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A trusting parent, amazing video — Parallax Forums

A trusting parent, amazing video

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2012-09-17 11:12
    It was on the BBC South East news this evening.
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-17 11:17
    Just seen it on the meridian news, I also remember a boy falling into a gorilla cage at a zoo many years ago if I remember correctly the boy was unconcious and the mother gorilla in the cage sat beside him holding him and cradling him from any harm.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2012-09-17 11:46
    I remember the other incident, I think it was as you describe.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2012-09-17 12:02
    Do you all recall what happened to the woman who tried to help someone with their pet chimp?

    The helpful woman no longer has hands or eyes.

    "Trusting" isn't the word I'd use to describe this parent.
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2012-09-17 12:17
    I bet there are worse babysitters than that gorilla but there is no excuse for that kind of complacency.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-09-17 12:27
    Duane Degn,

    "Trusting" isn't the word I'd use to describe this parent.

    If the word you are looking for is something like "stupid" or "mad" then think again.

    That is an Aspinall Zoo park founded by John Aspinall in the early 1970's. And that is John Aspinall's family in with the gorillas. That family has pretty much lived with the animals, gorillas, tigers and others, their whole lives.

    The Aspinall foundation has, over the decades, done an amazing job of breeding endangered species in captivity, in some cases being the most successfull in the world. They all so do a huge job of reintroducing spieces to the wild.

    Now, it did happen a few years back that the county council in which those parks are wanted to insist that the tiger keepers should not go in with the tigers. Reason being that one or two of them had been killed or maimed over the years. What happened? The tiger keepers threatened that if that were to made the rule they would all quit and let the tigers die. The council backed down.

    Well, OK you might be right, the English are mad.

    Anyway, if you are ever in the south of England Aspinall's Howlestts Zoo Park is a fabulous place.

    P.S. John Aspinal made all the money to start all of this out of gambling. It's a fascinating story.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Aspinall_(zoo_owner)
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-17 14:23
    Duane Degn wrote: »
    Do you all recall what happened to the woman who tried to help someone with their pet chimp?

    The helpful woman no longer has hands or eyes.

    "Trusting" isn't the word I'd use to describe this parent.
    Agreed that there are cases of chimpanzees going crazy as they get older but apparently there has never been a reported case of a captive gorilla killing a human, that's not to say it couldn't happen but in the story above the family has grown up with the gorillas almost like they were pets.

    Maybe the species is more family orientated than the chimps are?

    I think in the end the purpose of releasing the video is to challenge our perceptions of what we term "dangerous animals"

    It was recently that youtube had the video of the two men meeting up with the lions that they had lived with in their house as cubs and how the lions greeted them was almost like hugs and kisses!
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2012-09-17 14:34
    My knowledge of primates comes from watching PBS (often re-broadcast BBC stuff).

    I remember a gorilla caretaker talking about how careful one needs to be around a gorilla not because they are mean but because they are so strong. A gorilla may intend to say "bug off" with a slap that could end up breaking bones of a human.

    I think your right about gorillas being less dangerous than chimps.

    All primates (of comparable size to humans) have much stronger jaw muscles than we do. We humans have to cook our food since we've traded bone crushing jaw muscles for larger brains.

    I used to think of primates and humans about equally matched in strength pound for pound but I have recently learned humans are very weak when compared to other primates.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-09-17 14:38
    Wild/captive/trained animals are still animals and can be spooked or other wise driven to behavior never before seen in that animal. As an adult (or a responsible youngster) you take on that ever present risk and rely on you training and experience if things go bad. It is irresponsible and reckless to put an infant in that situation. If professional trainers and handlers are injured or killed by animals they have worked with for years, there was really nothing but dumb luck protecting this baby.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-09-17 14:46
    mindrobots,
    there was really nothing but dumb luck protecting this baby

    Perhaps, however I hold the late John Aspinall and his family in the highest regard. Given what they have done "dumb" does not sound an apt description.

    Anyway, let me get this straight, the death toll of young children due to captive gorillas. nil. The death toll of young children due to automobiles, millions. Not to mention all the other hazzards, many of them human, that claim young lives. I might argue that the child was safer in the cage with the gorilla than outside.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2012-09-17 14:49
    Cute story, but ask Siegfried & Roy or Sea World about their experiences with trained animals. Everything's good until that one fate fateful day comes.

    http://www.redorbit.com/news/general/37160/tiger_attacks_las_vegas_magician_roy_horn

    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-02-24/news/27057443_1_killer-whale-naomi-rose-orca
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-09-17 14:57
    I'll retract the word "dumb" even though I was not implying the Aspinall's were dumb.

    I still stand on my position with regard to respecting and being responsible around animals - wild, trained or otherwise. They were fortunate the baby wasn't hurt. The two articles erco cited support that.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-09-17 15:21
    mindrobots,
    ...respecting and being responsible around animals...
    I could not agree more. But can we say that the Aspinalls do/did not have a respect for the power of the animals in their care?. Or that they are not being responsible? Out of context it is easy to make such a judgment.
    The two articles Erco cited support that.
    Well, if you showed me off in Las Vagas or Sea World in front of huge noisy crowds and made me jump through hoops I'd probably be pretty mad and want kill someone as well:)
    Those Gorillas were in their nice quite home just doing what they normally do.

