My computer broke yesterday - how much do you really need?
RDL2004
Posts: 2,554
I turned off my main computer yesterday morning and 15 minutes later when I pushed the power button it wouldn't start. I'm really surprised at this. I built it in 2007 and expected it to last at least 10 years. I wish I knew what was wrong with it.
It had been running just fine for years. I can't remember the last time it was completely shut off though, probably over a year. After a couple of hours of testing and trying to get it to start up, I just gave up and ordered parts for a new machine from Newegg. I just checked tracking and they're on the truck, out for delivery (24 hrs by UPS ground, yay Newegg and their Memphis warehouse). It was kind of a "spur of the moment" decision, I sure hope I ordered the right stuff.
The thing is, last night, with nothing better to do, I took out of the closet an old computer I built in 1999 and hooked it up to the TV. I had to install a few programs before I felt it was safe to get on the internet, but that took less than an hour and, to my shock and amazement, that old computer actually worked pretty well. It handled the web surfing just fine and I was even able to play movies with no problem (1280x720).
For a moment, it made me wonder if I had wasted hundreds of dollars earlier that day.
It had been running just fine for years. I can't remember the last time it was completely shut off though, probably over a year. After a couple of hours of testing and trying to get it to start up, I just gave up and ordered parts for a new machine from Newegg. I just checked tracking and they're on the truck, out for delivery (24 hrs by UPS ground, yay Newegg and their Memphis warehouse). It was kind of a "spur of the moment" decision, I sure hope I ordered the right stuff.
The thing is, last night, with nothing better to do, I took out of the closet an old computer I built in 1999 and hooked it up to the TV. I had to install a few programs before I felt it was safe to get on the internet, but that took less than an hour and, to my shock and amazement, that old computer actually worked pretty well. It handled the web surfing just fine and I was even able to play movies with no problem (1280x720).
For a moment, it made me wonder if I had wasted hundreds of dollars earlier that day.
Comments
My guess is that the power supply is the reason why your computer won't boot. Usually when it is something else the machine will turn on and fail to POST.
How much computer you need really depends upon what you do with it. I got by for years on a 2001 era laptop that I used for email, web surfing, and running the Basic Stamp IDE. I upgraded because I recently received another free laptop of 2007 vintage. This turned out to be a win because I recently started using Fritzing and it works much better on the new machine. But I don't transcode video, or do 3D modeling, both eat CPU from what I understand.
Now I seem to be dependent on $300 notebooks and about to buy my third if the replacement battery doesn't arrive soon.
For the most part, both cars and computers have just been an expense, though necessary ones as nearly no one wants to hire a guy without transportation or a person that can't operate a computer.
Because I am in Taiwan, I always have a backup computer available if the main one fails. Redundancy is a good thing. But it sounds like you did not attempt a repair or diagnosis of any sort.
That old computer might work even better in Ubuntu Linux than in Windows. XP is soon to be no longer supported and Windows 98 is not supported. I am not sure that Windows 7 or 8 will support legacy hardware as good as Linux does.
now plug in ac cord and try, worked for me a half a dozens times.
This DOES sound like a power supply issue. A relatively cheap fix. (Unless you are looking for a good excuse to upgrade.
Jeff
I checked the power supply and all the voltages are good, it could still be flaky under load though. The fan on the video card spins up as does the fan on the back of the case. The CPU fan though, kind of spins and stops, spins and stops, occasionally it continues to run for a while. The HDD light just blinks slowly, there's no continuous activity as it would normally do while Windows is booting up. There's no video output at all. Sometimes the screen will briefly go blank instead of just saying "no signal", like it may have gotten a blip of something, but that's it. I tried pulling the battery and clearing the CMOS, but that did nothing. I also removed every non-essential piece of hardware and pulled and re-seated everything else except the processor.
At this point I'm pretty much convinced it's the motherboard, probably something in the power system. The processor is a Core2 Duo and the memory is from Crucial (Micron), I'd be really surprised if either of those went bad.
Would there be some kind of output on the screen from the BIOS even if the processor or memory was bad?
The sad thing is, Newegg only stocks a couple of motherboards that still support LGA 775 and DDR2.
edit: Ah, Jeff I was typing when you posted. When the new parts arrive, first thing I'll do is try the new power supply in the old computer, just to be sure that's not the problem. Also, the computer has two bootable drives in it, so that should rule out the possibility of a bad drive.
I had one motherboard go bad. When I turned the computer on there was activity like you described, and the monitor indicated there was a video signal, although the screen was black. However, the machine couldn't POST it just hung in the initial power on stage.
