$49.00 pc.
Oldbitcollector (Jeff)
Posts: 8,091
http://apc.io/product/
Another nail in the coffin of the PC industry.
Edit: mods please kill this thread.. I didn't see the other one already in progress on this..
OBC
Another nail in the coffin of the PC industry.
Edit: mods please kill this thread.. I didn't see the other one already in progress on this..
OBC
Comments
I put my name down for one when it becomes available. Now I have to wait for that as well as a Raspberry Pi and Prop II....
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?140252-VIA-Hops-on-the-Low-Cost-PC-Bandwagon-with-a-49-APC-Android-System
None of these devices would kill off the PC for me. All the software that I need/use runs on a DOS/Windows platform.
I see lots of uses for a new small platform like this but not as a replacement for my PC or laptop.
Not sure I follow. VIA has long sold inexpensive reduced form-factor boards (mini-ITX, for example), which are used in all sorts of devices, including desktop PCs, car computers, set top boxes, embedded, whatever. Some of their most popular Windows-capable mini-ITX boards start at just slightly higher than this. This board is geared to running Android, and is smaller without the usual PC-based expansion slots that most OEMs don't use anyway. Otherwise, it's evolutionary, not revolutionary.
When they say the PC "needs a fundamental redesign," they're really saying they want to move away from Windows, PCI slots, and standard DIMM headers for memory. Funny that they show Jobs and Gates sitting together -- the two had a strong dislike for one another. (I notice Jobs gets the Eames chair; Gates got the foot rest!)
It'll definitely put a dent in the slice for the Raspberry Pi. I think there are more developers wanting to work in Android than Linux (though it's probably possible to get the Pi to run Android, though I haven't been following its development to know). I don't see this board as really affecting the PC industry, which is based on some hardcore speed and expandability options this board cannot deliver.
-- Gordon
Doesn't matter. It's the APIs they're coding to that developers care about. You know, the stuff that makes Android matter. (Otherwise they'd just use Linux.)
-- Gordon
This board is another step in the right direction toward making computer available for every person on the planet.
(and of course, the picture with the banana was cool too!)
OBC
Why does everyone on the planet need a computer?
C.W.
The traditional PC is a huge, mostly empty, ugly box that makes a lot of noise and sucks a lot of power. The majority of people don't need or want that in their home. Hence the huge rise in laptop/netbook/tablet uptake.
In the industrial space no one wants a PC either although they like MSDOS and Windows hence the range of little x86 boards/boxes from VIA and co and the industrial PC boxes to put them in.
In the server space no one wants a PC, they want serve blades and such.
That leaves an ever diminishing "hard core" user base for those old PC boxes.
As the world moves to Linux, Android, cloud apps, whatever, the demand for Windows compatible anything will subside, the PC will be gone.
As it stands the Pi and the APC are in different spaces. The APC has Android which is not self hosting and requires a PC to develop for. That is not meeting the goals of the Pi which is to put programming capability into your hands as cheaply and easily as possible.
What everyone on the planet needs is a home, a job, and some good friends.
I'm 11 years old, my folks don't have a job, we live in a tin shack in shanty town, there's hardly enough to eat. Whilst you are busy trying to fix all that could I just ask for access to one of the most fascinating toys ever invented, like you and your kids have, a computer. Then I might be able to think my way out of here. Or at least have some fun with it.
Best thing to offer is education: reading, writing and arithmetic. With that hopefully people can bootstrap themselves into a home and a job. Perhaps exposure to computers can help with all those things.
These $49 Androids are geared toward 'cloud computing'.
As far as toys are concerned... we had lots of good toys before the computer. It seems that most have disappeared because of computer games. A soccer ball would likely be much appreciated. Does one need a computer to draw? Books don't require batteries. Good math is not learned with complete dependency on a calculator.
By the way, I've been to quite a few places in Asia and computers are already everywhere. But it is really the cellular telephones that are pulling people out of poverty. Computer cafes have take over for what once was the role of pool halls. People hide away and kill time.
