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Eternal Clock Could Keep Time After Universe Dies — Parallax Forums

Eternal Clock Could Keep Time After Universe Dies

Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
edited 2012-10-01 13:47 in General Discussion
My question is "for what purpose" and who would care?


http://news.yahoo.com/eternal-clock-could-keep-time-universe-dies-163611182.html

The idea for an eternal clock that would continue to keep time even after the universe ceased to exist has intrigued physicists. However, no one has figured out how one might be built, until now.

Researchers have now proposed an experimental design for a "space-time crystal" that would be able to keep time forever. This four-dimensional crystal would be similar to conventional 3D crystals, which are structures, like snowflakes and diamonds, whose atoms are arranged in repeating patterns. Whereas a diamond has a periodic structure in three dimensions, the space-time crystal would be periodic in time as well as space.
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Comments

  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-25 13:11
    The question will be has the universe ceased to exist if there is still a working timepiece?

    Mind you it's always handy to know the time :smile:
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2012-09-25 13:37
    I'll build it for them for half of their lowest bid. And I'll double their money back if it stops after the universe dies.
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-26 08:05
    Ok but no flamethrowers erco, we just want to be able to tell the time :smile:
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2012-09-26 08:48
    Ohhh... now I'm loving the idea of a flamethrowing clock. My mind reels with possibilities. Every hour, on the hour fireballs. And perhaps on the quarter hours, the sound of Westminster chimes arcing through gigantic Tesla sparks?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbLshnfu0wY
  • jdoleckijdolecki Posts: 726
    edited 2012-09-26 10:33
    If a clock ticked in a universe that didn't exist

    Would you still here the clock tick?
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-09-26 12:04
    It makes that "spring ahead, fall behind" adage kind of silly!!
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-26 12:54
    "In space no one can hear you tick..................tock"
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2012-09-26 15:47
    On a slightly more practical level, has anyone given thought to leaving behind something that will continue to 'run' after your death?

    Many of the mountain tops around here are above the timberline, affording a great view of the sky. Many are very rarely traveled. I fully intend to leave behind several small hermetically-sealed containers that transmit (<100mW) a brief digital (CCITT v.26) message once a day or so. I fully expect a few of them to last more than 100 years.
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-26 15:52
    What a great idea! I like it
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2012-09-26 16:55
    User Name wrote: »
    On a slightly more practical level, has anyone given thought to leaving behind something that will continue to 'run' after your death?

    I just watched the Y2K version of "On the Beach", a thought-provoking and fairly depressing post-nuclear holocaust movie. One memorable scene had to do with seeking the source a mysterious radio signal that comes at the same time every day from a devastated zone, yielding hope that there are survivors.
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2012-09-26 21:29
    So, do you ever find out the true reason for the mysterious radio signal?
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-27 00:52
    User's concept is actually brilliant, imagine handing down to generations a map and receiver and a distant relative discovering the containers centuries later, what a great way to be remembered!

    You may have just invented yourself a sellable product there as well.
  • ErlendErlend Posts: 612
    edited 2012-09-27 03:49
    Yeah, this is a great product! When people want to be buried in space capsules, surely they would want to 'stay on' by beaming from a mountain top. Even I - being slightly sane - want one.

    Erlend
  • jdoleckijdolecki Posts: 726
    edited 2012-09-27 06:19
    User Name:

    Get one of them DNA storage kits to preserve yourself for future re-animation.

    Just in case they find it a 1000 years from now.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2012-09-27 06:37
    User Name wrote: »
    So, do you ever find out the true reason for the mysterious radio signal?

    Yup. Pretty clever, and it could go on as long as the sun shines and Mother Earth keeps a'spinnin!
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2012-09-27 14:49
    So are you choosing not to reveal any spoilers?
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2012-09-27 15:48
    skylight wrote: »
    You may have just invented yourself a sellable product there as well.

    Commercializing such a thing might attract unwanted attention from regulating agencies who don't want public airwaves clogged by ghostly emanations. OTOH, for a very modest fee I will include your and Erland's particulars in my broadcasts :) ...that is if you deem the Idaho Batholith a suitable repository for your respective horcruxes.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2012-09-27 16:18
    User Name wrote: »
    So are you choosing not to reveal any spoilers?

