We had a service a few years ago (land line) that would intercept all calls from unknown IDs. We wouldn't hear the phone ring unless the caller left a message saying who they were - then it would ring and we could either press a button and accept the call or just hang up.
So the first question I have to ask is, how does (if at all) an incoming robocall differ from a non-robocall?
Okay I am sure you know the obvious, but for the sake of discussion, I will answer your question.
A non-robocall has a human on the initiating telephonic device ready to speak when the receiving telephonic device is answered.
Robocalls are definitely a big problem as far as I am concerned, and obviously it will take an intermediate device to intercept the call before the receiving phone rings.
I do not know much about phones, but I believe the solution should be relatively simple, but it will be an unnecessary hassle for the person initiating the call. However in order to stop these unwanted calls, another procedure must be incorporated to stop this obscene behavior.
I believe the solution is as simple as adding a microcontroller which picks up the phone (off hook state) when a call is received before the receiver receives an audible indication, and then generates a random number and presents it to the caller. The caller must then enter the random number into their phone within a defined time limit. If no number is entered or an incorrect number is entered, the phone will be hung up (on hook state), but if a correct number is entered, then an audible indication will be presented to the receiver.
The benefit of this method is that each call would have to be made manually in order to bypass the random number generator and it would eliminate automatic calling methods. Of course this would not stop telemarketers, but there is other legislation for this.
I should also note that it may be a little more difficult then just random numbers, so perhaps random numbers should be present to the caller at various pitches, so as to make it very difficult for an automated machine to decipher.
Bruce
EDIT: Instead of a random number generator, start intergrating all phones with an LCD screen, which presents the caller with a cryptic passcode similar to those found on many websites. An example is shown below.
EDIT: However there should also be a contigency for a list of bypass numbers which can be entered by the receiver for calls received from family, friends, and known business associates.
I believe the solution is as simple as adding a microcontroller which picks up the phone (off hook state) when a call is received before the receiver receives an audible indication, and then generates a random number and presents it to the caller. The caller must then enter the random number into their phone within a defined time limit. If no number is entered or an incorrect number is entered, the phone will be hung up (on hook state), but if a correct number is entered, then an audible indication will be presented to the receiver.
The benefit of this method is that each call would have to be made manually in order to bypass the random number generator and it would eliminate automatic calling methods. Of course this would not stop telemarketers, but there is other legislation for this.
I should also note that it may be a little more difficult then just random numbers, so perhaps random numbers should be present to the caller at various pitches, so as to make it very difficult for an automated machine to decipher.
Bruce
Every time I call the service line for my bank account, they ask me to speak my card number. The computer always get those 16 digits of mine, and it most likely works for numerous other people as well. I don't think it would be very difficult for the computer to then put those numbers back on the line and bypass your security.
Okay I am sure you know the obvious, but for the sake of discussion, I will answer your question.
A non-robocall has a human on the initiating telephonic device ready to speak when the receiving telephonic device is answered.
Robocalls are definitely a big problem as far as I am concerned, and obviously it will take an intermediate device to intercept the call before the receiving phone rings.
I do not know much about phones, but I believe the solution should be relatively simple, but it will be an unnecessary hassle for the person initiating the call. However in order to stop these unwanted calls, another procedure must be incorporated to stop this obscene behavior.
I believe the solution is as simple as adding a microcontroller which picks up the phone (off hook state) when a call is received before the receiver receives an audible indication, and then generates a random number and presents it to the caller. The caller must then enter the random number into their phone within a defined time limit. If no number is entered or an incorrect number is entered, the phone will be hung up (on hook state), but if a correct number is entered, then an audible indication will be presented to the receiver.
The benefit of this method is that each call would have to be made manually in order to bypass the random number generator and it would eliminate automatic calling methods. Of course this would not stop telemarketers, but there is other legislation for this.
I should also note that it may be a little more difficult then just random numbers, so perhaps random numbers should be present to the caller at various pitches, so as to make it very difficult for an automated machine to decipher.