Also, I have several young students and specifically avoid computer games as they really don't seem to learn to socialize. So we play cards, dominoes, scrabble, Monopoly, chess, checkers -- anything but computer games. With these they interact and learn more English.
When a computer is introduced into a lesson, they immediately try to seek out the games and ignore the lesson. Any computer I use in an educational setting MUST first be stripped of games or the lesson tends to fall apart - even electronic dictionaries.
And since Chinese is the first language of my students, handwritten text is critically important in developing the ability to recognize one's mistakes as one writes. Old fashioned workbooks allow for more learning and the use of both hand and eye reinforce learning.
I'd have to say Myanmar was the most impoverished place that I've visited. The kids on the street were hustling for small change, or selling cigarettes and Viagra. I'm not sure how a computer would fit into all that.
I don't disagree with any of that.
It's a huge world and we all live within a wide spectrum of wealth. For sure there have been charitable organizations giving out soccer balls to sport hungry kids why not cheap computers for the few percent latent geeks out there? Or even here for that matter.
Because of information like this: http://www.khanacademy.org/, http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm, http://www.instructables.com
I use Google Translator regularly between Chinese and English, and I don't think we are ready to depend on it for seamless translation for kids.
Nonetheless, this is indeed yet another nice, inexpensive computer board. What education needs globally is still more good teachers. I've done DIY calculus and it was quite slow.
Written language translation will be seamless in both Internet and mobile devices within five years,
Spoken language translation within ten.
You and I will get to see this become a non issue which works as well as you've seen in science fiction in our lifetimes.
(This, and a buck will get you a cup of coffee.)
OBC
One thing these little boards will not handle as well as a desktop PC is video editing, which more and more people do. On the flip side sites like youtube allow editing off your PC. Then of course you have the gamers. Speaking of gamers you mentioned who should have a computer.
Who needs a computer;
21 year old living at home with no job that needs to look online for job.
Who doesn't need a computer;
21 year old living at home with no job that plays online games all day.
I plan to post an update to my PDPC and the PDPC x2 concept soon because even though I am young I am like the old designers at heart I just want that chance to tinker with parts I can handle and cope with to program and build from the ground up, but it seems the PC industry is flexing to muscle us out of truly open hardware not for the sake of safety but rather to prevent a risk that a new unknown person may revolutionize the industry like Wozniak did and turn them on their ear like he and the other kit computer makers in the 70s did to IBM and Xerox
Many years ago when I was a young kid (and teenager) we grew up on Legos, electronic hobby kits, encyclopedias, board games, pencil and paper. That's all we got. Rest of it, we use the imagination.
Even when computers were around my household, it didn't stop me from being "homebrew" and "classic". Probably because it's hard to focus on stuff on a computer due to my short-attention span, so I preferred doing stuff with my hands and legs.
I do not use the computer to learn a language. The writing part, I still use my hand and not a tablet. Once, I learned Russian from my neighbour (he studied in Moscow back then). So he taught me a few alphabets. I grabbed a pencil and used paper to doodle with the Russian letters. It's a fun exercise, and as a result, I remembered almost all of them.
Perfect computer for my wife!
Well, I grew up dirt poor in a small town in the middle of nowhere. Getting a computer meant a lot, and Heater has it spot on. "Think your way out of the place", which is exactly what a lot of my peers did too. Not everybody will go that route, but the subtle bit here is that it needs to be there, if they want to, which is why the efforts are centered where they are. A few of us scrounged the place doing all manner of fun stuff, learning lots too.
The other comment I would make here is that efforts to improve the state of things are not mutually exclusive. The more the merrier. That job and good friends might be seriously enabled with a computer, or maybe has nothing to do with it. One never knows, which is why the more the merrier.
I like the idea of an Android PC. The environment is lean and clean, and it doesn't have to be associated with a phone. I may well get one for general information use myself. I know Mrs would use it in a second. She likes lean, she doesn't like having to know much about the machine either.
The computer cannot do everything and generally one must pay to hook up to the Internet.
Like the computer, education is often touted as a solution to all the world's woes, but these days we have some of richest college dropouts in the history of the world, while teachers and medical professionals feel they are no longer able to do their jobs well and have a decent life.
