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Prototype to PCB - should I? — Parallax Forums

Prototype to PCB - should I?

doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
edited 2012-09-15 13:57 in General Discussion
Perhaps the correct question is from proof of concept to prototype board. Or I am getting ahead of myself?

In my Automatic Chicken Coop project I have "prototyped" it together with the PropBOE (#32900). I really don't want to leave my PropBOE out in the chicken coop from now on so I'm thinking, if not a PCB then at least transfer to a Propeller Proto Board. The AD inputs on the PropBOE are the only unique aspects compared to the much cheaper Proto Boards (at least for what I need). Then there is Chris Savage's Dual Relay Board Kit (#27114) I am using. There may be enough real estate on a proto board for 1/2 of one of those as well.

So I'm wondering will it fit? I do have blank 3x4 proto boards (#45304) too. Hmmm.

So thinking along that line - I need to fit CdS and resistor, 1/2 Relay kit (will figure those parts shortly), and an ADC chip (plus supporting components)?

I welcome your thoughts and criticisms.

Brief video of project is here in this post on Savage Circuits.

Thanks!
Paul
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Comments

  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2012-09-12 18:40
    If you have a use for the PropBOE board and building a replacement costs less than another PropBOE why not go for it?
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2012-09-12 18:57
    Definitely wire it up on some kind of proto board setup. No way I'd use a $130 board to open and close a chicken coop door, no matter how much I liked the chickens. :)
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-09-12 19:07
    If you leave the PropBOE out there, you'll need to make it a toll door and charge the chickens as they go through.

    It does sound like a good/fun opportunity to go from your proof of concept hardware to something better tailored and less expensive than a PBOE.
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2012-09-12 19:09
    RDL2004 wrote: »
    Definitely wire it up on some kind of proto board setup. No way I'd use a $130 board to open and close a chicken coop door, no matter how much I liked the chickens. :)
    That's what I'm thinking. Was just trying to figure out how to use tables in BBCode to lay out a cost comparison. But eyeballing it there is now way it can't be way cheaper. Heck. I probably have all the parts I need to do it.


    Part (component) Cost ($)
    Proto Board25
    CdS Cell?
    Omron Relay2.99
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2012-09-12 19:15
    I can't think of what other parts I need at the moment. I'm tarred.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2012-09-12 19:31
    Great project. I gotta ask how much of the Prop is really being used there. Is there more going on than a clock and light sensor?

    Asteroid detection for Thursday? :)
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-09-12 19:38
    You mean redesign it with one if the newly arrived BS2s????
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2012-09-12 19:49
    I'd start from a bare board. Doc, surely you got a 40 pin DIP Prop chip in one of your Mystery Bags. ADC, EEPROM, crystal, some voltage regulators and half a dozen other misc. parts and your there.
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2012-09-12 20:09
    mindrobots wrote: »
    You mean redesign it with one if the newly arrived BS2s????
    erco wrote: »
    Great project. I gotta ask how much of the Prop is really being used there. Is there more going on than a clock and light sensor?

    Asteroid detection for Thursday? :)
    Actually I think you all are reading my mind. I love the Prop but it is undeniably overkill for this project (currently). I my explore implementing with a BS2. Heck the BS2 Carrier Board may be a good fit.
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2012-09-12 20:10
    RDL2004 wrote: »
    I'd start from a bare board. Doc, surely you got a 40 pin DIP Prop chip in one of your Mystery Bags. ADC, EEPROM, crystal, some voltage regulators and half a dozen other misc. parts and your there.
    I do, I do. Probably everything I need.
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2012-09-12 20:16
    Come to think of it. This project could probably be done with a BS1.
  • frank freedmanfrank freedman Posts: 1,983
    edited 2012-09-12 20:26
    doggiedoc wrote: »
    I can't think of what other parts I need at the moment. I'm tarred.
    Don' go messin' wid them chickins or coop till yor lot less tarred.......
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2012-09-12 20:29
    frank freedman wrote: »
    Don' go messin' wid them chickins or coop till yor lot less tarred.......
    They're all asleep now anyway. ;)
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2012-09-12 20:40
    Isn't a Propeller the least expensive solution regardless of what it "could be done with"? Also, you already have the code working and you said there's a lot of other stuff you'd like to add. A Propeller should make future improvements easier to add.
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2012-09-12 20:51
    RDL2004 wrote: »
    Isn't a Propeller the least expensive solution regardless of what it "could be done with"? Also, you already have the code working and you said there's a lot of other stuff you'd like to add. A Propeller should make future improvements easier to add.
    All very true. But shouldn't I appease or at least try to appease the Basic Stamp gods? :D
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2012-09-12 21:05
    @doggiedoc,

    This situation was exactly the reasoning behind my Quickstart Universal Prototyping board. You could build your circuit on something like that, then just plug it into the ready-to-go Quickstart board. Overall it's a little more expensive that having a PCB made cost-wise, but creates an inexpensive way to build a kit that doesn't stick you with bunch of custom PCBs.

