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WINNER!! - Forthers: Thanksgiving Challenge - it's all about the projects, baby!!! — Parallax Forums

WINNER!! - Forthers: Thanksgiving Challenge - it's all about the projects, baby!!!

mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
edited 2012-12-01 11:16 in Propeller 1
In the spirit of Thanksgiving ( we talk about it enough, we should be Thankful for Forth on the Propeller) and good old Yankee "put your money where your mouth is", it's time to call us out!!!

At the UPENE, one of our wise and project prodigious forum members said something to the effect of "Forth looks interesting but you never see anybody actually doing anything with it! Some projects USING Forth would help a lot." latterly, we've been evangelizing, debating, arguing and doing everything BUT turning out projects using Forth. I'm as guilty as the next Forther.....

Ok, you have a nice long week or weekend with Thanksgiving buried in the middle. Time to make something that actually uses Forth and showcases it. Take one of your old Forth projects (you have some, don't you?), bring it up to date, write a little, take a few pictures and post it. Start a new project and finish it by next weekend - we're supposed to be able to do rapid development, right?

Show us one of those BIG applications using the scripts from the SD card!

Do something quick and trivial!!!

JUST do SOMETHING showcasing Forth - I'm beginning to think we're all just a bunch of talk and no actiion!!

Ok, so I've tossed out the challenge....Forth Folk, rise up and meet it!!!!!

Peter can sit this out since he has a number of projects going on with his Tachyon development unless he wants to show off some past glories!!
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Comments

  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,400
    edited 2012-11-17 10:16
    Cool. How about if we sweeten the deal with a brand new, FREE Human Interface Board for the QuickStart? These aren't even released yet but I can grab one from the production line before I leave for Thanksgiving.

    Forth and Tachyon fans, rise up! There's new hardware ready to be sent to whoever Rick chooses after Thanksgiving!
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-11-17 10:25
    Ken,

    As always, you step up to the challenge!! Thank you!!

    Ok, the pot is sweeter, now you get fame AND fortune!!!

    Yay!!! Parallax rocks it again!!

    P.S. it's even easier now since I'm out of the competition! Mama always told to never pick myself in public!! :0)
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2012-11-17 10:28
    Do you mean to imply that you can actually USE Forth to write programs?

    I though its purpose was to let Forth developers argue over exactly what Forth is and is not...

    :)

    C.W.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-11-17 10:31
    Very true, C.W. but sometimes, before the indoctrination is complete, some rookie actually completes a project. They lose stack privileges when that happens! :0)
  • rod1963rod1963 Posts: 752
    edited 2012-11-17 10:47
    About time. Got tired of useless multipage rants about the structure of Forth interpreters, dictionaries. And Forthers wonder why almost no codes in Forth anymore.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-11-17 11:05
    The hordes of avid Forth fans are excitedly awaiting the outcome of this event.


    forth-event.PNG


    Err, sorry just kidding.
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  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-11-17 11:18
    Heater. wrote: »
    The hordes of avid Forth fans are excitedly awaiting the outcome of this event.


    forth-event.PNG


    Err, sorry just kidding.

    A stealthy lot, aren't we!!

    You know, guys could actually let us fail before you declare this effort a failure!!! I'm sure the outcome is inevitable but at least let us go through the motions!! :0)

    (Besides, we have corporate sponsorship, now!!)
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2012-11-17 11:31
    The message is starting to take hold!! Projects, not platforms!

    Yes! Yes! Let the Propeller Forth bells ring this weekend through Instructables, Hackaday, Dangerous Prototypes, Parallax Forums, Propellerpowered forums, and all forums of social blogs!!

    I wish I was more "FORTHY" so I can participate in this, but I'm also working on new project which is cute and cuddly.

    Woot!!!!

    Edit: Go NE Ohio! Home of Propeller project promotion!! Go ahead! Steal our claim! We dare you!

    Jeff
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2012-11-17 18:01
    I'll up the ante too since I am not a happy chappy listening to all this internal debate about Forth, I just use it.