There is a lot of intelligence, and wisdom, here in the Parallax forums. I just think we must use it appropriately to solve world problems rather than be 'one trick ponies' that resolve everything with a microprocessor.
For instance, I cannot see why people have not built microcontrolled robots where the wheels are driven by a clock spring. The wind up clock spring is a powerful store of mechanical energy and offers a very good environmental solution. Instead we keep hoping better battery technology will solve everything. The simple fact that laptop computers are 50% as efficient as desktop computers just because they waste a lot of energy in charge and discharge is enough to argue against all sort of battery powered technologies.
And finally, one really must have the right approach to introduce anything to youth or they will easily balk. When one thinks computer programming is right for an 11 year old, one presumes that the kid can type, has the ability to comprehend large amounts of abstraction, and can read at a level that most adult native English speakers cannot.
I do admit that in some cases, these devices make great parent/child shared projects - but merely a fraction of the population of kids in the world really have parents that provide such a wonderful relations. Most parents toss the kid in school and demand that the teachers sort out what is best.
If anyone wants to be part of the solution rather than ignore the problem, they can do things like offer to help the Boy Scouts by certifying a merit badge in Electronics or some other knowledge base. I believe that it still takes 21 merit badges to become an Eagle scout. Anything similar in terms of mentoring youth would be much appreciated.
But the bottom line is that helping youth and making a better world take a serious commitment to doing a lot of things on a day to day basic.
I just get the same kind of annoyed feeling that I had when I saw math textbooks asking, "How much are 3 Big Macs if one costs on $2.25?"
Now there is a challenge!
My immediate question is how would one (efficiently) regulate the output of energy from the spring? Lets say you just wanted a simple car like vehicle with steering and speed control.
An initial thought is a clock like escape mechanism but is that efficient and robust?
The truth is that robotics has never gotten away from mechanics - so why not really exploit some of the classical innovations of mechanics?
Admittedly there are challenges about interfacing a microcontroller - but the challenges are where all the fun begins. I suspect some sort of electro-mechanical control will have to be created. Start by salvaging a relay coil or something.
In any case, only a fraction of kids can become engineers, the rest will be doctors, lawyers, fry cooks, and garbage men; the point is to get initial exposure at an early age so they can make a good choice... We can't fix everybody's family, but we can make tools available to folks that want to try them.
Tried this with the Robotics Merit Badge, like everyone else with regard to engineering education for kids, the BSA is struggling with stating clearly what they want and how to get it. This attempt did not have a strong result, and at this time does not present an appealing cost benefit. We need more examples of how to do it right before the BSA effort is first choice.
The folk on this forum are good at "solving things with a micro controller". We MUST concentrate on this, since this is our strength. Leave other methods to folks that are good at those methods.
In the third world, education has the biggest cost benefit to improving the world. In the first world, exploring radical alternatives provides the biggest cost benefits, but at greatest risk. The vast majority of college drop-outs do NOT become rich.
Hey! You got me babbling! What were we talking about again?
Oh yeah, $49 PC's are cool! I'm going to wait till the equivalent of service pack 3 comes out, and get it on ebay for half price, like I always do.
Here's the thing, if you want to teach programming there are already a multitude of low cost options. Adding another board that is semi closed to the mix with zero educational software, manuals won't help teachers at all. They'll just end up being put in the closet.
If I were to teach 11-13 year olds, I'd use Stamps and Arduinos or even a old PC DOS box with Turbo C and Pascal.
In terms of practicality, I'd go with the VIA or BeagleBone or even a Mbed board. At least I can order them(latter two) and not have to be jerked around like the Raspberry people are.
There is a lot I like about this and if I could install generic Linux in lieu of Android, it would be as good or better than the BeagleBoard.
But the awkward truth is I need another computer as much as I need to own a half dozen bicycles. If it had a case and a good power supply included, it might actually replace something that I would retire. But adding a monitor and a USB hard disk increases both the clutter and the cost.
There might be a microATX or miniITX case for this. Here is a box that can attach to the backside of the monitor ===> http://resources.mini-box.com/online/M350/index.html