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SimpleIDE for Raspberry Pi Raspian

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  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2012-08-18 13:22
    Rsadeika wrote: »
    I got my RPi board on Wed, and I have been playing around with it for the last couple of days, very interesting. I am using a 2GB SD card, for the plain raspian install, it seems like it is large enough for that plain install. But to install, lets say printer access, then you have to go with a larger card. So, what would be the minimal size card that you would need to make effective use of SimpleIDE?

    Ray, I think they recommend a 4G SD card. I used an 8G SDHC card.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-08-19 01:02
    Ray,
    I am using an 8GB SD card. Choosen because I just happen to have a pile of them for another project. It is now almost half full after installing my usual collection of compilers and other Linux tools. So 4GB would be workable for me but 8GB is more comfortable.

    Yes there are Arduino and other boards for the Pi. Along with cases and all kind of other goodies. With an expected one million Raspis out there by the end of the year there is good insentive make something to tap into that market.

    The Parallax and the Propeller should also be in this picture.
  • WhiteCraneWhiteCrane Posts: 2
    edited 2012-08-22 17:56
    Is it faster to use GPIO, over the regular USB connection? The reason I ask is I am using the quickstart board with the VGA+ shield as it adds VGA,L/R audio,PS/2 connector, added SRAM slot, SD card expansion, IR reciever, Wii controller port, and a few broken out IO pins(for general purpose use, or to add in component video out if no vga is availible....or more IO expansion possibilitys). To use the GPIO from the raspi I would need to use a ribbon connector with my case so a specific raspi shield doesn't really appeal to me at the moment.

    Just wondering why everyone is going the GPIO route? Does it make it easier on the RasPi side of things? I don't really know how to make the two boards talk to each other outside of the terminal, is it similar to having two props talk....any links to some documentation is much appreciated. Do python scripts have acces to the GPIO? It seems like I could have a terminal using the vga plus board with prop handling the output. or access to a prop based ocilliscope or something.


    @Heater- this is Metatronin from the raspi forums, the one that tested your build out over there. I guess I'll come over here where you are more active.
  • WhiteCraneWhiteCrane Posts: 2
    edited 2012-08-22 18:26
    As far as VNC goes, after installing tightvncserver with an apt-get install on the raspi, I have been able to connect with both my PC(under ubuntu and windows xp) and an android tablet over wifi on the same router. Runs smooth and fast even with the full desktop. Infact I was showing off my raspi across town to a buddy without one using my android e-book reader and it was no different than being at my home(sans rPi in tow of course).
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2012-08-22 20:09
    WhiteCrane wrote: »
    Is it faster to use GPIO, over the regular USB connection?...Just wondering why everyone is going the GPIO route?
    ... or access to a prop based ocilliscope or something.

    As I understand it, GPio and a direct connection to a prop pin for bit banging can be much faster than regular serial (as in MAX232) speeds.

    The Rpi can change a pin every 25-30 ns, the prop can change a pin every 40 ns
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-08-23 03:45
    Hi WhiteCrane,

    Welcome to the Propeller world. There is an awful lot of action over here, hard to keep up sometimes:)
    Is it faster to use GPIO, over the regular USB connection?
    Probably not. When loading programs to the Propeller the speed is determined by the Prop boot loader. After that we are limited by whatever the highest speed serial driver is on the Propeller (or I guess the highest speed supported by USB-serial, no idea what these limits are just yet.
    Just wondering why everyone is going the GPIO route?
    If we are going to put a Propeller on a board that sits on top of the Pi and mates with the Raspi GPIO connector (A "plate") it means we don't need the extra cost and bulk of a USB-serial adapter.

    Using the Raspi on board UART means the two Raspi USB ports are still free for keyboard/mouse or other good things.

    One scenario is to have the Propeller "plate" provide a VGA terminal interface for the Raspi which runs a user console on that port by default. That way one could make use of all those VGA monitors lying around the place. It could also do graphics.
    I don't really know how to make the two boards talk to each other outside of the terminal, is it similar to having two props talk.
    Indeed it is, I just connect the Tx and Rx and Gnd from the Raspi GPIO header to the appropriate pins on the Propeller. Instructions for doing this are in this thread somewhere:)
    Do python scripts have acces to the GPIO?
    If you mean the GPIO bits as bits then yes. See this page http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals

    If you mean the Raspi onboard UART that comes out on the GPIO header then yes. Any language that can open/close, read/write files can access the UART through the /dev/ttyAMA0 device. Of course you may want to set baud rates etc. Have a google for "Lunux python serial port" you will find things like this [url]"http://www.varesano.net/blog/fabio/serial rs232 connections python[/url]

    Be aware that you will probably want to stop Linux using the UART as a console port. Instructions are earlier in this thread.
    It seems like I could have a terminal using the vga plus board with prop handling the output. or access to a prop based ocilliscope or something.
    Yes, exactly.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-08-23 04:17
    Braino,
    As I understand it, GPio and a direct connection to a prop pin for bit banging can be much faster than regular serial (as in MAX232) speeds.
    We are using the UART on board the Raspi ARM SOC not bitbanging the serial protocol. Raspian has a driver for it, might as well use it.

