I would try another fab house, and rather than just regurgitate their website, I thought I might share the experience as I'm pretty pleased with the result.
I tried Seeed Studios (three e's) after reading a head to head comparison http://www.youritronics.com/seeed-studio-vs-itead-studio-vs-osh-park/
So, by way of comparison, a 2"x2" (5x5cm) (ok, 1.9"x1.9" technically) PCB. For BatchPCB that would be $10 and $10 setup fee which is $20. I'll exclude shipping as the costs are very similar and only a few dollars. For that, BatchPCB will send you one board, but actually it is two boards, and they arrive in a month.
Seeed Studios work differently. They have limited board sizes (increments of 5cm, so 5x5cm, 5x10cm, 10x10cm) and so it makes sense to combine designs and have less larger boards rather than more smaller ones. So I combined an SD card addon for the propeller with a SRAM and that fits on 5x5cm. Seed Studios charge $9.90 for that and no setup cost and it is for 10 boards as 10 is the minimum. Shipping is just a few dollars and about the same as BatchPCB. So excluding shipping, BatchPCB are $10 a board, and Seed are 99c a board.
Order went in on Dec 26 and received Jan 19. So maybe 3 weeks vs BatchPCB average 4 weeks. BatchPCB probably are quicker to the USA as they redistribute the boards from the US.
Seeed don't charge any shipping at all if the order is over $50 and if you are happy to use Hong Kong Post. They have lots of other shipping options that are much faster - roughly $30-$40.
They emailed me along the way, and I sent the order in on the 26th Dec and they emailed me to say they had made all the boards by the 29th, but then the shipping took the rest of the time, so if I wanted to pay more I could have had those boards in probably under a week. But then again, OurPCB can do that sort of quick delivery too... at a cost.
So, if anyone wants to give this fab house a try:
* Using Eagle or whatever, design a PCB and keep it in multiples of 1.9", 3.8" etc.
* Create files (there is an instructable on this, but in summary, File/Run/drillcfg.ulp, then File/Cam Processor/File/Open/Job/excellon.cam, and then File/Cam Processor/File/Open/Job/gerb274x.cam)
* Same as BatchPCB (and this is handy), copy seven files to a new directory - filename.cmp, filename.drd, filename.drl, filename.plc, filename.sol, filename.stc, filename.sts and then zip those into one file.
* Go to the Seed website (maybe create a username and log in) http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185
* Upload the file, and check it matches the pcb dimension or change if more than 5x5cm.
* Leave all the defaults as they are, checkout, pay with paypal, and wait for boards to arrive.
If you want multiple boards in one order, it is a bit hard to find where to add more as Seeed sell lots of things, but it is in Home/Services/Fusion PCB
It is rather similar to BatchPCB but I think they work out a lot cheaper. I just ordered 100 prototype boards (10 different designs) for $160. Hopefully I haven't got too many misteakes
The upside to this is if the boards work, I can give away some freebies. I've got this modular system for the Propeller where things can plug together in many different ways and so can complement the modular way the obex works.
I've used BatchPCB and they have a rate of $2.50 per square inch per board. There is a $10 setup fee and there is shipping. They say they will send you one board but they always seem to send two boards. Nice. But it can take a month to get the boards.
So I thought I would try another fab house, and rather than just regurgitate their website, I thought I might share the experience as I'm pretty pleased with the result.
I tried Seeed Studios (three e's) after reading a head to head comparison http://www.youritronics.com/seeed-studio-vs-itead-studio-vs-osh-park/
So, by way of comparison, a 2"x2" (5x5cm) (ok, 1.9"x1.9" technically) PCB. For BatchPCB that would be $10 and $10 setup fee which is $20. I'll exclude shipping as the costs are very similar and only a few dollars. For that, BatchPCB will send you one board, but actually it is two boards, and they arrive in a month.
Seeed Studios work differently. They have limited board sizes (increments of 5cm, so 5x5cm, 5x10cm, 10x10cm) and so it makes sense to combine designs and have less larger boards rather than more smaller ones. So I combined an SD card addon for the propeller with a SRAM and that fits on 5x5cm. Seed Studios charge $9.90 for that and no setup cost and it is for 10 boards as 10 is the minimum. Shipping is just a few dollars and about the same as BatchPCB. So excluding shipping, BatchPCB are $10 a board, and Seed are 99c a board.