    We don't have a big enough sample to statistically judge the safety of that situation but I'm still prepared to wager the kid was safer in there than most kids are outside in "normal" life.
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-17 15:21
    As stated an animal could become spooked by something and panic, that can be true of any animal and even humans, there are many cases of dogs attacking babies and small children mauling them or even killing them but we still keep dogs as pets.The point I think being made is that our perceptions of one species being more dangerous than another is being brought into question.
    A gorilla is very strong and indeed a slap could possibly knock a grown man clean over let alone a kid but the gorillas shown and the one I mentioned in the zoo showed a gentle side that shows intelligence of how much strength they applied as not to hurt the child as if it was their own.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-09-17 15:55
    skylight,
    ...there are many cases of dogs attacking babies and small children mauling them or even killing them but we still keep dogs as pets

    Yes, and there we come down to the issue. Pretty much everything in life can be dangerous. There is a risk of harm, injury or death in every activity. However the perceived level of risk is often wildly different from the actual statistical risk. That's before we start to think about how people trade risk for benifits. You can be killed crossing the road but you want to go to the shop. You assess the risk and benifit and make your decision to cross the road or not. Others might go base jumping just for the fun of it.

    Anecdote: I marvel that at 13 years old we were left in the metal work shop at school over lunch breaks to operate lathes and milling machines with no supervising teachers or other adults. I mean big, serious industrial strength metal working machines. Well there was a risk of bad things happening right there. However we were trusted to behave responsibly and use what we had been taught to keep safe. There is no way that would happen now a days. Far too dangerous they say. But I'm glad to have had that chance to trade my safety for the experience.
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-17 16:08
    Heater. wrote: »
    skylight,
    Anecdote: I marvel that at 13 years old we were left in the metal work shop at school over lunch breaks to operate lathes and milling machines with no supervising teachers or other adults. I mean big, serious industrial strength metal working machines. Well there was a risk of bad things happening right there. However we were trusted to behave responsibly and use what we had been taught to keep safe. There is no way that would happen now a days. Far too dangerous they say. But I'm glad to have had that chance to trade my safety for the experience.
    Same here :) we were also left with chemistry labs unsupervised with gas bunsen burners and all sorts of chemicals.
    Our school in London was one of the first to have access to University mainframes via teleprinters and I remember a bunch of us inspecting the modem underneath pulling out the cards whilst the teacher had gone for a break and panicking trying to get the cards back in the right order before he came back Oh the good old days!.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-09-17 16:32
    Oh wow, school, university mainframes, teleprinters, miles of paper tape, they were great times.
  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2012-09-18 08:17
    Duane Degn wrote: »
    Do you all recall what happened to the woman who tried to help someone with their pet chimp?

    The helpful woman no longer has hands or eyes.

    "Trusting" isn't the word I'd use to describe this parent.
    A chimp is not a gorilla. They're very different animals.
  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2012-09-18 08:29
    mindrobots wrote: »
    Wild/captive/trained animals are still animals and can be spooked or other wise driven to behavior never before seen in that animal.
    Yes. In an animal with strong motherly tendencies (such as a gorilla) that has gained such a bond with the child (as this one clearly has), the mother is likely to take the child and attempt to protect it from danger.

    Babies cry and can be fussy. That's no different between humans and other primates. Primates can be dangerous to adults because they recognize that we're mature and capable of intentionally annoying them. They recognize that children are children, and will inherently be far more gentle. If I were a parent, I would probably trust my children with gorillas as well, though I would certainly attempt to build my own relationship with them before introducing my children.
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2012-09-18 12:52
    Duane Degn wrote: »
    Do you all recall what happened to the woman who tried to help someone with their pet chimp? The helpful woman no longer has hands or eyes.
    I agree safety first. However, we've heard this same story before, but about humans! Just take a look at what some humans to do humans. You only need to read the news.. So why fault that chimp over the man that walked into Mcdonalds with the AK47? Or other human atrocities seen on CNN nearly every day.. Are humans any better?
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-18 14:08
    Is it because we are so dominant a species that we tend to forget the intelligence of other creatures and dumb them down?
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-09-18 14:18
    skylight,
    ...dominant a species...

    Where did that come from? Tell it to the viruses, bacteria, ants, cockroaches, rats, etc, not to mention a lot of vegetables we cannot keep under control etc. They would laugh.

    This is some human centric view of the world as written in the bible with no founding in reality.
    Genesis 1:28, where God grants humanity "dominion" over the Earth.
    And God blessed [ Adam and Eve ], and God said unto them, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2012-09-18 14:24
    I agree Heater, I was saying it in a tongue in cheek way of how pompous as a species we can be.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-09-18 14:27
    skylight,

    Amen.
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