    The Rpi can change a pin every 25-30 ns, the prop can change a pin every 40 ns
    Err, well, sort of.

    If your raspi is tweaking a GPIO pin at that kind of speed it has no time to do anything else!
    If you want to allow the rest of your Linux system and application to run you would only want to do that kind of bit banging in short bursts with interrupts disabled. So transmitting regular serial bytes at that speed would be OK but you would not be streaming them continuously.

    Receiving bytes at that speed would require a high priority interrupt to detect the start bit and then reading the pin at speed with interrupts disabled.

    I really don't want to get into any of that.

    My experiments show that toggling a GPIO pin under Raspian using a high priority, so called "real-time" thread, whilst taking no more than 50% of CPU time the best it can do is about 12KHz.
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2012-08-28 17:05
    Heater,

    I tried downloading your package to my RPi, but no joy. Not sure what happened, but the archiver said the package wasn't valid. Would you recommend downloading on another machine first then copying files?

    RPi as a "workstation" is a little slow to me so far.

    Thanks,
    --Steve
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-08-28 20:02
    Does it unpack on the PC?
    I'll look into it but it will be 4 hours before I get back to my Pi box.
  • photomankcphotomankc Posts: 943
    edited 2012-08-28 20:28
    jazzed wrote: »
    RPi as a "workstation" is a little slow to me so far.

    You're being kind! So far the only IDE that I can tolerate working in for native applications in geany. It's at least responsive enough to not feel like I'm typing commands to the Mars rover. Code::Blocks was torture. I did get SimpleIDE working and compiling code though. Have not hooked up a Prop to the Pi yet to see if I can program it from there. I think geany represents a nice goal for SimpleIDE. Enough nice features to help out with borwsing and organizing without the bulk of the bigger IDEs.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-08-28 20:52
    Jazzed,
    Any idea how I can get SimpleIDE to build against QT 5 libs?

    Yesterday I installed qt 5 libs and they are sitting somewhere in /opt. But how to get qmake to use them?
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2012-08-28 21:45
    Heater. wrote: »
    Jazzed,
    Any idea how I can get SimpleIDE to build against QT 5 libs?

    Yesterday I installed qt 5 libs and they are sitting somewhere in /opt. But how to get qmake to use them?

    I'm guessing that you only need the libraries in your path. I'm not sure.

    I was able to build Qt5 from source on Linux, but didn't get much further. Qt5 has potential for fixing some issues I've hit. There is no MinGW beta version for Qt5 yet, so I thought I would wait for that. MSVC version will not build SimpleIDE today - MSVC has special needs. The Qt team is targeting MinGW 4.5 as a supported platform. ARM and MIPS are targeted too - we'll see what happens there.

    RE Geany. I like the program a lot and have used it with Propeller-GCC. I recommend it here for people that don't mind manual configurations. The Menu -> Build -> Set Build Commands dialog is very flexible. The propeller-gcc bin folder must be in the user's PATH in Windows - don't just use a full file name. Would like to see a Geany plug in if it's possible.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-08-28 21:59
    Normally when you have multiple qt versions they sit in their own directory tree and include a bin directory with qmake etc. So using a different qmake gets you a different build.

    But the nightly QT5 for Raspian I installed from their deb package does not have a bin directory or qmake etc.

    I don't know if I can get the qt4 qmake to pick up these new libs or if it will work with them. Does the QTDIR environment variable have something to do with this?
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2012-08-29 04:07
    Jazzed,

    I did not actually in stall the package again to my Raspi but downloaded 0-8-4 from the link in the first post to Raspi and checked it there.
    $ wget http://dl.dropbox.com/u/81267937/SimpleIDE-0-8-4.armv6l.raspberrypi-linux.tar.bz2
    ....
    $md5sum SimpleIDE-0-8-4.armv6l.raspberrypi-linux.tar.bz2
    f4b3c10c5eeb5d0903bba9d95ffabf63  SimpleIDE-0-8-4.armv6l.raspberrypi-linux.tar.bz2
    $ bunzip2 SimpleIDE-0-8-4.armv6l.raspberrypi-linux.tar.bz2
    $ tar -tvf SimpleIDE-0-8-4.armv6l.raspberrypi-linux.tar
    ....a load of files listed
    

    All the above went well. Do you have a correct md5sum as shown?
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2012-08-30 11:00
    Hi Heater.

