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Powering the quickstart — Parallax Forums

Powering the quickstart

Graham StablerGraham Stabler Posts: 2,510
edited 2012-08-03 18:39 in Propeller 1
Hi Guys,

How are people powering the Quickstart for stand alone operation? I could hack a USB connector or tack some wires on but is there another way?

Cheers,

Graham

Comments

  • cavelambcavelamb Posts: 720
    edited 2012-08-02 06:53
    QS-Bat.jpg

    <http://www.instructables.com/id/Battery-power-for-the-QuickStart-board/>

    The 40 pin expansion header has two pins just for that - pins 39 and 40 -
    the two on the far right end. The top row (closest to the edge) is pin 40, which
    is wired up as V-IN, the voltage supplied to the on-board voltage regulator.
    Pin 39 is ground. That one will be connected to the NEGATIVE side of the battery pack.

    I use an angled pin header for the connector to reduce the possibility of hooking the
    battery up backwards. That would be bad - very bad!
    1024 x 768 - 62K
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-08-02 07:06
    Just like cavelamb!

    Great Instructable, cavelamb! Very well done and well illustrated!
  • Graham StablerGraham Stabler Posts: 2,510
    edited 2012-08-02 08:20
    Cave lamb,

    Thanks for that, I feel stupid for not spotting this on the schematic, I think I had assumed it was only IO on the connector!

    Your idiot proofing is also excellent!

    Graham
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2012-08-02 09:43
    I add a couple of male headers to the holes at 39 and 40. I like to keep female connectors on my battery packs so they don't short out when they touch metal.

    There's a picture of this method in post #29 of this thread. You can avoid male battery connectors with cavelamb's method if you use long header pins to join the two female connections.
  • varnonvarnon Posts: 184
    edited 2012-08-02 09:50
    Great tutorial. I saw it last week. I really like the suggestion of bending the pin headers.

    I've been thinking about picking up some of these for a quickstart protoboard.
    http://www.adafruit.com/products/373
  • Graham StablerGraham Stabler Posts: 2,510
    edited 2012-08-02 09:53
    Duane, I think I have some 2-pin polarized headers/connectors I could use in the same location so I think I might do that.

    Graham
  • cavelambcavelamb Posts: 720
    edited 2012-08-02 10:12
    Thanks all.
    A straight pin connector would obviously work just as well - if connected correctly.
    The angled set-up takes the worry out of it. As long as the power wires come in from
    the same direction, any way. (Please don't ask how I know all that. I'd probably fib)

    Varn: I wasn't bending the pins, although you could if you were really careful to not break them.
    Just avoid trying for a sharp square bend and it should be fine.
    What that piece was about was to press the plastic bar back some to make the pins longer.

    Duane: yeah baby. I like that female/female suggestion a lot. No exposed metal on either end.
    I already have two wall warts set up for breadboarding. (one +5 3 amp regulated, one +12 2.5 amp regulated)
    so I'm ok for now. But it is a real good suggestion...

    However, I think I'll add another header to the little power like you did. That way I can still use the I/O connector
    for plug-in boards and not have to attach the battery to the plug-in.

    I'm a little henky about soldering on these little boards. Especially when getting anywhere near the SO and surface
    mount stuff. My hands aren't as steady as they used to be. But a thru-hole like that I'm sure I can do safely.
  • cavelambcavelamb Posts: 720
    edited 2012-08-02 15:33
    Duane,
    I just checked out that extra 8 pin header site.
    The bottom row is ground, but the top row is 3.3 volts - not Vin.
    That means these pins are tired to the output pin of the regulator.

    I understand that these new-fangled regulators are pretty tough critters,
    but how well would they take to a 3.3 volt input on the output pin?
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2012-08-02 15:48
    cavelamb,

    I only use those 8 holes for powering other 3.3V devices. I use positions 39 and 40 of the four holes to add my male headers for battery power.
  • varnonvarnon Posts: 184
    edited 2012-08-02 16:19
    Oh yeah, thats right. I was just remembering the picture from last week.
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,934
    edited 2012-08-03 01:19
    cavelamb: great idea, I will have to do the same thing to the end of my 4AA battery holder I sometimes use with the Quickstart.