That would be pretty much a bad motherboard. Is it very dirty inside? Dust and dirty create insulation and the heat may trigger senors on the motherboard. A cleaning with something like a TV tuner spray cleaner might get it up and running - but it is still 50/50 that something is damaged beyond repair.
A lot of Core Duo boards came with a video card that was a huge power hog and a big heat problem as they were rushed into production for the Vista launch that was supposed to offer incredible video. The motherboard might revive without such a video card.
Z77 LGA1155, Core i5-3570K, 128GB SSD, 8GB of RAM. I sure hope it all works, I really didn't spend enough time researching.
I may just go ahead and order one of those LGA 775/DDR2 motherboards, they're only about $50, just to see if that's the problem (after I rule out the power supply).
I remember at the office, they had bought a heap of Olivetti M380 desktops back in 1993.
(386DX 20MHz, 2MB RAM, ST506 HDD... Yeah, it was junk. My 1990 386SX 16MHz with an iDE drive outperformed it. They bought them before I started... )
The whole lot had the PSU failing within a couple of months of each other. And it was the same part in the PSU each time.
The 1996 Pentium 133MHz tower I got cusom built... Still works just as fine, though I added SCSI drives, larger HDDs, more RAM and a network card over the years. (Runs OS/2)
I have an early Acer netBook... With a 'non-standard' SSD. Guess which part has failed? and from what I've read other places, tends to fail on exactly that model?
This message is written on my Mac Mini from way back when(early 2006) they switched to Intel...
It's not quite the same machine anymore, though.
RAM was upgraded from 512MB to 2GB.
The 80GB HDD was replaced with a 80GB SSD. My home area and iTunes library sits on a FireWire connected Iomega MiniMax 1TB HDD.
(The MiniMax is shaped like the Mini... This is important for a machine that lives beneath my 46" TV)
Oh, and the wimpy CoreDuo 1.66GHz(T2300) was replaced with a Core2Duo 2.16GHz(T7300)
(Drop-in replacement thanks to Apple using socketed CPUs in the early models)
Still needs to have racing stripes added...
If I wanted to, I guess I could pull ole 'Sawtooth' (PowerMac G4/400MHz) from the attic and let it take over the iTunes library again. Except that it rips CDs at 2x while my Mini does it at 12x.
(My iTunes library is 100GB and growing)
Of course, for notetaking on the bus and so on, I use my trusty Psion S3c(1995)
Got to love a machine that only needs a couple of AAs every few months...
This is because a fan failure isn't 'immediately destructive' for the CPU or other components. There's time to give the user an error message.
EDIT: If it IS the fan, spinning it by hand will reveal the problem. It's either completely stuck, or the force will temporarily unbind the fan so that it registers RPMs and the computer will be able to start.
Ah, Circuitsoft, the memory I got is DDR3-2133. Too fast shouldn't be a problem, should it? It said it was compatible with all LGA1155/56 systems.
I did kind of under-buy on the video card, since I was pretty happy with the 8800 GTS in the old computer. I expect that to be the only possible future upgrade. And I forgot to order a bracket for the SSD, I guess I'll use duct tape or something.
Intel + Microsoft = Nobody questions the need to upgrade
The only program I ever found to run on my new machine but not the old one was a thousand-cell finite element analysis model.
Nowadays at work I use an EEEPC with a 1.4 GHz Atom for nearly everything; in the office it's hooked up to a big VGA monitor and real keyboard and mouse, but when I need to go portable it's wonderfully light and has great battery life.
Many years ago, Apple did a study of users and tested their speed to do tasks with a mouse vs. keyboard shortcuts. They found that the users who used the keyboard actually took longer, but that they thought that they were faster. The keyboard users experienced short term amnesia. I think the same often happens to me when I wait for a webpage to load or a window to open.
-Phil
I found the source: the book Tog on Interface by Bruce Tognazzini, as recommended by Mike Green here. A quote, page 26:
What happens with keyboard shortcuts is the user must context and task switch between mouse input and keyboard input. All of those add up, and a simple right click drag does happen faster than a shift to the keyboard, entry, then back to the mouse to continue.
On the other hand, simply not using the mouse at all presents much differently. Users of text editors designed to be driven from the keyboard will not be task switching much at all, pulling those numbers up considerably.
IMHO, getting to that level takes a bit more effort than it does with mouse, and that's highly likely to keep keyboard focused editors a niche. Good news on that too. The ones out there are best in class. Not much needs to be done, whereas the mouse driven ones are always needing this or that as GUI input standards come and go.
There is also general memory in play. Some people can remember very large amounts of things and recall them quickly. Others can't, and the GUI editors have an advantage in this area. Typing assist and context type help / actions as seen in the Microsoft products for example, really boost the productivity of new users, while not too significantly impacting ones that know their stuff.
