need some advice
mobile_bob
Posts: 50
i don't know if this is the proper place to ask this, but here goes anyway
first let me preface with this
i started dabbling with the bs2 about 6 years ago now, and i love it
i have no background in programming, know nothing of hex decimal, binary, or any of that stuff.
the guy that got me started with the bs2 later tried to swing me toward, the cubloc products, then the pic products, then something else, now he is all gaga over arduino
there appears to be a lot of hoopla over the arduino, however i am not sold on it
the reason is this, i know enough about the pbasic and the bs2 to do everything i need done, and i have no real desire to learn all the other stuff, like c++++++, machine laguage or others.
i realize there are some limitations to the bs2 however i have gotten around that by going with a master/slave architecture of my own design, very basic buss and it just works.
so now the question
why would i want to change to another product? what advantages does the arduino have over the bs2 product line?
do most folks move from one processor to another if the one they are familiar with does everything they need done?
if you guys can't of don't feel comfortable comparing the two products, maybe if someone could direct me to a link
wherein the two products are compared?
maybe i should quit listening to those that would try to get me to move to another processor and call it a day?
bob g
ps. did i say i really, really like the bs2?
first let me preface with this
i started dabbling with the bs2 about 6 years ago now, and i love it
i have no background in programming, know nothing of hex decimal, binary, or any of that stuff.
the guy that got me started with the bs2 later tried to swing me toward, the cubloc products, then the pic products, then something else, now he is all gaga over arduino
there appears to be a lot of hoopla over the arduino, however i am not sold on it
the reason is this, i know enough about the pbasic and the bs2 to do everything i need done, and i have no real desire to learn all the other stuff, like c++++++, machine laguage or others.
i realize there are some limitations to the bs2 however i have gotten around that by going with a master/slave architecture of my own design, very basic buss and it just works.
so now the question
why would i want to change to another product? what advantages does the arduino have over the bs2 product line?
do most folks move from one processor to another if the one they are familiar with does everything they need done?
if you guys can't of don't feel comfortable comparing the two products, maybe if someone could direct me to a link
wherein the two products are compared?
maybe i should quit listening to those that would try to get me to move to another processor and call it a day?
bob g
ps. did i say i really, really like the bs2?
Comments
Your question comes up from time to time and those that frequent this Forum have no problem discussing the differences.
All conversations do boil down to the final axiom - "what ever works". If you like the BS2, great. If you like another uC, cool/fine. What ever works for your given requirement. They all have their strong points.
Now I'll let the other forumistas chime in...
or "my car is faster than your car" and the old favorite "everyone is doing it"
in almost every instance that i make a change, it just ends up costing me money, time and in the end it doesn't work out
as well as the direction i was originally headed on.
so far i have seen lots of cool subsystems, such as "wow, look at the 4x20 screen showing voltage values or temperature in F and C.
the system i am working on would have so many of those little bells and whistles that no one really would end up looking at them after a day or so anyway.
i figure there is a reason why automakers use idiot lights in lieu of gauges.
its more important to me that the functions take place when i need them to take place and much less important to have some sort of pretty interface that looks cool.
this is not to say bs2 can't do these things, just that i haven't found a compelling reason to go to that extreme, and if not with the bs2 then why would i want to with another uC product?
oddly enough, i think i have answered my own question, sometimes i guess just putting the question in print brings clarity to a problem afterwhich i find the problem really wasn't a problem to start with.
answer to the question?
if it ain't broke don't fix it!
bob g
That's my cue to say how wonderful the Propeller is.
While an Arduino can run circles around a BS2, a Prop can run circles around an Arduino.
Here's one of my rambling about the Propeller(slightly trimmed version quoted below).
One big reason to switch microcontroller is cost. The BS2 excels as a learning device. As a microcontroller it's horribly expensive compared to other alternatives.
Arduinos are also relatively expensive (but not as expensive as a BS2). If you learn to use the Arduino, you could use the same AVR chips without an Arduino board. AVR makes lots of useful uCs and are relatively inexpensive. I've used a few of their chips myself where a Prop is either too large or too expensive.
Propeller can do all sorts of things. The QuickStart is a great little board that only costs $25. They are extremely useful.
The Propeller is much more powerful than the Arduino and the Propeller forum is a much nicer place to ask questions than the AVR forums. You'll be amazed at how convenient it is to be able to more than one thing at a time with the Propeller.
I often hear that the Prop is over kill for some projects. So what? If bazooka's were less expensive than pellet guns, I'd use a bazooka to shoot gofers. The Propeller is the bazooka of the microcontrollers.
At the end of my Mecanum wheeled robot thread, you'll find how someone else is using my technique of attaching Vex Mecanum wheels to a Rover 5 chassis. While he did a great job attaching his wheels (better than mine), he is having a heck of the time with the software.
The Arduino isn't powerful enough to monitor the encoders and control the motors at the same time (not to mention monitoring sensors etc.)
The Arduino uses interrupts to monitor the encoders. There are just too many interrupts coming in for the Arduino to handle. With the Prop, one of the eight cogs can monitor all four quadrature encoders leaving the other seven cogs for the rest of the tasks required in controlling the robot.
I'll try to restrain myself from continuing my Propeller evangelizing. You're free to continue in your hethonistical ways.
Haven't figured it out the reason yet...but, it'll come to me!
The answer is "sure". There's nothing inherently wrong with a BS2. It's aging a little these days, but still works well for moderate speed, moderate cost microcontroller applications. It's reliable. There's a heck of lot of educational and sample code out there and all sorts of books and other documentation. Keep in mind that the BS1 (which is older yet and slower) still works fine for some applications. We're at a time of rapid change in the microcontroller field. At some point, you will want to do a project that just doesn't fit well into a BS2 or several of them. That's the time to take a look around and find another microcontroller that's well documented, has enough sample code that you feel comfortable using it, overall costs seem to be in line with what you can afford, has a friendly, helpful support base that you feel comfortable around, etc.
the bottom line is this, this sort of system has so much room for development and optimization in hardware that eeking out very minor improvements via a change in uC is very far down my list of priorities.
the propeller however interested me a great deal from day one, because of its ability to do many things at the same time. the learning curve however is a problem for me at this point, maybe down the road if i get to where a system might be marketable and where shaving cost per unit becomes a factor.
currently with the use of 4 bs2's one as a master and 3 as slaves, with the ability to expand to as many as 7 slaves provide me with all the control handles i can ever imagine needing and having the ability to do 4 things at the same time (with the current number of uC) gives me an immense amount of control.
even thought the bs2 might be getting a bit long in the tooth, using multiple units and simple commands enables me to do things that the arduino can't do without ganging them up too.
at this point it would appear to me that although the cost is higher that with some other options, the speed at which i can apply them to my needs more than makes up for the added cost.
i suppose if there were a time that a system might be sold in huge numbers one would want to cut all the possible cost out of the system, in which case i think the propeller would be the obvious choice.
its doubtful that day will ever come, and if by some chance it did, probably better to sell the rights and let someone else move the system over to some cheaper to build product.
one final question, if i may
having peaked at the propeller a bit, is it at all friendly to learn how to code the thing by someone with absolutely no
code experience? again i know nothing of binary, hex, machine or any programming languages, other than maybe a dozen pbasic commands.
thanks guys
bob g