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IT Issue, Oddest I Have ever seen. — Parallax Forums

IT Issue, Oddest I Have ever seen.

NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
edited 2013-02-03 12:45 in General Discussion
Having been in IT for 15 years I thought I had seen it all until now:
Here's the scenerio. I have a client that is using MS Small Business Server 2003. No changes have been made. Using dual NIC's, one for Internal Network, one for external. This has been working for years. Last Friday I received a call that they were not receiving email. I remoted in to the Server, which works just fine. Here's the kicker. Suddenly they could not reach their domain name that is hosted by a web hosting company and resold through me. My own web site is on the exact same server. They were unable to bring my site up either. From my office I am able to bring up both sites and email works fine. After some calls to Comcast tech support we were told a hundred different solutions, none of which worked. I went on site and connected my laptop directly to the modem. Still no luck but all other sites worked fine. After 2 days of waiting for a call back from Comcast, I once again connected my laptop directly to the modem and suddenly their web site is now working but mine, which is hosted on the same server and uses the same DNS still will not come up. When performing an NSLookup for my site from inside their network all shows OK. So, any of the other IT people here ever seen anything like this? Like I said, NO changes had been made at all.

Comments

  • VonSzarvasVonSzarvas Posts: 3,506
    edited 2013-01-17 00:05
    couple quicks...

    1. Are you using a certain freebsd based firewall and using that as dns server (NS)... try restarting the dns server (tinydns?) service and also if you have 1:1 nat and override firewall rule to dns server sharing an IP, then re-apply the firewall rule. If that does not make sense, probably not the problem.

    2. Did a recent windows automatic update change something (especially a problem on older MS versions)... try to roll back before the last update, or better still just ensure the links in the chain from internet to the webserver are all good. Try to check every link. could be a firewall, could be a dns server, could be permissions on the firewall only allowing connection from certain ip ranges (something silly like that). A recent MS update might have started the basic firewall for you (!), which might not be great in your situ.. try switching it off for test.

    3. Any ip changes? Is iis or apache bound to the old public ip or wrong interface... check the web server conf. files.

    Gosh, could be lots of things... but as mentioned just work methodically testing each link in the route which ever way you can to find the point where things go wrong. It's a simple thing really when you step back and deal with it all in little blocks!

    couple tools I often use to help through up dns / routing issues:
    http://dnscheck.iis.se/
    http://www.webdnstools.com/dnstools/dns-lookup-results
    Good luck!
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2013-01-17 00:29
    No, and no, and no and no!!!! No changes, nada. No Auto updates set. Everything is the same as it always has been. The strange part is that their web site and my web site are hosted at the EXACT same location, same DNS and all. It took 2 days for Comcast to get theirs working but mine still does not from inside their building and using a direct connection to their modem. However, according to Comcast they did nothing but it suddenly started working after a call in to them, 2 days later!!!!

    Edit: I Figured it out!! The thing that threw me was the fact that when connecting my laptop directly to the modem all web sites worked with the exceptoion of mine. The Companies web site worked and is hosted on the same server and DNS as my own. Turns out it was the cable that was connected from the modem to the router/my laptop. What a relief!!!!!

    Still the oddest issue I have come across in my 15 years of doing IT work.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2013-01-19 01:03
    Well, On Thursday I thought I had it figured out. After changing the cable from the modem to my laptop it suddenly started working. After all that time I was relieved. At that point I connected it back to the LAN Router and the Server was able to get to the sites with no problem. I was, to say the least, ecstatic that the isse was resolved. That is, until about Noon on Friday. I received a call from the client saying they were not getting their emails again. I remoted in and sure enough, same issue all over again. At this point I knew it had to be Comcast and possibly a modem issue. I called their tech support and advised them of what the client told me which was if they were not operational when they come in on Monday that they would be switching ISP's.
    They FINALLY agreed to send a tech with a new modem. After he was on the phone with his direct tech support line for over an hour doing everything that I had already done, they finally decided to change the modem. The modem was set to factory defaults with no static IP address. As soon as it was up and running everything worked just fine. However, once they entered the static IP info again it all went back to the same issue.

    So, They set the modem up with a new static IP address and everything works now. Apparently, for some unknown reason the static IP that was being used was not forwarding DNS correctly. Very odd indeed but it is now working. I said from the begining it was an ISP issue but they (as always) pointed the finger elsewhere. I made sure I let them know that I was not real happy with the support they gave. I have been on and off the phone with them for a week and every time I was told something different. I told my client if I were them I would forward my bill to Comcast for payment!!!! However, I am just relieved that it is finally solved.
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2013-01-19 07:59
    Last week Comcast made some changes to their service, at least in my area. The old docsis 1.0 modem I had been using could no longer connect. They sent me a letter in November stating my modem would be "no longer supported" as of December 19 and said they'd be sending me a new modem. The new modem never arrived and the service continued to work fine. Tuesday of last week the old modem lost its connection. I had a newer modem available and 15 minutes after calling Comcast tech support I was back online. I'm not looking forward to getting the old modem (and its lease charges) removed from my account.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-01-19 08:10
    You might tell them that plausible deniability is neither a wise service practice or a good business plan. But the truth is that providing computer support occasionally requires someone to be the squeaky wheel as everyone tries to manage costs by downsizing support and services.