Order went in on Dec 26 and received Jan 19. So maybe 3 weeks vs BatchPCB average 4 weeks. BatchPCB probably are quicker to the USA as they redistribute the boards from the US.
Seeed don't charge any shipping at all if the order is over $50 and if you are happy to use Hong Kong Post. They have lots of other shipping options that are much faster - roughly $30-$40.
They emailed me along the way, and I sent the order in on the 26th Dec and they emailed me to say they had made all the boards by the 29th, but then the shipping took the rest of the time, so if I wanted to pay more I could have had those boards in probably under a week. But then again, OurPCB can do that sort of quick delivery too... at a cost.
So, if anyone wants to give this fab house a try:
* Using Eagle or whatever, design a PCB and keep it in multiples of 1.9", 3.8" etc.
* Create files (there is an instructable on this, but in summary, File/Run/drillcfg.ulp, then File/Cam Processor/File/Open/Job/excellon.cam, and then File/Cam Processor/File/Open/Job/gerb274x.cam)
* Same as BatchPCB (and this is handy), copy seven files to a new directory - filename.cmp, filename.drd, filename.drl, filename.plc, filename.sol, filename.stc, filename.sts and then zip those into one file.
* Go to the Seed website (maybe create a username and log in) http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185
* Upload the file, and check it matches the pcb dimension or change if more than 5x5cm.
* Leave all the defaults as they are, checkout, pay with paypal, and wait for boards to arrive.
If you want multiple boards in one order, it is a bit hard to find where to add more as Seeed sell lots of things, but it is in Home/Services/Fusion PCB
It is rather similar to BatchPCB but I think they work out a lot cheaper. I just ordered 100 prototype boards (10 different designs) for $160. Hopefully I haven't got too many misteakes
The upside to this is if the boards work, I can give away some freebies. I've got this modular system for the Propeller where things can plug together in many different ways and so can complement the modular way the obex works.
Comments
http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping.html
They use the same PCB supplier as Seeed and I get the boards in about two weeks or less, here in the UK. People seem to have fewer problems with them than with Seeed.
Like the gold pads, that you have to file down the edges where they batches them together no so much.
I placed order on a Friday, they where included for a panel on Monday run.
Got them on a Friday so that will make it 10 business days.
I paid for express mail as the USA re-shipping is located on Oregon and I’m in Florida.
I placed two orders and only paid the $20 express for one and got them both shipped in that envelope.
Though they officially don't support slots (milled holes) that are platted, I think factory will still make them.
I will use them again.
It is a very competative business and middlemen are everywhere. But if you have the software that can create the right Gerber files, there are a lot of good outfits that you can deal directly with regardless of distance. It does help to go slow on your first order though as English is a second language.
ITead usually provides one or two extra boards, as well. Not surprising, as they use the same PCB company.
When I have sent a PCB to Seeed, here is an additional file that I include in the ZIPPED data called "Detailed information"
These files were generated from "Protel EDA Client 98" The option to "Print to file" allows for RS-274X file format. ============================================================= - Under "Printer Setup" select output "Protel Gerber RS274 on File" - Under "Options..." - Load Aperture Library from PCB - Plotter Type ; select Vector (Sorted File) instead of Raster (Unsorted) - Options - Use Software arcs - G54 on Apeture Change - Center Plots On Film - Embedded Apertures (RS274X) - Format - 2:5 - Under "Layers..." - Signal Top GTL - Signal Bottom GBL - Solder Top GTS - Solder Bottom GBS - Silk Top GTO - Silk Bottom GBO <- Layer used for Board Outline Creating the Drill file. ============================================================= - Under Reports - NC Drill TXT <- Drill fileWhen I pay $4+ a unit from Gold Phoenix. I've never had an issue with quality. I've also bought boards from Itead. These boards are cheaper to create by as much as a $1+ per unit compared to Gold Phoenix, but I've discovered quality issues, jagged and poor cuts. At the end of the day, it's my choice, pay a little more or pay in my time to go through the entire order and weed out the bad ones.