Bruce
EDIT: Instead of a random number generator, start intergrating all phones with an LCD screen, which presents the caller with a cryptic passcode similar to those found on many websites. An example is shown below.
EDIT: However there should also be a contigency for a list of bypass numbers which can be entered by the receiver for calls received from family, friends, and known business associates.
The phone rings, you pick it up and find it's a robocall. You push *RBT and hang up. Since you and about 500 people pushed *RBT within 15 seconds of getting the call, the phone company's system detects this and blocks that number from calling any other people who've subscribed to the NO-ROBO list. It's a crowd-sourcing thing.
On thing that the FTC is offering to entrants is their complaint file containing, I presume, a continuously-updated list of robocall-originating phone numbers. Just as is done with email spam, I do not believe any single-pronged attack will be effective while not inconveniencing those you want to speak with. This entails a hybrid approach using the FTC's blacklist, your own whitelist, and some sort of captcha system for numbers that are on neither list.
The phone rings, you pick it up and find it's a robocall. You push *RBT and hang up. Since you and about 500 people pushed *RBT within 15 seconds of getting the call, the phone company's system detects this and blocks that number from calling any other people who've subscribed to the NO-ROBO list. It's a crowd-sourcing thing.
THIS ~
I mean it works for Spam here on this and other forums . why not phones ,
I do not receive robocalls from numerous parties, but those that I do receive are very persistent and are dedicated to committing fraud. Approximately 6 months ago, I called the office of the Secretary of State of Indiana to complain about one specific caller. Their office told me that this particular caller was being investigated by the FTC and that they were unable to catch them, because they were out of this country and used disposable phone numbers for their crimes and harassment.
This is the one I called to complain about. Every once in a while, I will press the proper button to speak with them, and when I get a live person on the phone, I tell them:
the United States government is looking for you and when they find you, which no doubt they will, they are going to throw you in prison for a long, long time, and you will suffer in there because you have upset an enormous amount of people. Be very careful when you drop your soap.
I once had about a five minute discussion with one of these guys. It was comical to say the least. I bet I made him think at least a little about the consequences of his actions.
This is really a two-part solution.
1. How to identify a robot call after you have answered the phone.
2. How to identify a robot call in the telephone network via the dialing behavior.
For part one, I suppose recognizing robotic speech versus natural speech might be useful.
For part two, the phone company would have to monitor the uniformity of the dialing rate and the high rate of outgoing calls.
Of course, you could do what I do. I just ask if they speak English and they hang up immediately. I know this wouldn't work in the USA - you would have to ask them if they speak Uzbeckistani or something else.
Any action required by the caller, during the call procedure, would help bring this menace to an end. And if they hired more people to compensate for the manual procedure, I believe they would be much easier to find. However, I believe that many of these calls are being initiated from a middle eastern country, such as Iran, which makes it nearly an impossibility to capture and prosecute the perpetrators.
On the other hand, I was also thinking that this could be a government conspiracy to fund an illegal government project.
Any action required by the caller, during the call procedure, would help bring this menace to an end. And if they hired more people to compensate for the manual procedure, I believe they would be much easier to find. However, I believe that many of these calls are being initiated from a middle eastern country, such as Iran, which makes it nearly an impossibility to capture and prosecute the perpetrators.
On the other hand, I was also thinking that this could be a government conspiracy to fund an illegal government project.
Sorry to here that you feel this is so dire. I guess that means that anyone calling the USA should have to prove their identity to make a connection.
A government conspiracy? For some, the government is always a conspiracy, and of course many of those are criminals. I don't see how at this point if might be considered an illegal government project. But it might be necessary to get rid of all those calling cards that everyone abuses.
These days, anyone with a real reason to call the USA from Taiwan is generally using Skype.
Automation and programability have a down side. Having call forwarding redirect to the police might seem a good idea to you, but I am sure the police would disagree.
Sorry to here that you feel this is so dire. I guess that means that anyone calling the USA should have to prove their identity to make a connection.