    A friend of mine here in Taiwan claims the US Department of Homeland Security is now playing around with blocking some IP#s to DNS servers. The IP#s are still operational, but the DNS servers apparently divert to a government site. That may not be the case here, but there is one more finger in the DNS servers ot confound the issues.

    Whatever is going on, the WWW is being fragmented by regionalization. There are a growing number of sites in the US I can't reach from Taiwan. I just wonder who is doing what. I never wanted a search engine to just provide me with advertisers and local news.

    For instance, if you are traveling abroad, you might find that you cannot reach your Senator or Congressman via email. And there are very real situations where that might be the only person that will help an American citizen abroad with immediate results.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2013-01-27 17:55
    Wow. So I thought we had it all fixed. That is until last Tuesday when I got a call that the clients email was not working again. I went on site and sure enough, the same problem as before. Could connect to Google and other sites, but not the companies site. I immediately thought it was a Comcast issue but after plugging my laptop directly to the modem, unlike the first time, I was able to connect with no problem. I immediately suspected the router even though it was brand new. I reset the router, downloaded and installed the new firmware and connected it to the modem and laptop to the router. Once again, I was able to access Google ad other sites but not the companies site. I brought the router to my office and it worked just fine. I could access everything including the companies site and email. I installed a second brand new router (Same Cisco E1200 brand) and the problem persists. Here's the kicker to the whole thing, with the laptop connected to the router and the router to the modem I am able to get to Google and other sites BUT when I run a ping from the router to the modem IP address it fails to receive any packets. There are no blocks set on the modem, no firewall turned on in it or anything. Comcast has reset the modem a couple times to no avail and it is a brand new modem. For some reason the Comcast modem and the Cisco router do not want to play together. I am going on Monday to get a different brand of Router to see if that helps.If not, I am not sure what the issue could be. I have tried different LAN ports on the modem and get the same results. This is not rocket science and I have set up enough routers and Internet connections through all types of modems that I could do it in my sleep!!!!! I have even changed all the cables to brand new tested cables and that did not work.
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2013-01-27 20:31
    Have you tried accessing the sites by IP address?

    Seems to me there is some goofy DNS issue in play here.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2013-01-27 20:39
    Yes, I have done pretty much everything my 15 years of experience has taught me. I am unable to ping the IP addresses and can not connect when using them in IE. I am going to install a different brand of router on Monday to see what happens. It is so much easier to figure out when nothing works as opposed to this situation!!!! What I do not get is how I can browse the Internet when connceted to the router but I can not ping the modem.

    Edit: I have also tried a few of the free DNS services with the same results.
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,568
    edited 2013-01-27 21:37
    Just throwing this out there to chew on ... several weeks ago COX's e-mail went down over more than 50% of the United States... I was down for three days without any explanation on the outage from COX. My guess is a nasty virus that could be making its way into Comcast and causing similar problems. just a thought.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2013-01-27 21:39
    Yea, It's not that. I have no problems with a direct connection to the modem.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-01-27 23:08
    My first impression was that this was a flaky DNS server or service. Some odd things are happening with internet service in Taiwan and one possibility is that ISPNs are redirecting bandwidth to support iPhones, iPads, and other touchscreen devices as these are a new revenue stream.

    But if it is an unstable router issue, you might try using a router with Linux, such as OPENWRT firmware installed to monitor the problem.

    I do realize that Cisco may be considered the 'gold-standard' of secure routers, but if that has been buggy or hacked or defective ... you need a router with an OS that is more visible.

    Using a customized LInux router might even become a useful service tool in the future. As you are free to load up diagnostic software and use it to monitor and debug all sorts of behavior. As it is, you seem to have a black box solution of just swapping routers and getting lucky.

    Of course, there is yet another issue, the ADSL modem may be rebooting due to terminated leases or power down by someone or something on site, and the ISPN loosing track of the IP# associated with the DNS server. Or browsers could be looking to old IP#. Have you lost your static IP# with your service provider?

    I truly do hope this is just a case of an ADSL modem that wore out and needed replacement. After all, they do sit around in an on state for years without anyone thinking about them and they do have wall warts that are capable of failure as well.
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2013-01-28 03:16
    Comcast?

    Isn't that the company that advices against using any form of router between the modem and your PC(s)?