    Yup. In the end, the butler did it, but that's all I'm sayin'.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-09-27 16:22
    ....with the rope...
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2012-09-28 02:29
    There's a better chance of simply creating a clock and moving it to an alternate universe because as the Universe dies, it's likely the stage after entropy death includes a breakdown of all elementary particles into a nothingness froth, including temporal crystalline structures in which time flux will cease to exist. An alternate universe with Pulsars can provide a natural millisecond timebase, or a propeller chip using its configurable State Machine could provide a nano second timebase of 10 ns with a 6.25 crystal. Physicists have found ways to access these alternate dimensions at the elemental particle level.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-09-28 07:04
    Humanoido wrote: »
    nothingness froth

    Don't you need SOMETHING to have froth?? If not, then cappuccino just lost all meaning and that truly does mark the death of the Universe!!
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2012-09-28 08:42
    mindrobots wrote: »
    Don't you need SOMETHING to have froth?? If not, then cappuccino just lost all meaning and that truly does mark the death of the Universe!!

    By original definitions, Froth contained absolutely nothing because before the birth of the universe there was no space and no time. You are correct by the second definition of Foam, as it applies to the distribution of matter and galaxies after the birth of the Universe. It's very interesting that one modern theory of the Multiuniverse states that a kind of black hole opened up a space time leak and out-poured space and time to instantly create our Universe. So that's how nothing can exist and something can be created. You can probably get some ideas by observing Cappuccino as bubbles are pushed up through the surface layer, though it's a leap of lesser dimension, but keep in mind before the Universe was born there was no layer.... It also makes one wonder about the newly discovered "coexisting" quantum dimension and exactly what is the mechanism of opening up a portal so that larger objects may go through someday. But before doing that, we should perhaps understand the consequences of what might happen. I mean it might not be safe poking your finger into an unknown dimension and if we make the portal large enough, there's no telling what might come through to get us or upset space time with temporal shifting.
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-28 13:32
    In the kitchen
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-28 14:02
    User Name wrote: »
    Commercializing such a thing might attract unwanted attention from regulating agencies who don't want public airwaves clogged by ghostly emanations. OTOH, for a very modest fee I will include your and Erland's particulars in my broadcasts :) ...that is if you deem the Idaho Batholith a suitable repository for your respective horcruxes.
    I was thinking that the transmissions would be fairly local and weak hence the need for a map and receiver, the fun of trying to locate the capsules would give it a "National Treasure" feel and the satisfaction of finding them.
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2012-09-28 16:13
    @skylight: Great feedback. It just might be possible to do this legally.

    @jdolecki: I don't think the world could handle a second User. There will be a collective sigh of relief when I step off.
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2012-09-29 03:41
    Considering how small cameras have evolved, when the portal is made large enough to send through a camera, it will be ultimately interesting to see what's inside. You might even see another version of yourself. Presumably the camera could be retracted if it can survive the dimensional state transposition.
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-29 10:06
    Humanoido wrote: »
    Considering how small cameras have evolved, when the portal is made large enough to send through a camera, it will be ultimately interesting to see what's inside. You might even see another version of yourself. Presumably the camera could be retracted if it can survive the dimensional state transposition.
    Just wondering if the physics of another dimension may be such that there may be no interaction of light on the CCD to produce an image perhaps that interaction may produce something alternative such as water?
  • ErlendErlend Posts: 612
    edited 2012-10-01 06:11
    Please, yes, I'd like 50 49 4E 47 hex, followed by my social security number :cool:
    How would you find 100years electronics? guess you have use discrete devices with low res substrate layout? And power source? discussed this with my friend, we found that maybe Peltiere element driven by temp difference from sun/shade and day/night would do the almost-eternal-energy trick.
    E
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2012-10-01 13:32
    skylight wrote: »
    Just wondering if the physics of another dimension may be such that there may be no interaction of light on the CCD to produce an image perhaps that interaction may produce something alternative such as water?

    Perhaps an alternate world is the anti of ours...so maybe adjust the CCD to black anti light sensitivity... in my Physics experiment a number of years ago, a small machine could generate anti-light...great for astronomy to darken local surroundings.
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-10-01 13:47
    Humanoido wrote: »
    in my Physics experiment a number of years ago, a small machine could generate anti-light...great for astronomy to darken local surroundings.
    I have similar devices in each of the rooms of my house adjacent to the door :smile:
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