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Enigma Decoding Machine — Parallax Forums

Enigma Decoding Machine

ercoerco Posts: 20,259
edited 2013-01-16 13:41 in General Discussion
Pretty amazing electromechanical encoding/decoding.

Comments

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-01-13 00:17
    Wonderful.

    You discovered the numberphile channel on YouTube, isn't it great?

    Be sure to also check out the maths rants by vihart and then sixtysymbols.

    That's what has taken up most of my Christmas holiday!
  • Ahle2Ahle2 Posts: 1,179
    edited 2013-01-13 00:46
    "Finally a number larger than the US national debt."
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2013-01-13 08:45
    Ahle2 wrote: »
    "Finally a number larger than the US national debt."

    But not yet surpassing the number of McDonald's hamburgers sold... :)
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2013-01-13 14:16
    Facinating but it stopped just as he was explaining the flaw, where's part 2? :smile:
  • Mark_TMark_T Posts: 1,981
    edited 2013-01-13 15:31
    skylight wrote: »
    Facinating but it stopped just as he was explaining the flaw, where's part 2? :smile:

    To quote the description on YouTube: "More on Enigma coming soon, including its flaw which was exploited by the allies."

    [ Incidentally James (who's giving the talk) comes to our local juggling club sometimes (Cambridge UK)... Its a small world ]
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-13 16:26
    skylight wrote: »
    Facinating but it stopped just as he was explaining the flaw, where's part 2? :smile:

    Simon Singh's book "The Code Book" is a history of code making and breaking. Besides teaching rudimentary cryptanalysis, it contains an excellent discussion of the Enigma machine and its failings. Most of them were operational. For example they only used one key per day and had boiler plate text in fixed positions within the messages. This greatly reduced the security since the allies knew what certain blocks of text were supposed to say. These footholds in the plain text are called cribs by cryptanalysts.

    However, Enigma's greatest vulnerability was that each symbol make two trips through one of the encoding stages. This didn't seem too bad to its creators, but it was a critical flaw with respect to double letters which in effect sent one symbol through the machine four times! This produced patterns in the cipher texts which could predict what the daily key was.

    Update: I went back and read up on the flaw again. The two trips through the machine meant that a letter could not encrypt to itself. So a repeated letter can't encrypt to itself twice. Now imagine that I keep typing the same letter over and over again. I can figure out what it is based upon the one letter not in the cipher texts. Given that the Nazis use the same key all day long, with boiler plate text, we can begin to exclude certain rotor settings based upon what isn't in the cipher texts.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2013-01-13 17:46
    Martin_H wrote: »
    This didn't seem too bad to its creators, but it was a critical flaw with respect to double letters which in effect sent one symbol through the machine four times! This produced patterns in the cipher texts which could predict what the daily key was.

    The one and only time they sent the word "bookkeeper", their triple double letter jig was up!
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2013-01-15 00:53
    Here's the video that deals with Enigma's fatal flaw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4V2bpZlqx8

    -Phil
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-15 06:14
    What's interesting is that rotor machines like the Enigma (without the flaw) were still state of the art until the 70's The problem with symmetric key cryptography is key distribution which is creates a point of attack. During the 70's computers reached a level of computational power that allowed the use of public key cryptography, so it became state of the art.

    I'll put in another plug for "The Code Book" which describes the true history of two key cryptography, one time pad cryptography, and Quantum cryptography which is the current state of the art.
  • nightwingnightwing Posts: 56
    edited 2013-01-15 08:35
    The real interesting part and normal left out is how America made the mess work... NCR created a machine that was way faster than the Brits unit.

    http://ww2images.blogspot.com/2012/12/ncr-n-530-bombe-enigma-decryption.html


    And this book is darn interesting!

    http://davedupre.com/2009/02/05/the-secret-in-building-26/


    it was a colbration that has been ignored.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2013-01-15 08:43
    But for the REAL story, you have to see U-571! :)

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0141926
  • Mark_TMark_T Posts: 1,981
    edited 2013-01-15 09:49
    erco wrote: »
    But for the REAL story, you have to see U-571! :)

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0141926

    I presume you are joking... There's a room at Bletchley Park with the real story of U-571 postered all round the walls.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2013-01-15 09:51
    This flaw (the letter was never encoded as itself) plus several others, including procedural mistakes, were detailed very well in a 1970s BBC "programme" The Secret War. (Those Brits are so funny with their high-falutin' spellings!)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_War_(TV_series)

    In fact, some of the description the presenter uses in the YouTube video is very similar to William Woollard's narration in the old TV show.

    In any case, I highly recommend this series, which spans six one hour episodes (a seventh was added later), and also details such things as the V1 and V2 program, magnetic mines, and radar. I'm not aware if it's on DVD.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2013-01-15 09:57
    Mark_T wrote: »
    I presume you are joking... There's a room at Bletchley Park with the real story of U-571 postered all round the walls.

    Sure I was. Never trust Hollywood to let the truth get in the way of a good story. :)

    BTW, from Wiki: U-571 was the name of the eponymous U-boat in U-571, a movie released in 2000, starring Matthew McConaughey, Bill Paxton and Jon Bon Jovi. The real U-571 was never captured by the Allies, nor was her Enigma Machine ever taken. The events in the film are loosely based on the British capture of U-110 and her Enigma and cipher keys.

    The real U-571 was never involved in any such events, was not captured, and was in fact sunk in January 1944, off Ireland, by a Short Sunderland flying boat from No. 461 Squadron, Royal Australian Air Force.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2013-01-15 10:06
    Along these lines, old mechanical calculators are even more intriguing!

    Friden (Holland, 1952): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S0BETniokI

    Tiger (Japan,1940): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LCu3b_1yVY nice internal view & mechanical demo

    And don't even get me started on Babbage's 5-ton, 31-place, hardcopy-printing difference engine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0anIyVGeWOI
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2013-01-16 13:20
    erco wrote: »
    BTW, from Wiki: U-571 was the name of the eponymous U-boat in U-571, a movie released in 2000, starring Matthew McConaughey, Bill Paxton and Jon Bon Jovi. The real U-571 was .
    I met Jon Bon Jovi when he made his first appearance on TOTP, he was looking around the studio during rehearsals filming with his little camcorder and stopped to tell us a joke which cannot be repeated on a family forum.
    @Phil thanks for the link I can now carry on watching :smile:
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-01-16 13:41
    We were using machines that looked like modern versions of that Tiger calculator in technical college to learn some numerical analysis on in the mid 1970s. It's quite a treat to get square roots out of those things.

    However this is the peak of pocket mechanical calculator technology http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDn_DDsBWws&list=UUoxcjq-8xIDTYp3uz647V5A&index=25
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