    Cable modems...
    DOCSIS 1 & 2 is inherently flawed when it comes to security. It's also way too easy for anyone on the same network to spoof originator and to 'listen in' on anything that goes on.
    Here's the document from the Cable-modem hack demonstrated(Live) at HackCon #4 in 2009
    www.packet-o-matic.org/.../sniffing-cable-modems-hackcon4.odp

    The 'Cisco E1200' is now Linksys E1200 as Cisco is separating the 'home division' stuff from the corporate goods.
    I'd study the logs in it very carefully.
    When you replaced the router, did you also replace the wall-wart?

    Can you see any difference in your PCs DNS/domain settings when connected to the modem directly compared to when connected through the Router?
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-01-28 06:39
    Router wall warts do go bad quite often due to lightning strikes. Mine went and I replaced it with a nice little 3 amp caged switcher that has been very stable.... better protection for the power supply.

    Linksys E1200 can be loaded with Linux router firmware and used as a custom tool.
  • tonyp12tonyp12 Posts: 1,951
    edited 2013-01-28 06:49
    Loopback problems: reaching you internal server through your public IP can give problems.
    Always give the webserver a static internal IP outside the routers dhcp window.

    Can be DNS problems, try actual IP address.
    If port 80 and 8080 does not work, try another as your internet provider may be blocking them.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2013-01-28 09:58
    But if it is an unstable router issue, you might try using a router with Linux, such as OPENWRT firmware installed to monitor the problem.

    Nope. Works just fine from my office.
    Of course, there is yet another issue, the ADSL modem may be rebooting due to terminated leases or power down by someone or something on site, and the ISPN loosing track of the IP# associated with the DNS server. Or browsers could be looking to old IP#. Have you lost your static IP# with your service provider

    Nope. This is all happening when I am on site and no DHCP is used in either modem or router.
    When you replaced the router, did you also replace the wall-wart?

    Yes
    Can you see any difference in your PCs DNS/domain settings when connected to the modem directly compared to when connected through the Router?

    No, I am able to ping most all DNS servers on outside when laptop is connected. It is mainly the companies and a couple other sites that are not pingable.

    Loopback problems: reaching you internal server through your public IP can give problems.
    Always give the webserver a static internal IP outside the routers dhcp window.

    Internal Server not even connected. Direct Laptop connection to modem.
    Can be DNS problems, try actual IP address.

    IP Address does not work and is not pingable when router connected. Just fine when using just the laptop. When router connected a Trace Route fails at 14 Hops but completes with direct laptop connection.
    ]If port 80 and 8080 does not work, try another as your internet provider may be blocking them

    .This works fine. I am able to remote in from the outside with no issues. ALL web sites work when I only have Laptop connected. As soon as router is connected is when it fails.

    This is the most INSANE issue I have had in 15 years. I am going to try a different router later today. For now I have them directly connected from Server to Modem. I do not like doing this but client needs to be able to function. I read an article last night that said to change the routers MTU setting. What I do not get is why it works fine in my office but fails when connected to the Comcast modem.
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2013-01-28 14:25
    NWCCTV wrote: »
    ... What I do not get is how I can browse the Internet when connceted to the router but I can not ping the modem.
    ...

    It's probably because the LAN IP of the modem sees your laptop on a different subnet and treats it as a remote connection in which case ICMP echo would be blocked for security. To ping the modem from the LAN make sure you're pinging your WAN gateway, if you weren't.

    Sounds like you got your hands full... Tlime to make robots!
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2013-01-28 15:33
    Subnets are the same on Modem LAN and Router LAN. Can not ping Modem WAN or LAN IP from Router.

    .
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2013-01-28 18:46
    After all this and using 2 brand new Cisco E1200 routers I figured it out. The Cisco router and the Comcast modem do not play well together. I put in an ASUS Router and all works just fine. What a RELIEF!!!! I am going to contact Comcast to tell them to watch for this in the future. Even after updating the Cisco router Firmware it still did the same thing. Thanks to everyone that chimed in with suggestions. Hopefully it will not fail after 4 days again!!!!!

    Oh and BTW, the original router that suddenly stopped working was a Cisco Pix. Starnge situation all around.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-01-29 02:11
    Ahem.... well I have to admit that I have unresolved issues with my ADSL modem and its relationship to my router. I suspect it is part of the ISPN trying to reduce overhead by disconnnecting leases from inactive lines.

    From what I understand, your ISP is supposed to be providing 24/7 service to a static IP#, but what is supposed to be and how the service provider goes about fulfilling their contract can be two different things.

    The truth is that I have no idea what lurks inside an ADSL modem, but I have been regularly forced to reset mine to reach the internet. It is rather annoying and seems that the cycle is that once shut down it requires the router to reboot in order to log in for a new lease. It wasn't always that way, but the iPads and other touchscreens are demanding more bandwidth and it has to come from somewhere.

