Program My New Helicopter to Fly

lukkas · 2012-06-30 12:42

First All Hello,

I am waiting to take a new project to expand my knowledge I have a new helicopter that I have been flying, and now I want to program it to fly by itself... So first off, there is a ton of microprocessors and boards and i do not know which one to start with... I am going to add video, gps, weather sensors, will need another gyro, also WiFi more than likely and maybe one or two things.... but I do not know which board to choose because of weight and inputs any info will be greatly appreciated .... Just FYI I am well versed in computer programming just wanted to test skills to see if I can make it work

Thanks

Duane Degn · 2012-06-30 14:29

My suggestion would be to use a Propeller.

A QuickStart board is a good place to begin. Gadget Gangter gives you an extra proto board to use with the QS.

What kind of helicopter do you have? What radio system are you using with it?

lukkas · 2012-06-30 14:33

It's a Matrix 250R carbon blades don't know brand name but it's 2.4 GhZ

Publison · 2012-06-30 14:38

Welcome to the forums!

A lot of people on the same bandwagon. See what has been done in these recent threads. Although these threads are geared towards quad copters, some of the flight controls would lend it to a one rotor system.

Another very good source of information is:

http://diydrones.com/

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?133372-Ken-Cluso99-W9GFO-JasonD-s-QuadCopter-Build-Log-(updated-info-ELEV-8-availability)&highlight=Quad+copter

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?136370-ELEV-8-Quadcopter-ordering-design-files-assembly-and-flight!&highlight=Quad+copter

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?136787-QuadX-my-latest-Propeller-with-Propellers&highlight=Propeller+propellers

And Parallax has a nice base unit to start with as a quadcopter:

http://www.parallax.com/Store/Robots/FlyingPlatforms/tabid/964/ProductID/799/List/0/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName

Jim

lukkas · 2012-06-30 14:41

Thank you I will check these out can I repost here if I have questions or should I repost in there posts?

Duane Degn · 2012-06-30 15:13

While I think the links Jim provided should be very useful, there actually a big difference in the stability between a helicopter and a quadcopter.

Quadcopters are generally more stable than helicopter.

I found this link for a Matrix 250R.

http://www.bananahobby.com/2231.html

The flybarless technology looks very interesting. If this is the same helicopter, then it comes with a triple axis gyro. I'm not sure if you'll be able to tap into the gyros signal easily or not.

Unless this helicopter is much more stable than most helicopters in its class, it going to be very difficult to get this to fly autonomously.

Go ahead and continue to ask questions in this thread if your questions are about this same project. It would help if you provide links to any items you have questions about.

This subject comes up every so often here but I don't know of any successful autonomous RC helicopter projects on these forums. (One reason may be that they are against the law.)

lukkas · 2012-06-30 15:22

You are correct the triple axis gyro is there already but I was thinking add another one if I couldn't get into that one

And are Autonomous helicopter really illegal

The stability is very impressive I have flown it since Christmas last year and it flies good

My timeframe is 1 year

W9GFO · 2012-06-30 20:15

Keep in mind that the payload capability of that helicopter is going to be pretty small.

I have to disagree about quadcopters being more stable than helicopters. My ELEV-8 is equal in stability to my T-Rex 450s but less stable than my 650, JR Voyager or my gasser.

If the quadcopter is self-leveling then it should be more stable than most helicopters but many quads do not have this feature.

When I put together a quad using the HoverFly Pro board, then that one should prove to be more stable than all the others.

mindrobots · 2012-06-30 20:47

These guys have set the bar pretty high.

http://heli.stanford.edu

xanadu · 2012-06-30 21:00

UAV/UAS are illegal for commercial purposes in any airspace, but are okay for hobby use as long as it has a ground spotter in communication with the pilot at all times, and does not violate local zoning. Do not buzz houses or people you will be fine.

Flybarless helicopters have the best stabilization. Your 250 is too small to do any UAV maneuvers, maybe 2-3 minutes flight time if you lose half your list of sensors and navigation requirements.

If you're going to use a small heli you might have to get creative. It will be semi-autonomous at best.

[video=youtube_share;UkEwtDJfPwk]

Duane Degn · 2012-07-01 08:27

W9GFO wrote: »

I have to disagree about quadcopters being more stable than helicopters.

I haven't flown a quadcopter (yet). I had read here on the forum that quadcopters were easier to automate than helicopters.

I agree that in general larger helicopters are more stable than small helicopters (but the large ones rip themselves apart more in a crash).

I haven't ever flown a flybarless heli so I don't know how they compare with the coaxil helicopters, but the couple of coaxil helis I've flown have been surprisingly stable.

I'd think a coaxil would be a good candidate for automation, they're just kind of boring to fly for the fun of it.

Rick, I hadn't seen those Stanford helis. Thanks for the link.

LoopyByteloose · 2012-07-01 08:35

Conventional helicopters have auto-gyration if all power fails, but a quadcopter is likely to fall like a rock.