    First off, I will submit a project to this particular competition though not as a competitor, but rather as a reference design to set a standard. Let's call it "Stacks of Tracks" since it will be based on Tachyon Forth, uses the SD object as well as the QVGA touchscreen and 44kHz audio output. So this will be a fully functional wave player complete with the touch-screen keypad etc.

    Secondly, I will have an updated adapter pcb for this same project based on my P1145 pcb in the next couple of weeks so I will award a complete unit along with the touch screen and enclosure etc to the winner. Even mindrobots can enter this part of the competition (is that okay to have another section?). Details of this board will be added to this post later but it has a Puppy Prop module with microSD, an extra SD slot, 3.5mm stereo audio out, 3.5mm stereo audio in, USB A socket for external USB/PS2 HID, 3.5mm stereo socket with RS-485, PL3 USB module, Bluetooth module etc.

    Conditions are that this is based around a Propeller chip of course and that you use any Forth for the application code with assembler kept to an absolute minimum (remember, we are showcasing Forth). The application should be stand-alone and ready to run from power-up. Points given for readability so factor out those functions into smaller words and choose a name that describes it well and fits in well with how it is used. Additional points for keeping extraneous hardware to a minimum.

    The time frame until Thanksgiving is probably a little short for this particular challenge so how about we set it for the 'Forth" of December 2012? Now if we had another one for the "Forth of the Forth" then that would be a very easy date to remember. We will see how we go with this one first.

    Since time is short I won't impose any more conditions, just get to it and may the Forth be with you!
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-11-17 18:13
    Cool, Peter! Thanks for upping the ante!!

    Ok, gang. Two Forth challenges:

    The Thanksgiving challenge for a new Parallax Human Interface Board - winner picked by me at The end of the U.S. Thanksgiving weekend.
    The Happy Chappy Challenge - show Peter he's not the only one that can actually make Forth drive a project!! Entry deadline, December Forth!!

    Hopefully, we'll have at least ONE entry to pick as a winner!!!! :0)
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2012-11-19 09:41
    Let's see what we have to work with:

    there are severalchoices of kernel:
    a bare kernel with no fluff,
    a dev kernel optimized for speed and least memory,
    an optimized dev kernel with eeprom storage
    a dev kernel with SD as storage

    there's a bunch of drivers
    async serial, PWM, servo, stepper, the cheap bluetooth modules, i think there a barometric pressure sensor, synchonous serial

    there's extensions
    ansii control characters, the software logic analyzer, Go language channels interface,

    some demos
    JupiterACE (standalone forth development terminal), MCS multiprop, spineret http server, spineret telnet server, Go language build and test automation, the Little Robot (but its not finished, and its just a cheaper tail-dragger anyway)

    then there's the stuff created by the community:
    nick's float coprossessor support, his analog computer simulator, his fast hartly transform.
    there's all caskaz's drivers for all the cool parts he plays with, and his FAT compatibility support (i don't know if this was completed).

    then there's Peter's very fast bit banging (was that 3mbps over blue tooth?) and his stepper support

    there's Dave' ANSII compatible stuff.

    And there's Loopy's documentation, he should at least get a medal for that work.

    Beside that, there isn't much to work with. But i guess one could build on any of these or combine them into a project?
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-11-19 10:40
    PB,

    I think that's where the challenge and the UPENE question/comment comes from. We heav elots of lists, lots of docs, lots of code pieces but nobody really had a tangible project to hold up and show everyone at show and tell that says "I put all these pieces together with this hardware and it runs on Forth".

    I've talked a lot, written a lot, played with various pieces/parts but don't have a project to show(yet), so who does???

    THAT'S THE CHALLENGE!!!

    So, Forthers, rise to the challenge, show some pictures, videos, code, anything that someone else would consider a project!!
  • Ron SutcliffeRon Sutcliffe Posts: 420
    edited 2012-11-19 10:48
    Rick
    Hey I missed this thread,
    What a bummer, We are living out of a suitcase. The better half thinks its too cold in northern France at this time of year. So are in Spain and about as far south as you can get without a boat. I only have a PPUSB, SDcard. and notebook with me and none of my own code.
    Hmm, I will see what I can come up with
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2012-11-19 11:11
    Maybe it is time for me to finish the Chopstick Printer that I started with a BasicStamp 2px. But use a Propeller Proto Board and PropForth. Everything is built and the Inkjet printer head just sits there unused.

