Help With Power supply , Propeller Resetting when other tings on net go On/Off
Igor_Rast
Posts: 357
Hi Fellow Members
I am have a power supply that keeps resetting the propeller when e.g. I turn a tl-tube light on , or a heaterfan , something that drauw current from the same socket , and the prop resets.
thouth this would get fixed by placing a 10 nf cap . but not .
trafo - 230 vac to 6volts , 5VA
caps 2x 1500 uf ( image not correct ) and 1 x 10nf ceramic cap
Hoping to get some help from the guys who knows better
the schematic looks like below
Thanks
Igor
I am have a power supply that keeps resetting the propeller when e.g. I turn a tl-tube light on , or a heaterfan , something that drauw current from the same socket , and the prop resets.
thouth this would get fixed by placing a 10 nf cap . but not .
trafo - 230 vac to 6volts , 5VA
caps 2x 1500 uf ( image not correct ) and 1 x 10nf ceramic cap
Hoping to get some help from the guys who knows better
the schematic looks like below
Thanks
Igor
1024 x 398 - 28K
Comments
a transformer. A multi-way adapter with built-in mains filter (often used for computers) would be one way to test this.
Is the 5V really meant to be unregulated? Perhaps an LDO 5V regulator should be used for that?
coult you point me to a mains conditioning filer as a refference ,
do you mean at the AC input terminal , or after the diodebrigde ?
the 5 volt terminal was just a measuring point so I could measure what was coming from the transformer ,
I have order these suppression filter as they called , but cant mounth them on the current pcb to test them out , not sure if this is what you mean or if this solves the problem of the spikes at all , but it would be in place behind the 3.3 volt regulator .
unfortunatly, the transformer does not have a built in mains filter , and I already orderd a few pcb with this footprint , so I hope I can find a solution without making the pcb useless
Igor
Have you looked at the reset pin?
Does it have a small cap and pullup resistor?
Duane J
G, a pull up resistor to the reset line sounds so logic , now that you say it I see the logic , when the propclip is not connected this could be the cause yes,. going to try that one out
but where would the small cap go ? between reset line and gnd ?
Thanks
Duane J
But ill keep the resistor and cap you adviced me.
I orderd the 2 ac filters I mentiond in the previous post, Ill be giving them a try tomorrow , and I wil let you know if the problem has been fixed.
Besides thos 2 things , any other sugestions ??
Many times instead of that AC filters You have posted in previous post.
I use special R-C filter ---> it looks like one Bigger capacitor but are one Resistor in series with Capacitor that You connect between AC lines.
I have read about those somewhere but cant realy find allot of information about it .
Any chance you can point me the right way to where I can get it , or can it also be assembled with lose components .
my abbility witch R C calculations is realy not the best , In fact , Analog Calculation is the reason they threw me out of scool because I could pass it :P .
a link would do wonders ,
I would also prefeur a smaller solution to those filters that I have orderd.
But I thouth I order them anyway So i at least can exclude a few things, finding the best solution.
Part number
> PMR209MB5470M047R30
Link https://www.distrelec.nl/elfa3~nl_nl/elfa/init.do?sq=+%09PMR209MB5470M047R30&cat=0
1. Power the board with a 2 cell battery pack directly to the 3.3V buses, (the voltage is close enough), on the Prop.
Does it still fail?
There should be no possibility of noise currents coming through the AC lines nor the regulator.
If it fails the noise is coming from some other pathway.
2. Power the board with a 4 cell battery pack through the bridge rectifier.
Does it still fail?
There should be no possibility of noise currents coming through the AC lines.
If it now fails the problem is, possibly, in the regulator.
3. While powering the board with a 4 cell battery pack through the bridge rectifier., connect the negitive or positive of the battery to one lead of the transformer.
Does it still fail?
If it now fails the problem is, possibly, common mode noise from the AC lines. A powerline filter may be required.
4. If it fails only when running from the AC transformer it really needs a powerline filter.
A. How good is the shielding of the enclosure around the Prop?
Is the enclosure metal? Plastic won't cut it.
B. How much separation is there between the AC side wiring and any other connections.
Good wiring dressing id essential in a noisy environment.
C. You may need filtering or shielding of the signal lines.
Give me a ring:
(651)426-4766
redrok@redrok.com
I have extensive experience with this stuff in my last life.
Duane J
What would be best, to connect it to the ac mains before the fuse, or after the fuse ( directly on the transformer ).
And You are deffinitly that this wil be better than the hole solution I went for, Just to understand you right ? And Cheaper :P
UPDATE . @ Dwane . WOWO . Missed your post before i posted
Nice Walkthou . Ill go right on it tomorrow early . Now its 2:32 am and I think its time for a nap ,
Ill do the steps 1 by one and post about it
Thanks for your time
I think I skype call wil be more in place. i will be calling from holland . Happy to hear your glad to help.