Yes, in fact, I would prefer that anyone calling me from anywhere should have to prove their identity, unless of course they are listed on my bypass list.
The situation is definitely dire! The same people were calling my number 2-3 times a day at one point, but now it is down to about 2-3 times a week.
I am not a big government conspiracy fan, but I do believe that government conspiracies do exist, especially pertaining to the CIA. For example, the Iran Contra Affair and the JFK assasination, just to name a few.
That could be arranged as a special service, like an unlisted number. I guess you would have to have a camera verify who it is and/or a fingerprint reader. If all else fails, each person would have some sort of encrypted keyword.
If only I could stop the hundreds of email that are sent me by odd sorts that believe people really want to read stuff from outta nowhere. My junk email to real message ratio is roughly 500 to 1.
Also please consider that I am not the only one receiving these phone calls, it is a nationwide problem that affects thousands and thousands of people, perhaps millions. In fact, the situation is so dire that the FTC is offering $50K for a solution, because they can't stop it! I don't know how other countries are affected by these robocalls, but in the USA, it is a common widespread nuisance and most commonly associated with fraud. In the State of Indiana, robocalls are a criminal offense, and I am sure other states have similar laws. If the FTC is involved and can't catch them on their own and seeking outside help, you can imagine it is a very BIG problem.
I made a mistake earlier, it was the Attorney Generals office that I called, not the Secretary of State. Here is a link pertaining to robocalls and the Attorney Generals office in Indiana:
I have a cell phone and it's on a pay per minute plan. These robo-calls typically cost me a dollar or so a week. Not a lot, but it kind of ticks me off. If this charge had to be paid by the caller instead of the receiver, it might cut down the number of these calls quite a bit.
Now multiply that $1 a week by the number of people with a similar pay plan =$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ X 52 weeks = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ per year.
And that is only a small fraction of the cost to consumers and legitimate communication companies, not to memtion the actual poor suckers who are scammed out of their hard earned money.
I've been out of the USA since 1994, so this type of thing is new to me. But I don't have an ATM card because Taiwanese banks were notorious for scam artists and extortionist getting paid via ATM cards.
In any case, everyone I don't want to talk to starts the conversation in Chinese or Taiwanese, unless it is the dentist rescheduling my appointment. So I rather enjoy the language barrier.
But the reality is that I even get a few odd balls fishing for response on Skype. Mostly I just either ignore, delete, play dumb, or hang up. And, yes.... I pay 50% of any cell call made to me; but I never seem to be over my monthly minimum. I guess I just have too few people to talk to - aside from the Forum.
Phone companies want more traffic, why would they fix it?
I pretty much follow the same rule for land line and wireless:
1) phone rings
2) check caller ID - if I recognize caller's name or number and I want/need to talk, I answer phone, otherwise, let it go to voice mail
3) check voice mail for messages, if someone chooses not to leave a message, then they don't get to or don't want to talk to me.
Folks place too much urgency on phone calls - to the point of interrupting other phone calls or face to face communication to take a new phone call.
Also for a land line, you can monitor the voltage levels of the TecCo...
On Hook.....approximately 48V
Off Hook.....approximately 5V
Ringing..... +/- 48V
Just prior to the phone ringing the voltage will cross the zero line, which allows you to monitor and 'intercept' the phone before any of the other phones actually ring.
I am amazed that the contest only offers $50k. The FTC would save that much the first day with the reduced number of complaints. I find that I have found joy in two methods in dealing with these types of calls:
ignore the unknown call as 'mindrobots' mentioned (I choose this when I don't care to answer the phone)
When I am in a jovial mood, though, I answer the call with one of a few fun responses:
a) "911, what's your emergency?"
b) "Domino's pizza, will this be delivery or takeout?"
c) answer and wait for a human and act overwhelmingly excited to talk to the person and act ridiculously interested in whatever they have to say (like repeating their statements as an excited questions: "my name is dave" , "REALLY!?!? DAVE??!?! TOTALLY AWESOME?!?!?")
d) answer the phone as if you are on an FBI phonetap, "Yes sir, the call is on line... Trace is now active... location in a few seconds..."
e) "Lawton County Morgue, are you calling in reference to a corpse?"
f ) "The phone call you are making is illegal in the state of California and your number is being passed to the authorities" (this usually gets an immediate hang up and I don't get to hear the caller's response, sad.....)