Now on CAD systems, the mouse only paradigm is definitely slower. CAD, at least mechanical CAD and design type CAD (think Maya, etc...) is best done as a two hand affair. Model manipulation using keys and selection modifiers using same completely transform the experience. CAD is a stream of detail choices with a fairly broad selection set active both in the data being worked on and the program options available at any one time.
Keyboard only is unusable. Mouse only can be productive, but anyone really wanting to get serious puts both hands in the action, optionally using one of those 3D multi-axis input devices. People pay hundreds of dollars for those over and over and over. Totally worth it. Every metric I've ever ran on assembly modeling is peaked out with those devices, mouse + keyboard second, mouse only trailing and I don't think anyone can even do keyboard only CAD today...
Context is everything on these kinds of statements.
my gosh I have Good luck with computers , just NOT HDDS .
just a heads up to the OP.. a friend just pimped a Nice VM box . 8 GB ram 4 core 4.2 GHZ amd .. and a 128 SATA 3 SSD
the monster can go from POST to logged in to Debain in under 3 Sec ..... I dont get wowed by specs but that was just Yea .* drools*
the Only thing I need CPU HP for is Video . and Really I could spend 10 K on ANY system and stull have to let stuff render .
as it stands I can do my edits and stuff and just let it cook over night .
and now that I have 3 Mac minis . I can do a small cluster
What is annoying is the way such a broad statement is made. Here that effectively "mouse is always faster than keyboard". Without any specification of the tasks involved.
I do like this:
Perhaps true, but replace "special-function key to press" with "meaningless, tiny, indecipherable, hard to hit icon, hidden in a tool bar you cannot find to click" and you have the same problem, only worse. I have such amnesia with many gui apps.
Phil, Perhaps that's why vi does not use icons or special function keys, removes both kinds of amnesia.
At one end (for video and number crunching) I have a quad core AMD, dual booting Winderz 7 and Fedora 17 and at the other (for a few old games) I have a Dell laptop, Pentium 266.
Filling in the gap and wasting a few kilowatts:
a Core 2 Duo iMac
a G5 iMac
a G4 Powermac
a G3 Powermac
an Acer netbook
a Compaq P4 desktop
an SGI Fuel
an SGI 540 quad Xeon
I have most computing needs covered! ;-)
@
I've been very lazy, unmotivated,time limited and space limited lately. For most things, I've been using my iPad and iPhone, browsing, reading, music, writing short things, minimal number crunching, etc. I find something else for bill paying and programming.
Last Christmas, I bought myself a really nice 17" Toshiba I7 laptop with Win7, 8GB RAM, 750GB disk, etc., etc......it's OK but I'm not excited about it. It's a Windows machine because I still need windows for some things.
A while after that, I was in Wal-Mart and saw a 17" HP I3 laptop on super clearance...I bought it, bumped the memory up to 8GB and loaded it with Fedora - It's FAST and FUN!
I also have a Mac Mini which is my desktop machine now - 2 monitors, 8GB, plenty of disk, Win7 on Parallels (when I get around to it). It's also FAST, FUN and FRIENDLY. When funds allow and time allows, I can also see a BIGGER Mac in my future.
There's also an Acer Netbook(2GB) in the stable that also happens to run Linux......there is also a Win7 Desktop and a Linux Desktop under my desk and an HP DL-380 server in my basement and the daughter's laptop and the wife's Mac Air and iMac..and the poor Win7 Acer Netbook that is doomed to have 1GB of memory since I don't want to take it completely apart to change out the memory.
What do I NEED? My iPhone, iPad and my Acer Netbook cover everything I NEED to do.
The case has one of those gaudy LED lit fans in the front and a blue power LED, both of which I'll have to replace, but all is fine for now. At least it starts up and it appears that all the major components are working.
I'm sure it'll change once it's actually doing something, but just sitting here looking at the 3D BIOS, it's totally silent, very important for a computer that's going to be right next to the TV in the living room.
There are a ton of USB ports yet to be wired up, 8 USB 3.0 and 6 USB 2.0 are supported - I am not going hook them all up. The motherboard is nice (check out the little 2 digit POST display on the bottom right).
SGI!!!
I miss my Octane o2 .. THAT was a computer ! all backplane based ( I looks like a Bread maker HA!
You mentioned getting a Mac Mini. My iMac G5 just died, and I've been struggling with an underpowered Linux Mint box as a temporary replacement. The Mini looks interesting, since I already have a good monitor to plug into it. But what do you do for an optical drive, since they no longer come with one?
-Phil
I use a USB DVDRW when I need it, but the need is very rare.