Ill get on it verry early , Just cant think stait anymore right now
I don't think that have impact --- But I think before fuse
Just curious, but I thought European 220V systems were hot on both sides of the line. If so, I would go with the filter modules you found in your post 4 as they can be had with both sides of the line fused w/ built in 20mm fuses. Just a safety thing.....
Frank
One thing leading to another , my part supplier decided to cancel my order last night.Today on the phone with them.(friendly ++) had to re-order .Now I will be receiving the components tomorrow . So I wont be able to test the ac filter out today . -- for that
I did manage to put in the order the R-C filter Sapieha mentioned. (@Sapieha: Thanks) so I have both to test the heck out of them tomorrow . making the cancellation a good thing :P.
I started excluding some things following Duane list.
#1 problem = the battery cell . I usually only have dead batteries lying around
I do have a battery from my drill. trowing out 14.4 Volts DC . so this is what I used.
But connecting it directly to the 3.3v bus wold definitively unleash the mystical blue smoke. Not something I want happening
so step 1 is not going to work .
what I did is connect the battery just in front of the 3.3 volt regulator . and unplugging the transformer from the AC net .
With this setting, Powering the propeller with battery (14v) true the 3.3V voltage regulator. and not connected to the ac net by any way .
The propeller works fine , and has no resetting occurring when i turn the light (tl-tube), fan . e.g . On/OFF.
Meaning Step 2. The regulator is fine . and there is no noise just flying into the circuit that not from the ac net
Step 3
I have noticed that when I try connecting my rather old tube scope to the board to see whats happening, the resetting issue begins occurring again , Meaning , when I connect the ground of the scope to the boad with the prop , the hole thing is again in contact with the ac net and getting noise . So I am unable to see whats happening .
maybe adding a filter to the scope too is not a bad idea to overcome this .
The same result with the step #3 duane mentioned to connect 1 end to the transformer , so its is probably Common mode noise coming from the AC lines
Conclusion : It Really Needs a Powerline Filter
the question is , whats the best , the socket version mentiond in post #4, or the R-C filter mentiond in post #11. or both ? .
@ Duane
About the enclosure , you say Plastic wont cut it. Giving me some spit swallowing over here. My enclosure is made of abs
so its not metal. is this such a big problem then , the PCB have copper pours. doesn't that help . metal enclosures would be too expensive. and when connected to the battery there wasn't really a sign it was picking up any notice from elsewhere
B + C
i thout a few picture was a better explination . And I am using shielded wires to connect my sensors to the board. the socket with 3power lines + 2 control lines comming from the powersuply. is not shielded.
So its not the cleanest with the wires , I did plan to make the power bus a bit shorter ,
The transformer is like that because I outgrew the power from the previous one(1.5VA), so I had to fit in a bigger on .
At the moment I have a newer version of this pcb beeing produced , (a few pieces) wich also includes a second regulator ( 5volts or 6 volts)with its caps. and a third SSR . but the layout is somewhat the same. When I recieve those by the end of the month the transformer sould just fit in like it is supose to . and is the reason why I hope this can be solved without too much moddifications .Hoping for the best.
@Frank
I will have to come back with the voltage awnsers & pictures of the scope when i get my multimeter tonight ( nephew borrowed it) aint got a clue about the load exactly .
I do know .
I have a prop .
those SSR drauw roughly about 50 Ma when on ,
I have a wiznet wio820 module that also needs some current
a sht-11 temp sensor , doesnt take allot
and a K-30 co2 sensor that max 300Ma .
and a lcd with shiftregisteres.
so anwser , Ill just connect the multimeter and read it
about the European 220V . Hot on both sides?? , doe you mean that both the F + N lines have power on them.
This is not the case . N line is neutral just like in US , and at the F line there is a difference of 230vac .If I understand your question correctly.
I also would prefer the filter module , as this is a solution ready to go , complies with regulations , and no modifications needed , But if the R-C filter does the same thing for 4 times less the price. then I will have to think about which is the best solution .
The Complete Schematic of the Power Suply + 2 Zero Crossing Solid state Relays
Maybe a Nice Opensource powersuply ?
Thanks Allot Guys & Girls For your super great help
Igor
#1 - a cap + pull up resistor keeping the reset line high .
#2 - Sapieha R.C Filter .
The socket ac filters and the lose R.C filter botth stoped the noise . So the choice was made to use the R.C filter
because its a easy modifiction , leaving the rest the same , and its cheaper .
Any Questions ?? < feel free to ask
Igor
Thanks for post results.
That filter always help me with that problems --> So I'm not surprised