I've seen some quadcopters actually put weight above the axis of the propellers. The lower the center of gravity, the easier it would be to program. The closer the center of gravity to the axis of the propellers, the more likely it is to capsize.

lukkas · 2012-07-01 09:01

I think I am going to stick to the 250 heli now but would might buy a 450 to see if I could get more fly time with electronics

But the first question anybody know where some sample code would be I would like to know if I am on the right track

Thanks

LoopyByteloose · 2012-07-01 10:10

Even though the quads might need a ballistic deployed parachute to not fall out of the sky, I suspect they are a lot easier to grasp and maybe more fun to program.

I've seen video of one flying sideways through a narrow slot in an autonomous mode. They do indeed seemed to be better adapted to the very tiny.

Helicopters seem to have to have gyros to offset the never-ending desire to spin. The tail rotor is a very demanding piece of equipment.

Bits · 2012-07-01 14:26

I have the ability to make very state of the art light boards even pretty small with the propeller. If you could list the things you would like to see on a PCB I may design it for you and others.

W9GFO · 2012-07-01 14:26

Loopy Byteloose wrote: »

I've seen some quadcopters actually put weight above the axis of the propellers. The lower the center of gravity, the easier it would be to program. The closer the center of gravity to the axis of the propellers, the more likely it is to capsize.

I'm not convinced this is true. At first glance it seems like it should work that way but I don't think it does. An example is the Hiller flying platform. The CG was well above the rotors and the vehicle was stable to a fault.

A CG in line with the propellers works well because you want the vehicle to change its attitude about it's center. If the CG was well away from the center then response to changes would be all wonky.

An ELEV-8 is neutrally stable. Meaning it will stay in whatever orientation (not position) you command it. It will not seek level. A capsize will only occur if you tell it to, or if something fails.

Franklin · 2012-07-01 20:44

But the first question anybody know where some sample code would be I would like to know if I am on the right track

I'm not sure you are ready for code before you pick your sensors and figure out how you plan to control the copter. Code is toward the end of the process and you have not yet told us what parts you plan to use.

lukkas · 2012-07-02 18:20

Franklin wrote: »

I'm not sure you are ready for code before you pick your sensors and figure out how you plan to control the copter. Code is toward the end of the process and you have not yet told us what parts you plan to use.

I guess that is the most important thing... That's I guess too what I am confused about I want to know what the best way is to go about it... I have researched many different type of solutions but can not determine the best way to go ...maybe some advice on where to start with sensors and boards

Thabks

Franklin · 2012-07-02 20:36

can not determine the best way to go ...maybe some advice on where to start with sensors and boards

Start with what you have, a copter. How is it controlled now and what inputs does it need to fly itself? I'd start with a gyro and accelerometer to get it stable and make it hover then add something else to make it location aware but do it one step at a time and don't rush.

lukkas · 2012-07-02 20:39

Thanks I will figure that out thanks guys for the input so far

Duane Degn · 2012-07-02 20:46

By tapping into the signal lines before and after the 3-axis gyro it should be possible to calculate the rotation of each axis. I don't think this would be easy, and it might be easier to use a separate set of gyros.

lukkas · 2012-07-02 21:40

Duane Degn wrote: »

By tapping into the signal lines before and after the 3-axis gyro it should be possible to calculate the rotation of each axis. I don't think this would be easy, and it might be easier to use a separate set of gyros.

So not use the gyros that are there now at all put new ones on

Duane Degn · 2012-07-03 07:21

I think a lot of what you'll need to learn can be learned from making a two wheeled balancing bot.

You'll need to mesh accelerometer and gyro data for both a balancing robot and an autonomous helicopter. With a balancing robot you can learn to do this with one axis and then apply what you learned to the three axes of a helicopter.

Hanno's dance bot is a good example of a balancing robot that uses accelerometers and a gyro.

lukkas · 2012-07-04 11:36

So if I ask what is the best board with all the inputs I will need to start with and the sensors gyro and accelerometers please thanks

Duane Degn · 2012-07-04 12:31

lukkas wrote: »

So if I ask what is the best board with all the inputs I will need to start with and the sensors gyro and accelerometers please thanks

Here are a few quick picks.

It's hard to beat the Propeller Proto Board for building this type of project. It might be a bit large for you purposes, but if you decide you don't need all the room, you can cut the board to a smaller size (if you're careful where you cut).

The link I gave is for 5 boards. You can also buy PPB one at a time. If you don't use the USB version of the PPB, you'll need a Prop Plug.

You'll probably want a 3-axis gyro and a 3-axis accelerometer. I'd think the ones Parallax carries would do the job just fine, but there are also lots of choices at SparkFun. I think SparkFun has some buying guide to help a person select the correct sensor for their needs.

Learning to get the Propeller to interact with these sensors would be a good start towards your goal.

Program My New Helicopter to Fly

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