    Does any one need chopsticks with their name printed on each one? Uber-fast deployment might just make it happen. Though I must tell you that Thanksgiving is only a long weekend in the USA. The next big holiday here is Chinese New Year. Taiwan cancelled Christmas as a national holiday in the mid-90's.

    I really think that once people do realize how handy interactive development can be, they will get excited about it. I certainly am. Besides I love word puzzles and Forth certain offers that aspect.

    Just give me any Kernel that works. This isn't a bowl of popcorn.

    BTW, Taiwan also cancelled Halloween as a national holiday at the same time. Halloween was actually Chang Kai Chek's birthday and Christmas was officially 'Constituition signing Day'. A lot of confusing mixed messages in these being national holidays.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2012-11-19 16:11
    Where do I get this thing you call Forth????
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-11-19 16:15
    PropFORTH Wiki: http://code.google.com/p/propforth/
    Introduction to TACHYON Forth - Includes links to files and projects
    TACHYON files via Dropbox
    BLOGS - latest announcements and tips etc

    I have to find dave Hein's pfth thread - I don't have it handy.

    Ask questions if you get stuck anyplace, we're a helpful bunch!!
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2012-11-19 16:25
    So can the contest project be done using a Quickstart board or must it be a Prop chip with all the other items needed?
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2012-11-19 17:06
    NWCCTV wrote: »
    So can the contest project be done using a Quickstart board or must it be a Prop chip with all the other items needed?

    The Quickstart would be perfect.

    C.W.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-11-19 17:47
    Anything that is a Propeller will work!! You could even reload your S2 with Forth Robot management or turn flight operations of you Elev-8!!
  • Duane C. JohnsonDuane C. Johnson Posts: 955
    edited 2012-11-19 17:51
    Hi NW;
    NWCCTV wrote: »
    So can the contest project be done using a Quickstart board or must it be a Prop chip with all the other items needed?
    Anything as long as it's forthish and Propeller.
    Mine are all scratch built on plugboards.

    Duane J
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-11-19 17:58
    : project propeller forth + ." winner, winner, chicken dinner" ;
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2012-11-20 01:52
    ctwardell wrote: »
    The Quickstart would be perfect.

    C.W.

    I am rather dated. I have no Quickstart board, but I presume that I can use a Propeller Proto Board. I have doubts that I will not win much other than the satisfaction of making a project work. But that alone makes everyone a winner... that does something.

    So as Alfred E. Newman might have said, "The documentation is not quite right? What me worry?"

    In other words, taking a break from all this other stuff is welcome. I might even learn to live without CREATE and DOES> and learn to love it.
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2012-11-20 02:36
    I am rather dated. I have no Quickstart board, but I presume that I can use a Propeller Proto Board. I have doubts that I will not win much other than the satisfaction of making a project work. But that alone makes everyone a winner... that does something.

    So as Alfred E. Newman might have said, "The documentation is not quite right? What me worry?"

    In other words, taking a break from all this other stuff is welcome. I might even learn to live without CREATE and DOES> and learn to love it.

    Just has to use Forth running on a Propeller, platform doesn't matter. I was just saying Quickstart would be perfect because there are a lot of them in the wild if someone wants to replicate the project.

    C.W.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2012-11-20 03:23
    ctwardell wrote: »
    Just has to use Forth running on a Propeller, platform doesn't matter. I was just saying Quickstart would be perfect because there are a lot of them in the wild if someone wants to replicate the project.

    C.W.

    Besides, the Parallax prize is an add-on for the Quick-Start. I am already getting started just for the fun of it.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2012-11-20 05:51
    And so, here is a BEFORE photo of the existing Ink Jet Chopstick Printer set up to be driven by a BS2px. I'll cannibalized it for adaptation to use the Propeller Proto Board. I am a bit unsure that I need LCD or even input buttons as the USB link of the Propeller Protoboard will allow me to use a Toshiba NB250 as the terminal.