    You ISP may be tweaking things to avoid having to purchase more bandwidth.

    The ISP may not want routers included as they login and never logout.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2013-01-29 06:52
    This might be a long shot, but since its still unresolved:
    Is there any chance that an individual internal node is doing something funky? For example, a test station PC that needs email, or anything else that might seem to warrant a "custom" configuration? When I started messing with internet servers, I was very careful about the "Don't do this, you'll screw up the whole network" type of issues, and yet I still managed to mess things up royally. For DAYS. Could there be somebody that knows just enough to be dangerous? I'd look for an intern that doesn't know anything, or a senior engineer that knows "everything", except DNS (as that was me, both times).

    You issues reminds me of how my misconfigured workstation would appear to work at first, but after all the updates propagated, it would send the DNS requests to neverland.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2013-01-29 15:02
    Actually, I got iy resolved last night. Check previous posts. To answer your question though, it was nothing on the internal network. It was totally disconnected when the laptop was directly connected to the modem. It turned out to be the Brand of router. I had tried 2 brand new Cisco E1200's to no avail. I put in an ASUS and it all worked fine. Go figure.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-02-02 02:49
    Just an added bit of research. It seems that we may for the first time be suffering from the aging of the internet infrastructure. The ISP may just have equipment that needs replacement.

    http://www.techinstyle.tv/20112418220/post-types/guides/10-causes-of-adsl-connectivity-dropping-out/
  • Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,187
    edited 2013-02-02 19:36
    Just an added bit of research. It seems that we may for the first time be suffering from the aging of the internet infrastructure. The ISP may just have equipment that needs replacement.
    http://www.techinstyle.tv/20112418220/post-types/guides/10-causes-of-adsl-connectivity-dropping-out/

    Hello!
    George, I believe you are right. Very right.

    Outside of very new sites such as the one our correspondent has setup himself (And I am not being critical) most sites are approaching ten years of age. And sadly most routers only last about 3 to about 5 years before things internal and external (power thing on wall) for those of us before they crash and burn.

    For the bigger Cisco guys they have other issues as they age.

    Incidentally the Cable delivered Internet service uses a form of DHCP delivered IP addresses, they are not static. But neither are they being delivered via PPPoE which is what ADSL delivers. And here's where it gets peculiar, the service Comcast delivers for tech support is atrocious, that's the clean way of stating it.

    As for what clobbered Cox I don't know, but I do know from discussing issues with a friend once who lives in an area served by them, it's, ah, worse then that.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-02-02 22:26
    Hmmm. my land line and ADSL are not well. And it seems to be ageing infrastructure combined with cutbacks in personnel from the go-go days of internet expansion.

    Last night I wanted to get on to the internet and the ADSL was once again down. I picked up the telephone and there was no dial tone. I rebooted the ADSL modem about six times and fooled with telephone until I got a dial tone.

    I guess I need to complain to my ISP, but I do see a service truck arond the corner has been pulling fiber optic cable ( the unfinished spice was poking out of a manhole).

    When the economy gets bad, a lot of things just get funky as cost savings become the only task that managers can do to justify their paychecks.

    I am having to reboot my ADSL at least once a week. I don't have a 24/7 web server, so it isn't a big issue for me. I seem to reach the outside when I want to. But service is not what it used to be and this is with Taiwan's national telephone company.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2013-02-03 09:00
    II have used Qwest/Centurylink for my ADSL service pretty much since its inception. However, I use a smaller firm as my ISP. I can count on one hand how many times I have been down in over 10 years. The great thing about it is if my Internet does go down, when I call my ISP if he is having issues he has a recording letting everyone know how long it will be down for and the reason. A very small ISP but I LOVE their service.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-02-03 12:45
    Back in 1994, when I was leaving for Taiwan, my mother's best friend rather cryptically said, "They could use a few good electricians." I didn't understand at the time.

    But after I arrived, it became very obvious as the rapid expansion in electronics had telephone, cable TV, and electrical power wires strung everywhere in chaos. Cable TV companies were tying wire to light poles rather than provide their own poles. And new telephone lines for internet services have wires pulled under doors rather than drill through concrete walls.

    Much of the this mess still exists and my telephone line was installed at the height of this rush for voice and a 56K modem service. I have no idea how much they have cleaned up since then. I do know that much of the service has gone over to fiber optic. But typhoon add to the infrastructure problems every year.

    If I need a repair it is a rather involved process as I have to visit the telephone company in person or have a friend call in Chinese to get them to address the problem.

    I suppose you would be appalled with all this, but for an ex-pat living in Taiwan, everything gets done at a slower pace.

    I did have a web page and I used Yahoo as nothing was in Chinese or in Taiwan.
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