I have tried various methods under option 2 which have left me laughing and with the person on the other end completely off track to their attempted calling purpose.
xanadu
Posts: 3,347
Comments
So the first question I have to ask is, how does (if at all) an incoming robocall differ from a non-robocall?
That's the fun part, maybe an EMIC-2 answers the phone for you
Hope this continues to be effective
Okay I am sure you know the obvious, but for the sake of discussion, I will answer your question.
A non-robocall has a human on the initiating telephonic device ready to speak when the receiving telephonic device is answered.
Robocalls are definitely a big problem as far as I am concerned, and obviously it will take an intermediate device to intercept the call before the receiving phone rings.
I do not know much about phones, but I believe the solution should be relatively simple, but it will be an unnecessary hassle for the person initiating the call. However in order to stop these unwanted calls, another procedure must be incorporated to stop this obscene behavior.
I believe the solution is as simple as adding a microcontroller which picks up the phone (off hook state) when a call is received before the receiver receives an audible indication, and then generates a random number and presents it to the caller. The caller must then enter the random number into their phone within a defined time limit. If no number is entered or an incorrect number is entered, the phone will be hung up (on hook state), but if a correct number is entered, then an audible indication will be presented to the receiver.
The benefit of this method is that each call would have to be made manually in order to bypass the random number generator and it would eliminate automatic calling methods. Of course this would not stop telemarketers, but there is other legislation for this.
I should also note that it may be a little more difficult then just random numbers, so perhaps random numbers should be present to the caller at various pitches, so as to make it very difficult for an automated machine to decipher.
Bruce
EDIT: Instead of a random number generator, start intergrating all phones with an LCD screen, which presents the caller with a cryptic passcode similar to those found on many websites. An example is shown below.
EDIT: However there should also be a contigency for a list of bypass numbers which can be entered by the receiver for calls received from family, friends, and known business associates.
Every time I call the service line for my bank account, they ask me to speak my card number. The computer always get those 16 digits of mine, and it most likely works for numerous other people as well. I don't think it would be very difficult for the computer to then put those numbers back on the line and bypass your security.
I don't know if you noticed, but right before you posted, I offered another solution that was developed to stop spam.
That is great Bruce, submit it!
-Phil
THIS ~
I mean it works for Spam here on this and other forums . why not phones ,
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Shut-Down-Rachel-from-Cardholder-Services/198117176896761
This is the one I called to complain about. Every once in a while, I will press the proper button to speak with them, and when I get a live person on the phone, I tell them:
I once had about a five minute discussion with one of these guys. It was comical to say the least. I bet I made him think at least a little about the consequences of his actions.
1. How to identify a robot call after you have answered the phone.
2. How to identify a robot call in the telephone network via the dialing behavior.
For part one, I suppose recognizing robotic speech versus natural speech might be useful.
For part two, the phone company would have to monitor the uniformity of the dialing rate and the high rate of outgoing calls.
Of course, you could do what I do. I just ask if they speak English and they hang up immediately. I know this wouldn't work in the USA - you would have to ask them if they speak Uzbeckistani or something else.
On the other hand, I was also thinking that this could be a government conspiracy to fund an illegal government project.
Sorry to here that you feel this is so dire. I guess that means that anyone calling the USA should have to prove their identity to make a connection.
A government conspiracy? For some, the government is always a conspiracy, and of course many of those are criminals. I don't see how at this point if might be considered an illegal government project. But it might be necessary to get rid of all those calling cards that everyone abuses.
These days, anyone with a real reason to call the USA from Taiwan is generally using Skype.