    Sorry for the delay responding. Everything worked fine using wget.

    I've started SimpleIDE, but haven't tried programming a propeller on the RPi yet.
    There are some challenges in the the RPi hardware setup here in my office.
    I'll try to get something going by this evening.

    Thanks,
    --Steve

    Heater. wrote: »
    Jazzed,

    I did not actually in stall the package again to my Raspi but downloaded 0-8-4 from the link in the first post to Raspi and checked it there.
    $ wget http://dl.dropbox.com/u/81267937/SimpleIDE-0-8-4.armv6l.raspberrypi-linux.tar.bz2
    ....
    $md5sum SimpleIDE-0-8-4.armv6l.raspberrypi-linux.tar.bz2
    f4b3c10c5eeb5d0903bba9d95ffabf63  SimpleIDE-0-8-4.armv6l.raspberrypi-linux.tar.bz2
    $ bunzip2 SimpleIDE-0-8-4.armv6l.raspberrypi-linux.tar.bz2
    $ tar -tvf SimpleIDE-0-8-4.armv6l.raspberrypi-linux.tar
    ....a load of files listed
    

    All the above went well. Do you have a correct md5sum as shown?
  • dgatelydgately Posts: 1,630
    edited 2012-09-21 14:49
    jazzed wrote: »
    Ray, I think they recommend a 4G SD card. I used an 8G SDHC card.

    Just a general update, based on using SimpleIDE with RaspberryPi...

    The most recent Firmware available for the wheezy Debian release, allows overclocking of the RaspberryPi. I found that the firmware update speed-up makes Propeller software development on the RPi quite usable. You may reach 1GHz, if your RaspberryPi setup can stay cool enough (85C and under) and has a capable power supply (1A) :smile:

    And, using the berryboot operating system installer (get it from: http://www.berryterminal.com/doku.php/berryboot) allows using a USB disk drive for all of your data. This should allow you to have a huge working space for all of your projects!

    Here's how you can build a decent development system for the prop on your RaspberryPi:

    1. Download berryboot from http://www.berryterminal.com/doku.php/berryboot
    • follow the directions to copy berryboot files onto a FAT formatted SD card
    • boot the RaspberryPi with the SD card
    • follow the instructions from the berry terminal website to format a USB destination drive
    • berryboot should provide an option to install the latest wheezy Debian build
    Note: you'll still boot from the SD card, but all of your data will be on the "large" USB drive icon6.png

    2. The latest Debian build (wheezy), installed from berryboot should contain a new raspi-config executable that allows overclocking as an option. If your raspi-config does not contain the option:
    • run "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" to update your firmware to the new turbo kernel version
    • see http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2008 for a description of turbo mode and URLs that may help in getting your development system set up!!!
    dgately
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2012-09-21 20:55
    Thanks for the update!
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2014-01-15 13:07
    FYI, This version worked fine :)

    I just got it working (today is the first time I've been working in my lab since Dec.26 due to coming down with a nasty flu on boxing day)

    - Download&Run works
    - Burn to EEPROM works, but does not reset the prop

    The only feature of my first Prop board for the Pi that is not tested yet is the on-board ADC :-) :-) :-)

    I expect to have production boards in about two weeks.

    I'll start working on the web page and announcements for my new board, and will start posting it as soon as I get the ADC running.

    p.s.

    David Betz also made a version of propeller load for me back in September, but I could not find it when I looked for it today.
    Heater. wrote: »
    Once again I have to ask for some kind soul out there to test some changes to the Simple IDE Propeller loader for Raspberry Pi UART0. I just don'y have my Props and Pis in the same place and little time to hitch them up.

    Actually this is a big change in the GPIO handling. I have changed it from using memory mapped GPIO registers to using the access to GPIO provided by the Linux /sys/class/gpio virtual files. This is a lot slower than hitting the registers directly as you have to read and write file handles to access the GPIO.

    The problem that I was worried about is that this propeller-load decides to use the GPIO when the on board UART device is selected (/dev/ttyAMA0) BUT what happens if someone manages to compile and run this on a system with a ttyAMA0 device that is not a Rasberry Pi and does not have those GPIOs? Then we are memory mapping some random memory space into user memory and trampling on it as root!!!

    Having to go through /sys/class/gpio at least ensures that this will all fail if there is no GPIO.

