Help please - Looking for a Quadcopter
zazkapulsk
Posts: 5
Hi guys
I would appreciate your help.
After building my own quadcopter from scratch using Gadgeteer hardware (not easy, but doable) I am looking for something a bit different.
I am interested in buying a kit or a ready-made quadcopter with specific characteristics for a specific use I am in my early stages of my robotics/machine vision doctorate and require a quadcopter for the research.
Requirements
Primary Objective Hovering, not Maneuvering
Dimensions More or less the palm of your hand
Maximum Possible Altitude of Operation 3000 ft
Operation Time Anything above 5 minutes would be good. 10 minutes would be great.
Weight The less the better, but that not a main concern.
Price The same.
On board HD video capture and transmission in realtime. Audio is not required.
Data transmission in real time (altitude, attitude, battery level, additional user data)
Pre-Programmable and Remote Control Capabilities
The more hardy and durable (less fragile and gentle) the better
Optional large-distnace communication is good
Any pointers?
Thanks!
I would appreciate your help.
After building my own quadcopter from scratch using Gadgeteer hardware (not easy, but doable) I am looking for something a bit different.
I am interested in buying a kit or a ready-made quadcopter with specific characteristics for a specific use I am in my early stages of my robotics/machine vision doctorate and require a quadcopter for the research.
Requirements
Primary Objective Hovering, not Maneuvering
Dimensions More or less the palm of your hand
Maximum Possible Altitude of Operation 3000 ft
Operation Time Anything above 5 minutes would be good. 10 minutes would be great.
Weight The less the better, but that not a main concern.
Price The same.
On board HD video capture and transmission in realtime. Audio is not required.
Data transmission in real time (altitude, attitude, battery level, additional user data)
Pre-Programmable and Remote Control Capabilities
The more hardy and durable (less fragile and gentle) the better
Optional large-distnace communication is good
Any pointers?
Thanks!
Comments
Do you want to transmit HD too? If so, I'm not aware of anything capable of transmitting HD that would be light enough to go on a palm sized quadcopter.
I've used one of HobbyKing's $100 "just add radio" quadcopters and I'm very pleased with it. They now have a newer version.
I think the HobbyKing/Tunigy 'copter can fly for over 5 minutes on a charge and can likely fly over 3000ft (if you can see it to control that high).
You'd need to replace the board in order to get it to hover on its own. It also doesn't come with any video gear.
I'm not aware of anything for sale that will meet all your requirements. Maybe someone else knows on a 'copter that can do all this?
Let's say I follow your advice and buy HK's quads. Would you please explain in layman's terms what additional things should I do?
Thank you.
I think he is saying it wouldn't be feasible using that copter. There is no on board power left over for your electronics, and very little lifting capacity. You'd spend a fortune to find light weight devices that could be mounted to it, or have to compromise on your requirements.
The one thing that could change that is your altitude. When you say 3000' do you mean you want it to go up 3000' above ground level, or your ground altitude is 3000' MSL and you want to fly it say 50' in the air?
I'm talking about flying that altitude above the ground. It can be 1000 ft, there's a flexibility.
Anyways, I'd appreciate your idea as to the lightest and smallest quad possible in making this happen.
Edit: It's not HD, but this package may just be light enough to carry in the quadcopter Duane mentioned. Whether 100 mW is adequate probably depends on where you're flying. Urban areas are notoriously noisy in an RF sense.
You're welcome.
I'm not sure I'd classify my reply as "advice" to buy HK's quad. It's just the only one I've used that comes close to being "palm sized".
Xanadu is correct in his thinking:
While it is likely possible the small HK quad could do much, if not most, of what you want to do, it would require a different controller board with the sensors required for attitude and altitude sensing.
I purchased on of these MultiWii boards from HK a while ago but I haven't tried it out yet.
