Propeller II for idiots

rjo__ · 2012-10-19 21:03

So... there are going to be some new instructions... do I really have to learn them?

When I pour my Spin/Pasm code into the PropII is it going to tell me to drop dead?

Rich

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2012-10-19 21:09

rjo__ wrote:

So... there are going to be some new instructions... do I really have to learn them?

Why wouldn't you want to?

-Phil

rjo__ · 2012-10-19 21:26

I have real time issues... that I didn't have when I got hooked on the Propeller. As it is, I know where to find Propeller code and what to do with it... but I'm no master.
I will eventually learn what I should already know now about the PropII ... but it is going to take me a while. In the meantime, I am thinking that it would really be dandy to have a Propeller emulator available:)
These guys have emulated everything... emulating a Propeller on a PropII should be tasty for the lucky few:)

Rich

Circuitsoft · 2012-10-19 23:03

The prop II is not going to replace the prop, so you don't have to learn it at all if you don't want to.

LoopyByteloose · 2012-10-20 01:58

Everyone is welcome to learn at their own rate.

There will be a lot of similarities and some contrasts. Get the Propeller II info from the Parallax Semiconductor site for the short story. http://www.parallaxsemiconductor.com/Products/propeller2specs

Parallax benefits from various users at different levels creating threads that review aspects of the Propeller that they don't understand. And when the Propeller II gets to market, it may be tempting to jump in and try and keep up - but there are a lot of very smart quick learners that maybe hard to keep up with.

New commands for the Propeller II are going to offer more I/O pins and both DAC and ADC on board. If you find a good reason to use the Propeller II, learn what you need at the pace that is comfortable to you. That's what I will do as I am looking forward to these new features.

On the other hand, I have read it is a 1.8v device - but somehow I/O will still be 3.3volt. I hope Parallax will provide level shifters to higher i/o voltages on at least some of the boards they build - though these won't work with ADC and DAC.

When the Propeller first came out, I thought the BasicStamp was soon to be dead - but it is as popular as ever and support is good.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2012-10-20 02:04

Loopy Byteloose wrote:

On the other hand, I have heard it is a 1.8v device ...

The core runs at 1.8V. There are separate Vdd pins for the I/O, which can range up to 3.3V, so no different from the Prop I in that regard.

-Phil

prof_braino · 2012-10-20 06:40

rjo__ wrote: »

I have real time issues...

Perhaps consider use propforth, coding time is much less due to the interactive nature of the environment.

Of course, its much more fun so you end up spending MORE time messing around, but your degree of self control is beyond the scope of the kernel.

As far as we can tell, high level propforth will be exactly the same on the prop II, only some low level support will change, and not be visible to the user.

Certain new capabilities, for example software multitasking, if implemented, would require one to read another example.

Dave Hein · 2012-10-20 07:14

rjo__ wrote: »

So... there are going to be some new instructions... do I really have to learn them?

When I pour my Spin/Pasm code into the PropII is it going to tell me to drop dead?

Prop 1 binaries will not run on a Prop 2, but you should be able to recompile your Prop 1 code so it will run on a Prop 2. I say "should be able" because I think this is the goal. However, there is no guarantee that the P2 tools will provide this. You will probably want to re-write some portion of your PASM code to take advantage of the new instructions in P2. At the very least you will want to used delayed jumps instead of the normal jumps to avoid pipeline stalls.

rjo__ · 2012-10-20 07:35

Thanks guys.

Dave... if I were Parallax, my sole focus would be on getting the PropII out, with as much info as already exists, and worry about compatibility later.

http://www.parallaxsemiconductor.com/Products/propeller2specs

Indicates that "Spin 2 is not going to be fully compatible with Spin 1." Of course it won't, I wouldn't expect to be able to take Spin2 and run it on a Spin1 machine.

But, I would expect someone to come up with an emulator that would allow me to use Spin1 code on a PropII... and hopefully show me the resulting code.
This would be a great heuristic device as well as a very practical way to use existing code. And it wouldn't necessarily have to be free:) It does seem that there is enough documentation to
do most of it already available...If I were a qualified developer, the only reason I wouldn't jump on the opportunity, is that I wouldn't want to do work that was already being done by someone else
and which would eventually be offered for free.

Prof_Braino

PropForth for idiots does not exist. I once followed the links and I ended up with a software machine that emulates analog computers... honest to God.
I am the sort of guy that couldn't get PropBasic to work on my Mac in less than an hour:)

Give me a link to a piece of PropForth that will run on both a PropI and a PropII and says... "hello idiot."

Rich

LoopyByteloose · 2012-10-20 10:06

Nothing is fully compatible with a previous generation device these days. But it is wonderful if 'legacy software' can be compiled to run on the new device while people are learning to take advantage of all the new features.

PropForth for Idiots does not exist? Thank heavens. I'd rather learn intelligently. If you are wanting to learn, Use the PropForth /doc .html AND read 'Starting Forth'.

If that is not enough, load GForth on your computer (it is free) and work through the GForth tutorial to have yet another point of view and an intro to ANSI Forth in a desktop PC context. This is what I am doing and it seems to be working.

rjo__ · 2012-10-21 07:35

Thanks for the links.

LoopyByteloose · 2012-10-21 11:33

You are welcome. I tend to occasionally visit that Parallax Semiconductor page as trying to keep up with the Propeller II thread is just not that easy. It has gotten huge. I just want the status report.

You might like to know that I am finding Forth (both Tachyon and PropForth) rather rewarding as a way to learn more of how to handle 8 cogs.

These just might be an easier softer way to ease into a transistion to the Propeller II if you feel Spin and C are not quite doing it for you.

Please don't be offended, but I just dislike the whole series of books that are titled "XYZ for Dummies" or "XYZ for Idiots". I'd just rather encourge people to believe in themselves.

Propeller II for idiots

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