    Anyway pleas try attached loader, just copying it over the previous one with the suid permissions set should work.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2014-01-15 13:11
    FYI, This version worked fine :)

    I just got it working (today is the first time I've been working in my lab since Dec.26 due to coming down with a nasty flu on boxing day)

    - Download&Run works
    - Burn to EEPROM works, but does not reset the prop

    The only feature of my first Prop board for the Pi that is not tested yet is the on-board ADC :-) :-) :-)

    I expect to have production boards in about two weeks.

    I'll start working on the web page and announcements for my new board, and will start posting it as soon as I get the ADC running.

    p.s.

    David Betz also made a version of propeller load for me back in September, but I could not find it when I looked for it today.
    Heater built all of propgcc for the RaspberryPi which includes a modified version of propeller-load.

    Would you please post a description of your Pi board?
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2014-01-15 13:39
    I plan to post details tonight; I am trying to beat a magazine new product announcement deadline first (~4pm today)

    Prop, EEPROM, ADC, 3v3 vreg, 24 prop io to 3x 10pin headers etc, 8ch 10/12bit ADC, no need for PropPlug as Pi programs it

    Works well with SimpleIDE (both PropGCC and OpenSpin)

    can also be used as a stand-alone Pi form factor Prop board :)

    Currently through-hole, I'll make an SMT version if I get enough orders.

    Right now, only the ADC is not tested, trying to get that done today.
    David Betz wrote: »
    Heater built all of propgcc for the RaspberryPi which includes a modified version of propeller-load.

    Would you please post a description of your Pi board?
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2014-01-15 20:35
    I plan to post details tonight; I am trying to beat a magazine new product announcement deadline first (~4pm today)

    Prop, EEPROM, ADC, 3v3 vreg, 24 prop io to 3x 10pin headers etc, 8ch 10/12bit ADC, no need for PropPlug as Pi programs it

    Works well with SimpleIDE (both PropGCC and OpenSpin)

    can also be used as a stand-alone Pi form factor Prop board :)

    Currently through-hole, I'll make an SMT version if I get enough orders.

    Right now, only the ADC is not tested, trying to get that done today.
    Thanks Bill. Sounds nice!
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-01-16 00:38
    Bill,

    This is great stuff.

    How are you programming the Prop from the Pi? Are you using the UART on the GPIO header? If so are you using that build of SimpleIDE that I made ages ago or did you adapt your own loader?

    I ask because the build I made with the working GPO loader interface is very old now. The later build of SimpleIDE for raspi that I posted did not have GPIO UART loader capability. Before Christmas I started again with the most recent loader code in propgcc, it's not quite finished yet.

    Do you need that? Perhaps I should post it up to github or somewhere and try to find time to finish it.
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2014-01-16 09:00
    Thanks David!

    Specifications, web page, and photos coming as soon as they get done - I ended up testing the ADC yesterday ... it works!

    I ordered a production run last night, I should have production boards available before the end of January.
    David Betz wrote: »
    Thanks Bill. Sounds nice!
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2014-01-16 09:11
    Thanks David!

    Specifications, web page, and photos coming as soon as they get done - I ended up testing the ADC yesterday ... it works!

    I ordered a production run last night, I should have production boards available before the end of January.

    Congratulations! This is very exciting, Bill.....and a long time coming. I enjoyed your recent magazine article very much!

    Open up pre-orders and you might sell your first batch before it even arrives! :smile:
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2014-01-16 09:12
    Heater. wrote: »
    Bill,

    This is great stuff.

    Thanks Heater!

    I admit I was grinning like the proverbial cat that swallowed the canary the first time it worked.

    I've been adding a Prop programming port to my upcoming Pi PCB's (where it made sense) as I plan on more Pi-Prop boards ... I think the Prop makes an excellent hard real time I/O processor for the Pi, and the Pi makes an excellent inexpensive development tool for the Propeller. Win-Win. Even my EZasPi prototyping board can act like a PropPlug!
    Heater. wrote: »
    How are you programming the Prop from the Pi? Are you using the UART on the GPIO header? If so are you using that build of SimpleIDE that I made ages ago or did you adapt your own loader?

    I am programming with the UART on the GPIO header, with #17 being the reset signal.

    I used the loader from message #84 in this thread., and SimpleIDE 0.8.4 from

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/81267937/SimpleIDE-0-8-4.armv6l.raspberrypi-linux.tar.bz2

    The only snag I had was that I forgot to disable the serial Pi console on the SD card I was using (it is disabled on my other Pi setup).
    Heater. wrote: »
    I ask because the build I made with the working GPO loader interface is very old now. The later build of SimpleIDE for raspi that I posted did not have GPIO UART loader capability. Before Christmas I started again with the most recent loader code in propgcc, it's not quite finished yet.