One issue the small quad has is the motors or speed controllers interferes with ultrasound senors (at least the sensor I tried). Some quad controllers (HoverFly) use an ultrasound sensor to determine altitude above ground level. You might have trouble finding an ultrasound sensor that will work with this quad. You could still use an altimeter for altitude sensing.
I added a second PCB to my small quad. There's a Propeller chip on the additional board I use to control 16 RGB LEDs. I had planned to have the Propeller monitor the ultrasound but the ultrasound quits working once the motors start. I use a set of Wixels to allow the Propeller to communicate with the PC while the quad is flying. I like the Wixel as a wireless device in this application since it allows me to program the Propeller wirelessly.
I hope to add sensors to the Propeller board and only use it to control the quad.
While it should be possible to control the quad using the Wixel this would require some additional programing of the quad's control board and some way of interfacing joysticks to the ground based Wixel. I presently use a Spektrum DX7 transmitter and a small Spektrum receiver.
I'm using a FlyCam One eco 2 with the small quad. This camera is nice and small and doesn't weigh much but I'm not aware of any way of transmitting the video in real time using this camera.
Here's a picture of my small quadcopter.
My small quadcopter doesn't fly well with the these added components. The added weight makes it harder to control. I'll likely remove the ultrasound sensor and one of the PCBs in order to decrease the weight.
The transmission of a video signal is a big obstacle when using this small quad. While there are some video transmitters that may be small enough to be carried by the small quadcopter, the video transmitter would likely significantly reduce the flight time by draining the batteries much faster than normal. A HD camera that can interface with a video transmitter would likely weigh more than the FlyCam One. I'm not sure how much flight time you'd be able to get once adding these extra components to the quadcopter.
There's some additional information about cameras to use with a quadcopter in this thread.
I have some quadcopter links in post #10 of my index.
I'm not sure what you mean by "additional things to do". I could help you with finding the equipment needed to get the small quad flying but much of what you're trying to do, I haven't yet done myself.
If you want video resolution above NTSC, you might need to use some sort of onboard computer/smart phone to compress the video before transmitting it. This would likely require a larger quadcopter than the small HK one.
I think the AR Drone can transmit video to a smart phone. I don't know the resolution of the AR Drone's camera.
It's going to have to be strong and durable. carbon tubes, good carbon props - Sure.
As to the size - we are planning on deploying them housed in "eggs" that should open during the fall - so we don't want these to be too large. I'll make the requirement a bit more flexible - max 30 cm.
HD video is out, obviously - FPV is in.
About control - waypoints, not remote control. The quad will have to transmit video and data (position, etc.)
Help me build a setup, and you'll be quoted in the thanks in the paper and future publications!
You may want to also sign up for the forums over at DIYdrones:
http://www.diydrones.com/
There's a lot of hardware stuff going on over there.
I was going to suggest rcgroups, but I see zazkapulsk has already found it.
When you say "waypoints, not remote control", is the quad going to find these waypoints on its own?
Where is the "machine vision" going to take place? On the quadcopter or at some basestation?
@skylight, No, it's not a BigTrak, it's ballast to keep it from flying supersonic.
The waypoints are going to be coded and entered before deployment.
No machine vision, just FPV video and transmission, to an airborne base station.
A lot of speculations were made, and I didn't prioritize.
We're a group at the Technion Institute of Technology, trying to develop real-time fast-response civilian aid in the case of earthquakes. The idea is throwing a quad from a high-flying aircraft, let it drop, start it in mid-air, and make it hover and film the site looking for casualties, before the cavalry arrives.
So, with that said -
1000 ft is good also. This means flying 1000 ft above the ground and not the base height of the ground.
I'd go a bit larger than my hand, but 30 cm is max.
video - I went crazy. FPV is good enough, no HD required.
Thanks
So I'm guessing you plan to have a GPS unit on each device?
"FPV" is used to describe controlling an aircraft based on the video feed coming back from it. I'm (once again) guessing you want the quadcopters to fly themselves and just send the video back for observation purposes not for control purposes?