    I think another question to be asked is: "How do you get 5 volts to your Quickstart based projects?" For my Shackable Scavenger Hunt project, I am using a 7805 in the Vin/Gnd holes (for 5v out and Gnd on the 7805) and the 7805 input goes through a panel mount switch then to a nine volt battery snap. To get 5 volts to my LCD, I have a wire soldered around the output pin of the 7805. For the next version of the Quickstart board, I would love to see the following added:
    1. 3 holes for a 7805
    2. 4 holes for input and output caps
    3. A 2 pin header for Vin and three holes for a DC Jack
    4. A double bank of holes for 5v+Gnd pairs (4 holes)
    Then you would have options for a wider input voltage range as well as 5 volt access for things like LCDs. Minimal, if any at all, cost increase on the Quickstart because you are simply adding 16 holes.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2012-08-03 01:39
    I think another question to be asked is: "How do you get 5 volts to your Quickstart based projects?"

    Most of the datasheets I've looked at for 5V devices usually have an allowable voltage range of between 4.5V and 5.5V. Four NiMH batteries stay within this range unless severely discharged. While it's not safe to assume all 5V devices can run off of four NiMH, I'm pretty sure the 5V devices I used regularly work fine with the unregulated NiMH 4-cell packs.
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2012-08-03 07:15
    You can get USB-mini power adapters for both wall power and cars, and just plug them into the programming connector. You will have to jumper pin 30 to GND (on pin 39) to pass power to the Propeller even though there is no USB master to negotiate with the FTDI chip. In practice leaving this jumper in permanently doesn't seem to affect normal comms or programming.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2012-08-03 09:58
    cavelamb wrote: »
    Duane,
    I just checked out that extra 8 pin header site.
    The bottom row is ground, but the top row is 3.3 volts - not Vin.
    That means these pins are tired to the output pin of the regulator.

    I understand that these new-fangled regulators are pretty tough critters,
    but how well would they take to a 3.3 volt input on the output pin?

    Note: If a 4.8v battery pack is connected to Vdd instead of Vin, the prop gets really HOT. Maybe don't do this. Re-adust bi-focals and re-do the connections. Not that I would know anything about this from experience...
  • cavelambcavelamb Posts: 720
    edited 2012-08-03 10:21
    Note: If a 4.8v battery pack is connected to Vdd instead of Vin, the prop gets really HOT. Maybe don't do this. Re-adust bi-focals and re-do the connections. Not that I would know anything about this from experience...

    A forward biased 1N4001 (diode) could solve that issue.
    1 volt drop from 4.8 would bring it down to 3.8 volts.

    ( I thought they were .6V forward drop but the data sheet says 1v - http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ds28002.pdf )
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2012-08-03 12:48
    cavelamb wrote: »
    A forward biased 1N4001 (diode) could solve that issue.
    1 volt drop from 4.8 would bring it down to 3.8 volts.

    ( I thought they were .6V forward drop but the data sheet says 1v - http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ds28002.pdf )

    I would take that spec with a largish grain of salt. I found it varies quite a bit with current and temperature. Best to check the voltage drop with a meter and the approximate current draw of the circuit it will used on. Might save a propeller.
  • RickInTexasRickInTexas Posts: 124
    edited 2012-08-03 14:30
    cavelamb wrote: »
    <http://www.instructables.com/id/Battery-power-for-the-QuickStart-board/>

    I use an angled pin header for the connector to reduce the possibility of hooking the
    battery up backwards. That would be bad - very bad!

    Great Instructable.

    These are awesome idiot-proof connectors:

    http://www.bgmicro.com/search.aspx?find=quick+disconnect

    I used them for an LED counter that has over $300 worth of 7-segment displays in it that is used by non-techies.
  • cavelambcavelamb Posts: 720
    edited 2012-08-03 14:37
    All I had in the bottom of the box were three 1N4003s.