Jeff
http://gadgetgangster.com/tutorials/370
That's part three, for creating the board files. The complete list is toward the bottom of this page. Lots of good tutorials there.
http://gadgetgangster.com/tutorials.html
Seeed also lets you panelize up to 5 'copies' on the same board. That's 50 boards for $13.86 if you include shipping. ... 28 cents a board!!! The caveat is that you have to cut your own boards. I have a nice pair of scissors that I have found works very nice with a minimal amount of elbow grease, of course that's a matter of perspective, I'm sort of an OX like that. :-)
I asked and they said it was a (forunate) mistake on their side, and that they offer this service for a fee. Don't know the fee but worth investigating.
Massimo
http://www.meatandnetworking.com/uncategorized/cheap-prototype-pcb-comparison/
The various deals mean that it is worth thinking of things in different ways. For instance, say I want ten different peripheral boards. The setup costs are a factor so worth finding a fab house with low setup costs. Simple answer would be OSHPark or BatchPCB at (?) $5 a square inch or $2.50 a square inch. Alternatively, Seeed or Itead given you a minimum of 10 boards and a minimum of 4 square inches, but that is 40 square inches for $10 which is 25c a square inch. So it may be better to design a bigger peripheral board, put all the little peripherals on one board, and just populate the parts that are needed.
On the other hand, if just one of those peripherals has a mistake, the whole board now has a mistake on it, whereas if one board out of 10 has a mistake, you can throw those away and not sell them and get it redone.
Regarding iTead, they did the "MicroSD party" boards which involved a very fine router bit. They have supplied other boards to me with a v-groove to separate the two sub boards. They are good at non-standard thicknesses (and mask colours). Their expedited shipping (about $20) certainly helps.
regards
Lachlan
In the last month I've learned of two new players in the the Chinese Market:
http://smart-prototyping.com/ and http://www.elecrow.com/ and I'm thinking of giving them both a try.
http://smart-prototyping.com/ because they will do a **framed** steel stencil for and additional $20.
http://www.elecrow.com/ because they don't charge for color.
They also provide part sourcing for ANYTHING that is for sale in Shenzhen! So all those cool components and gear that you continuously see but can't find a source for, they'll now package and ship to you.
I exchanged EMails with alex @smart-prototyping regarding getting a quote for a solder reflow hotplate of the same kind as dangerous prototypes sourced and reviewed here:
http://dangerousprototypes.com/2013/03/14/workshop-video-59-946a-solder-reflow-hot-plate-workshop-video/
I'll report back here when I get my first order back from these new guys.
Red
I order over a hundred boards in March for a Maker Faire UK project (27-28th April), I got a confirmation they were shipped on 22nd March but its now May and still no boards. Postage was paid for and a tracking number obtained but the tracking number initially didn't work for something like 5-weeks.
They do respond very quickly to my emails but so far I've had very little in the way of action from them to resolve my missing boards, or even the offer of a refund :-(
here is Alex from Smart-Prototyping,com . My team and our supply chain is making a great job in sourcing, manufacturing or what ever you need. But because we can not deliver your package by our own hand we have to give it into the hand of a shipping company.
Most packages are going without any delay out of China and directly to our customers (using express even in only 3-8 days). However, a small amount of all orders is getting delayed either by the shipping provider or at the customs. Unfortunately some shipping providers are not very open for questions and discussions especially when customer are choosing options without tracking.
Can you please provide me your order date and order number or contact me at Alex @ smart-prototyping dot com? Of the few hundred customer we had already there have been only two which reported a problem. And both of them got a coupon for the next order from us and have been happy with the second try.
Also if you should have any other requests or questions just let me know. Me and my team are trying the best to make our customer happy and improve our speed and quality every single day.
Best,
Alex
I've PM with my order details.
Maybe even for an auto-pickandplace order.
Delay with shipping is pretty much out of there hands
They and there website seems very professional.
Smart-prototyping have quickly resolved the problem by refunding the order.