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Expanding braking system - Any DIY ideas? — Parallax Forums

Expanding braking system - Any DIY ideas?

powellitepowellite Posts: 3
edited 2012-05-24 12:58 in General Discussion
Hello;

I have an approximate 3 inch diameter steel pipe (HQ size) in a vertical position. In the center of the pipe is a 1/8 inch steel cable. The vertical depth of the pipe is 500 feet. It's a historic / old drill hole that I need to acquire data from.

At this point, I'm just requesting some random "how-to" concepts. I' want to build a small sled / dolly that I want to run vertically down X feet using the 1/8 inch stationary steel cable as a "trolly line". I'd prefer an automated system so I had planned on using a Parallax microprocessor to control the on-board systems (whatever they might be - maybe up / down / gather info commands). And, most probably an Xbee to "talk" to a possible surface controller that would pass commands to the dolly. I'd probably include a gyro unit because the acquired data might be useful.

Once the dolly travels via rollers / wheels (??) to a certain predetermined depth - say 287 feet, I want it to stop (or I tell it to stop), then anchor / hold itself in place while I initialize a cutting tool to score the outer surface and gather information for me. What would be useful to hold itself in place? Small braking shoes like those in a car, expandable rubber tube / tire that perhaps was controlled by a small CO2 supply? Other ideas??

At this point I'm just searching for ideas. Everything is mostly conceptual at this point. Maybe someone has built or seen a horizontal unit that can complete similar data gathering tasks?

Thank you.

Dan (powellite)

Comments

  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2012-05-23 17:54
    Electromagnet wouldn't require any moving parts if you have the juice to do it.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2012-05-23 20:48
    What exactly are you trying to accomplish? How you hold your probe in the hole will depend a lot on what sort of forces are at work when "scoring" your pipe, etc. Is the hole full of water or is it dry? What kind of measurements are you trying to take? Is your metal cable secured at the bottom or is it just dangling in the hole? Is there any reason why you couldn't lower your probe independently of that wire cable?

    You might look into how oil well "loggers" do their business. Generally, they lower a probe down a borehole with an armored cable that supplies power and reads signals. They lower the probe to the bottom of the hole with its metal fingers retracted, then open up the fingers so the probe is held somewhat steady in the hole via friction. Then they start winching up the cable and keep track of the depth via how much cable they have paid out/winched up.

    In any case, you'll probably want your retractable mooring system to "fail safe" by retracting automatically via a spring or something when it is powered down, otherwise a power or control failure could leave the device stuck in the hole forever.
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2012-05-23 20:51
    I would mount two ( or more) servos so that the arms swing against the sides of the pipe. On the end of each arm is a rubber pad, and the servo pushes this against the side. Combined, these could hold it in place.

    It really depends on how much mechanical skills you have, and what sort of machine shop tools you can use.

    Try looking here for inspiration: http://servocity.com/
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2012-05-23 20:56
    I don't think an Xbee would be a good idea. You'd probably suffer all kinds of self-interference with the radio signals banging around inside a pipe, not to mention most holes that deep are NOT straight lines. It's probably best to use a cable for your signals.
  • FranklinFranklin Posts: 4,747
    edited 2012-05-23 21:01
    To lower and retreive the device I would just use a rope or cable and the rest as you stated it. That way if something fails you can still recover the device.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2012-05-23 21:44
    Just a thought: imagine a ~2 foot length of ~2 inch PVC or steel pipe that you can pressurize with air (but be careful not to pressurize the PVC pipe too much lest it explode). This pipe will serve as a pressure tank that you lower with your probe. A solenoid valve controls pressure toward one or more pneumatic pistons that can actuate a tri-arrangement of extendable friction pads that can bite into the wall of your borehole. When actuated, the solenoid feeds pressure to these pneumatic pistons and the pistons push the extendable friction pads outward. When deactivated (or when losing power), the solenoid bleeds air out of the pistons and the pistons retract thanks to a spring force you have applied somewhere in your system of extendable friction pads. Or you could have a second solenoid valve that will bleed off the pressure from your air tank (when unpowered) and this would also serve as a fail-safe feature in the event of a power failure - this would allow the extendable friction pads to pull away from your borehole in the event of a total screw up.


    (Valve 1, Normally Open solenoid valve)
    (Air Tank)
    (Valve 2, Normally Open solenoid valve)----(Piston+Spring system)---(Pad touching borehole)

    Both Valve 1 and Valve 2 need power to remain closed. To actuate your Piston+Spring system, you de-power Valve 2 and allow pressure into the piston. When you want the piston to retract, you then de-power Valve 1 and let all the pressure out, so the piston retracts under the force of its spring. If your system loses all power, then both valve 1 and valve 2 will open up and your piston will be driven back by the force of the spring.

    By using more valves and whatnot, you can make it more complicated so you can get multiple extensions on a single tank of air, but that's probably the simplest system that will fail safe, sorta.

    The whole thing gets lowered and raised via a cable+rope that powers the probe and provides you with whatever data you're trying to retrieve.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2012-05-23 22:43
    Two arms like SRLM suggested, or linear actuators like those that open/close cd/dvd drawers, with magnets that will clamp on the pipe.
  • Capt. QuirkCapt. Quirk Posts: 872
    edited 2012-05-23 22:56
    2 small legs 120' apart, directly opposite your cutting device that pushes your "logging device" into the side of
    the pipe. The legs need to be positioned to spread open from the bottom so that they tighten against
    the pipe wall with gravity, and then releases when pulled upwards. I think it would help to have a heavy
    fishing weight tethered with a piece of piano wire about 3 feet below your "logging device" to aid the expansion
    of the legs against the pipe. Or weighted on the bottom of the "logging device."

    The legs can be set to spring open after a micro releases them. The legs would remain deployed, and harmlessly
    drag along side of the pipe for the assent.
  • powellitepowellite Posts: 3
    edited 2012-05-24 09:49
    Thanks to everyone.!! You have all given me some ideas to mull over.

    To answer a few of the questions in the above discussion. I'm trying to come up with a better mousetrap - one more exact in term of down-hole measurements and data gathering at very specific depths.

    It is a diamond drill pipe. HQ size - 96mm od / 63.5mm id. The conditions in the hole may be wet (damp) or dry. I like the electromagnet idea and the pressurized air controller system. Both are worth thinking more about. I can most certainly attach an electrical cable to the trolly to get power to a set of electromagnets which would hold the unit at the depth I select. Yes, the XBee is a bad idea due to potential interference but I can add another hard-line cable to the trolly to talk directly to the micro controller.

    Thanks to everyone again.

    Dan (powellite)
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2012-05-24 11:07
    Dan

    You may be able to get some ideas from a rope grab, which can be found here: http://www.millerfallprotection.com/fall-protection-products/connecting-devices/rope-grabs-and-vertical-lifelines.

    Or, perhaps two small pieces of plate aluminum, with three wheels in between them, two idlers on one side of the rope, and a drive wheel on the other. Of course the drive wheel would be used for braking. Additionally, either the drive wheel or the idler wheels could be spring loaded, just in case the ride becomes a bit bumpy.

    Bruce
  • Capt. QuirkCapt. Quirk Posts: 872
    edited 2012-05-24 11:42
    A Google Patent search for old patents is a good place to start. If you
    use "Filing date: oldest," there are many practical examples.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2012-05-24 12:58
    powellite wrote: »
    ...

    It is a diamond drill pipe. HQ size - 96mm od / 63.5mm id. ...

    That's a nice chunk of steel. Are you intending on measuring the drill pipe itself or the rock formation behind it? Mind if I ask what measurements you're taking? Did this drill pipe get stuck in the hole or what?
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