    Do you need that? Perhaps I should post it up to github or somewhere and try to find time to finish it.

    It would be great if you could package the latest SimpleIDE with the loader from message#84, or post the source for the loader in #84.

    Does the latest SimpleIDE reset the prop after burning the EEPROM?

    I'll be posting details of my board as soon as they are done (I think tonight); today I am working on the product info.
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2014-01-16 09:22
    mindrobots wrote: »
    Congratulations! This is very exciting, Bill.....and a long time coming. I enjoyed your recent magazine article very much!

    Thanks Rick!

    I enjoyed writing that article, and I was thrilled to get the cover.

    I got my first Pi's about a year ago, and have been playing with them since. I'd intended to make Prop based Pi add-ons from the beginning.

    I received the first prototypes of my first Pi prototyping board early September, second prototype run in October, and first production run in November. Unfortunately there was a (factory) error with the first production run, so I did not get final production boards of EZasPi and EZasPi (B) with some other new products until early December, when I also received this Prop/Pi prototype.
    mindrobots wrote: »
    Open up pre-orders and you might sell your first batch before it even arrives! :smile:

    I will open up pre-orders in about a week, but first I have to figure out the BOM costs, and figure out what I need to charge.

    Currently, I intend to sell two configurations:

    "essentials" = PCB, Pi stacking header, 6.25MHz xtal as many people on the forums are likely to have Prop's, eeproms etc

    "full kit" = all the parts needed to fully populate the board

    Watch the P1 forum for the "official" announcement :)
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-01-17 03:12
    Bill,
    I think the Prop makes an excellent hard real time I/O processor for the Pi, and the Pi makes an excellent inexpensive development tool for the Propeller.
    Yep. Even just as a simple GPIO expander for the Pi it's a winner. That's before we start thinking about providing a Pi with tens of PWM servo outputs
    or the billion other things it can do. I have suggested many times that Parallax develop as a Propeller board for the Pi, which would make it sort of standard", but so far that has fallen on deaf ears. Seems that Parallax would rather invest in rich kids with iPads. So there is your chance:)

    Hmmm..thinks...a demo of a Raspi driving tens of RC servos might catch a lot of attention in the Pi world.

    OK, so you are using an old version of SimpleIDE for the Pi. We have to fix that, many things have changed since then.

    Hopefully I can find some time this weekend to build a new propgcc and SimpleIDE perhaps with the RPi loader.

    I'll post the RPi loader to github as it is. I have no idea if this new version works as I have not had a Prop and a Pi in the same place for ages.

    Not sure about the reset thing. In theory reset should be issued on the GPIO pin every time the loader says so. I have to check that.
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2014-01-17 08:23
    Heater,

    I have two more Pi-Prop designs in the works :)

    I think Parallax is trying to stick to a small "core" of dev boards for the chips, and leaving the rest to third parties. Note the huge reduction of SKU's over the last year.

    Servo demo... good idea, thanks. Adafruit did one for their 16 servo board, no reason I can't do that for my board :)

    I think the latest SimpleIDE should compile fine on the Pi, it was the loader that was the issue when I played with this in September. Github for the loader would be great!

    I'm still working on the marketing material for my new board, I will post it as soon as it is in good enough shape (definitely by Monday, hopefully tonight).

    I took the photos yesterday, just need to select shots and gimp them today for the news release, then I can start on the web page...
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2014-01-17 12:26
    Bill,

    Have you considered submitting an article (product release) to MagPi, the RasPi magazine or submitting a "Blog" type entry to the RaspberryPi organizations website? They often have Ardiuno interfaces articles and your product is a least EIGHT times better with a Propeller!! :smile: Once you have the RasPi interface/glue software worked out, these avenues could generate a lot of interest for your product and the Propeller!
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2014-01-17 13:23
    Hi Rick,

    Thanks :)

    I've been in touch with MagPi and the Pi Foundation for a while now.

    I'm working on the product pages, but I thought y'all might appreciate seeing a Robot Sandwich...

    Robot_Sandwich_0844_web.JPG


    Click on the thumbnail for a larger image...
    mindrobots wrote: »
    Bill,

    Have you considered submitting an article (product release) to MagPi, the RasPi magazine or submitting a "Blog" type entry to the RaspberryPi organizations website? They often have Ardiuno interfaces articles and your product is a least EIGHT times better with a Propeller!! :smile: Once you have the RasPi interface/glue software worked out, these avenues could generate a lot of interest for your product and the Propeller!
    800 x 698 - 220K
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