    Not to be too salesy, there is also a Prototyping board from Parallax that could be used like this as well.

    Jeff
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2012-09-13 04:04
    Thanks Jeff - I just got a couple of Quickstart Proto Boards in and was looking at those as an option too. I'll check out yours as well.

    Thanks,
    Paul
  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2012-09-13 09:45
    Definitely make a custom PCB. They're so cheap. My last order (including shipping) totaled $3.90. Granted, I got 9 half-inch-square boards, but it's still really cheap. OSHPark is definitely the way to go. If you need help, send me your schematic, and I'll draw up a pcb for you.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2012-09-13 09:48
    doggiedoc wrote: »
    Come to think of it. This project could probably be done with a BS1.

    Terrific! A BS1 Kit is only $60! http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/BASICStampProgrammingKits/tabid/136/CategoryID/11/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/295/Default.aspx

    Something doesn't add up here, huh?
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2012-09-13 09:56
    If this is the last project you think you'll ever make solder it to a protoboard. If you're going to make more stuff like this in the future you may as well start making your own boards.

    For me it started with copper clad boards, laser printers, drills and etching solution. Now you kids get to use layout software and upload your design and have boards a week later, there are few reasons to not do that. Cost being one, if you can buy it cheaper then it makes sense to buy it. Sometimes you can find breakout boards for all of your components and just wire them together.

    Anyway I'm sure you already know all this my point is to say get your feet wet with custom PCB it may open up a bunch of new projects ;)
  • rwgast_logicdesignrwgast_logicdesign Posts: 1,464
    edited 2012-09-13 10:00
    its very very easy to follow the basic schematic in the prop manual. if you have everything you need i would do it that way. you can get a piece of proto board 3x5 inches at radio shack for 4 dollars that will hold the prop and relays or even the whole relay board you have soldierd on to it.

    cant beat 4 dollars..
  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2012-09-13 10:02
    Or, you can get a custom pcb with soldermask and silkscreen for $4.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2012-09-13 10:11
    doggiedoc wrote: »
    I'm tarred.

    I was tarred once, and feathered too!!!!!!!!
  • bsnutbsnut Posts: 521
    edited 2012-09-13 15:33
    Circuitsoft wrote: »
    Or, you can get a custom pcb with soldermask and silkscreen for $4.
    Look at this advantage you get the experience of designing the layout yourself and when it's finished its neat. I had PCB made for my Spinneret contest project and the way I designed it, was it could be for two projects that I am working on.
  • rwgast_logicdesignrwgast_logicdesign Posts: 1,464
    edited 2012-09-14 02:35
    well i wasnt debating wether a custom pcb is better than a protoboard. i was unawear that you could get a custom pcb in 1 of for 4 dollars big enough for the prop circuit and relays. what site is this? this project doesnt sound like he needs a 30 10 batch he only has one coop. i think a large protoboard is also good in the fact 4x5 will give his projects room to grow if he wants to take advantage of the prop a lil more.

    from his post it doesnt sound like hes layed out a lot of props. a protoboard also has the advantage of being easly fixed if mistakes are made. no waiting for another run and it can be purchased and built in a day i.e no waiting on some service to send a board from china.

    if the op has layed out plenty of boards and either needs 10 of or can find a 1 of big enough for a reasonable price then pcb all the way just make sure to break out all those extra pins for later ;)
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2012-09-14 05:43
    Here are some places to get boards made at low cost:

    OSH Park (Dorkbot)
    BatchPCB (Sparkfun)
    Seeed Studio - Fusion PCB Service
    iTead Studio PCB Prototyping service (may actually be the same people as Seeed Studio)

    I think OSH Park boards are made in USA, all the others come from China.
    The prices are very reasonable, but I think the only one that will do a single board is BatchPCB and they have a $10 setup fee.
    I'm very interested to know where to get a single board made for $4 and how big it could be.
  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2012-09-14 08:39
    My $4 order was from OSHPark.
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2012-09-14 08:46
    It's obvious someone starting out is not going to get PCBs made for $4 each unless doing some good quantity (or getting someone to convert their files and check them). I think I paid around $30 for a 3x4 single sided board with nice silk screen, etc.

    That is kind of the point though, get a couple done and eventually you will get them for $4 each.
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2012-09-14 09:55
    Circuitsoft wrote:
    My $4 order was from OSHPark.

    I guess it was a small board if the order totaled $4 total. I don't think Doc's board can be made that little.
    $5 per square inch for three copies of your design. You can order as many copies as you want, as long as they’re in multiples of three. - OSH Park/pricing

    Or did you use the medium run option and cut the boards out yourself?
  • max72max72 Posts: 1,155
    edited 2012-09-14 12:20
    Itead offers a nice service.
    You get 10 boards, and it takes some time, depending on the shipping options.
    Nonetheless their offer is hard to beat..
    Massimo
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