Automation and programability have a down side. Having call forwarding redirect to the police might seem a good idea to you, but I am sure the police would disagree.
Or maybe it's SATAN?
Yes, in fact, I would prefer that anyone calling me from anywhere should have to prove their identity, unless of course they are listed on my bypass list.
The situation is definitely dire! The same people were calling my number 2-3 times a day at one point, but now it is down to about 2-3 times a week.
I am not a big government conspiracy fan, but I do believe that government conspiracies do exist, especially pertaining to the CIA. For example, the Iran Contra Affair and the JFK assasination, just to name a few.
If only I could stop the hundreds of email that are sent me by odd sorts that believe people really want to read stuff from outta nowhere. My junk email to real message ratio is roughly 500 to 1.
Also please consider that I am not the only one receiving these phone calls, it is a nationwide problem that affects thousands and thousands of people, perhaps millions. In fact, the situation is so dire that the FTC is offering $50K for a solution, because they can't stop it! I don't know how other countries are affected by these robocalls, but in the USA, it is a common widespread nuisance and most commonly associated with fraud. In the State of Indiana, robocalls are a criminal offense, and I am sure other states have similar laws. If the FTC is involved and can't catch them on their own and seeking outside help, you can imagine it is a very BIG problem.
I made a mistake earlier, it was the Attorney Generals office that I called, not the Secretary of State. Here is a link pertaining to robocalls and the Attorney Generals office in Indiana:
Now multiply that $1 a week by the number of people with a similar pay plan =$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ X 52 weeks = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ per year.
And that is only a small fraction of the cost to consumers and legitimate communication companies, not to memtion the actual poor suckers who are scammed out of their hard earned money.
In any case, everyone I don't want to talk to starts the conversation in Chinese or Taiwanese, unless it is the dentist rescheduling my appointment. So I rather enjoy the language barrier.
But the reality is that I even get a few odd balls fishing for response on Skype. Mostly I just either ignore, delete, play dumb, or hang up. And, yes.... I pay 50% of any cell call made to me; but I never seem to be over my monthly minimum. I guess I just have too few people to talk to - aside from the Forum.
Phone companies want more traffic, why would they fix it?
1) phone rings
2) check caller ID - if I recognize caller's name or number and I want/need to talk, I answer phone, otherwise, let it go to voice mail
3) check voice mail for messages, if someone chooses not to leave a message, then they don't get to or don't want to talk to me.
Folks place too much urgency on phone calls - to the point of interrupting other phone calls or face to face communication to take a new phone call.
Now that is a good find!
A quick search however does not provide an easy answer for purchase.
Bruce
lol! - I like your 1,2,3 approach.
Also for a land line, you can monitor the voltage levels of the TecCo...
On Hook.....approximately 48V
Off Hook.....approximately 5V
Ringing..... +/- 48V
Just prior to the phone ringing the voltage will cross the zero line, which allows you to monitor and 'intercept' the phone before any of the other phones actually ring.
ignore the unknown call as 'mindrobots' mentioned (I choose this when I don't care to answer the phone)
When I am in a jovial mood, though, I answer the call with one of a few fun responses:
a) "911, what's your emergency?"
b) "Domino's pizza, will this be delivery or takeout?"
c) answer and wait for a human and act overwhelmingly excited to talk to the person and act ridiculously interested in whatever they have to say (like repeating their statements as an excited questions: "my name is dave" , "REALLY!?!? DAVE??!?! TOTALLY AWESOME?!?!?")
d) answer the phone as if you are on an FBI phonetap, "Yes sir, the call is on line... Trace is now active... location in a few seconds..."
e) "Lawton County Morgue, are you calling in reference to a corpse?"
f ) "The phone call you are making is illegal in the state of California and your number is being passed to the authorities" (this usually gets an immediate hang up and I don't get to hear the caller's response, sad.....)
I have tried various methods under option 2 which have left me laughing and with the person on the other end completely off track to their attempted calling purpose.