    The numbers came out thusly (under load Quickstart) :

    9 volt battery
    battery 9.3v drop
    1 diode 8.73 .57
    2 diodes 8.17 .56
    3 diodes 7.56 .61

    Extrapolates to .58 volt drop per diode at 9 volts.


    Using a the 4 cell AA pack
    battery 6.0 drop
    1 diode 5.46 .54
    2 diodes 4.91 .55
    3 diodes 4.36 .55

    Call it .55 volts drop per diode at 6 volts.
    So, 6.0 - 3.3 = 2.7 volt drop needed; /.55 = 5 diodes.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-08-03 16:34
    You can also follow the instructions in this Parallax AppNote [PDF] to use a USB-type external power supply.

    -Phil
  • cavelambcavelamb Posts: 720
    edited 2012-08-03 16:42
    You can also follow the instructions in this Parallax AppNote [PDF] to use a USB-type external power supply.

    -Phil

    I dunno, Phil.
    It sounds like they are talking about BASIC stamp stuff.
    and the warning (Be sure the EXT/USB jumper is set to USB.)????

    Are we SURE this applies to a QuickStart board?
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-08-03 16:46
    Yes, it applies to the QuickStart board just as well. Just ignore the MoboStamp-specific instructions. The main thing is to configure the FT232R (same chip on QS and MoBo) so that it will power the board without having to be enumerated first.

    I just did it on one of my QS boards, and it works fine -- both with external power and powered from my PC through a powered hub. Configured this way, however, it will draw full power as soon as it's plugged in.

    -Phil
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,934
    edited 2012-08-03 17:33
    Thanks for the reminder Phil! I saw that back when I was messing with my MoBo for a project but had forgotten about it. The AppNote should be updated to include Quickstart application as well as reference FTProg which is the replacement for MPROG. Nonetheless, I will be reprogramming my Quickstarts next chance I have them handy.
  • mojorizingmojorizing Posts: 249
    edited 2012-08-03 17:37
    Cavelamb...good write-up on the QS....what camera did you use for the close ups on the solder joints, etc. amazingly clear!
  • cavelambcavelamb Posts: 720
    edited 2012-08-03 18:22
    mojorizing wrote: »
    Cavelamb...good write-up on the QS....what camera did you use for the close ups on the solder joints, etc. amazingly clear!

    Hey mojo,

    Thanks for that.

    Those were shot with a Fuji Finepix S8100 using the macro 2 setting, a tripod,
    and some extra fill lighting.

    This camera has an 18x optical zoom and really fine optics.
    I think it's a very good camera for the money.
  • cavelambcavelamb Posts: 720
    edited 2012-08-03 18:25
    Yes, it applies to the QuickStart board just as well. Just ignore the MoboStamp-specific instructions. The main thing is to configure the FT232R (same chip on QS and MoBo) so that it will power the board without having to be enumerated first.

    I just did it on one of my QS boards, and it works fine -- both with external power and powered from my PC through a powered hub. Configured this way, however, it will draw full power as soon as it's plugged in.

    -Phil

    How does that compare to grounding pin 30 - as far as power consumption?
  • cavelambcavelamb Posts: 720
    edited 2012-08-03 18:35
    cavelamb: great idea, I will have to do the same thing to the end of my 4AA battery holder I sometimes use with the Quickstart.

    I think another question to be asked is: "How do you get 5 volts to your Quickstart based projects?"

    Sorry, got distracted and forgot the question that started it all...

    4 AA cells make good 6 volts. Tap off one forward biased power diode and call it Vcc.
    Depending on what the circuit is up to you may want to add filter caps for high freq noise.
    That's about as simple as it gets.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-08-03 18:39
    Grounding pin 30 (/UEP) would also work, without having to program the FTDI chip. Power consumption would be about the same either way. Programming the FTDI chip still has the advantage of no jumpers or other hardware mods. Grounding pin 30 has the disadvantage of negating the QuickStart's soft-start circuitry, which limits inrush current during power-up. You would not want that pin grounded when plugging the QS into a PC, for example.

    -Phil
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