    I just hope that the HP ink cartridge is still good or that I can quickly get a fresh one.

    There are two steppers involved. A Parallax Inkjet kit that was for the BOEbot. And the horizontal control was salvaged from the internals of an HP Inkjet printer. One Tamiya board was cut in half to make supports for the chopstick while printing and one end holds a rotating stepper motor.

    First step is to make sure the steppers will work properly in Forth.
    Second step, get the print head tested.
    If all that works out, the real fun begins.
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  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2012-11-20 08:02
    What is Prof Braino's project going to be? A robotic administrator? A critical path monitoring application?

    Progress Report.

    I have taken the first baby step and removed the BS2px board. And now the Prop Proto Board is in place. I just need to find my double adhesive foam to stick on a DIP breadboard for the ULN2803 and the wiring should fall into place rather quickly.

    But it is 1am here and I suspect I have no double adhesive foam in the place.

    Maybe a shopping trip tomorrow for that and to see if replacement HP inkjet cartridges are locally available.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2012-11-21 05:35
    What is Prof Braino's project going to be? A robotic administrator? A critical path monitoring application?

    hacksaw blade POV project. It was the project in a course I taught (once). But I never got around to doing it myself, since it involved actually touching hardeware besides the keyboard, which was beyond my scope at the time.

    I've been very careful to only document and not actually use the code up to this point, as before v5.0 the kernel was in a state of flux, and I did not want to entirely loose my "beginner perspective". Beginner perspective has always been kind of a stretch in my case,maybe I should just get started. Now that v5.3 is finished, its a reasonable time for me to start at the beginning,and record my progress. It will be interesting to see if it pays off by folks following along. To me, it will be interesting to see if I can even get something to work at all.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2012-11-21 07:56
    Need a bit of help.
    I am using a Parallax Serial Inkjet Printer Board to actually print onto chopsticks. To do so, I need to control it via USB serial or TTL bi-directional serial.

    For first tests I am using the USB and Minicom or Putty in Linux as Teraterm is a special installation in Ubuntu.
    I do have the baud set right and it appears I get 'signs of life' in the form of a > prompt from the Serial Inkjet Printer Board into the USB and through Minicom or Putty both.

    But to actually test and verify the print head's output, I have to use <STX> then up to 32 ASCII characters and then <ETX>. I did something and the printhead did driip ink which may have been a printing behavior, but I need to reliably replicate this.

    <STX> is numerically 2 and <ETX> is numerically 3 (in bits that would be 0000_0010 and 0000_0011 respectively).

    I just cannot figure out how to send these non visual ASCII codes to the board through Minicom or Putty. I Have looked at ESC[ sequences, but they appear not to go so low. There are alternatives, but if someone has a simple solution it would allow me to confirm the print head is operational as it hasn't been used for a few years.

    I can order another inkjet cartridge if there is a problem, but it will take a day or two as these are industrial HP cartridges, not retail for a retail printer. Taiwan is not shut down for Thanksgiving, so if I get this resolved soon, it will all work out.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2012-11-21 08:56
    I think I found the solution... <STX> is cntl-B and <ETX> is cntl-C

    I am getting something, but still not sure if I need to replace the ink cartridge. Maybe I'll just order a spare tomorrow and move on with other things. I have two steppers to get work and some aligments to test.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2012-11-21 12:23
    Minicom

    Minicom is the recommended terminal program for propforth under linux.


    <STX> is numerically 2 and <ETX> is numerically 3 (in bits that would be 0000_0010 and 0000_0011 respectively).

    I just cannot figure out how to send these non visual ASCII codes to the board through Minicom or Putty.

    You are thinking too hard.
    2 emit
    3 emit
    

    send 2 and 3 to the output stream.

    The remiander of the answer for setting up serial on arbitrary i/o pins is in the propforth 5.0 thread
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