Looking for Prop stamp board, no pins
GordonMcComb
Posts: 3,366
For a project that I can't be too specific about at the moment, I am looking for a Propeller board like the SpinStamp, but with through-holes instead of the soldered-in pins. Non-Parallax products are fine, but they have to be:
a) In *commercial* production, now and for the near future (minimum 6-9 months)
b) In inventory of at least a hundred units, with reasonable lead times (<30 days) for new inventory as needed
c) Fully featured, with its own regulation, EEPROM, crystal, etc., just like the SpinStamp
d) Orderable by consumers in quantities starting at 1, from the Web with online payment tools (PayPal, credit cards, Google Checkout, etc)
e) Available in quantity starting in early September
f) Shipping from North America; sorry no Chinese eBay - most people just won't go that route
The board should have a similar price point to the SpinStamp if USB is off board, and no more than $35-40 if USB is on board. If using off-board USB for programming it has to be compatible with the PropPlug.
Small size and profile is a must. Except for USB connector, if any, it needs to be the same form factor (size, height) as the SpinStamp -- minus the pins, of course.
Let me know of any contenders you think fit the bill. If I can use a Prop then I won't have to go with an Arduino Pro Mini. (I'm not against the Arduino, but I'd like to get a little more editorial play going to the Propeller.) The closer the price is to the Pro Mini, plus maybe $5 or so premium for it being a Propeller, the better.
-- Gordon
a) In *commercial* production, now and for the near future (minimum 6-9 months)
b) In inventory of at least a hundred units, with reasonable lead times (<30 days) for new inventory as needed
c) Fully featured, with its own regulation, EEPROM, crystal, etc., just like the SpinStamp
d) Orderable by consumers in quantities starting at 1, from the Web with online payment tools (PayPal, credit cards, Google Checkout, etc)
e) Available in quantity starting in early September
f) Shipping from North America; sorry no Chinese eBay - most people just won't go that route
The board should have a similar price point to the SpinStamp if USB is off board, and no more than $35-40 if USB is on board. If using off-board USB for programming it has to be compatible with the PropPlug.
Small size and profile is a must. Except for USB connector, if any, it needs to be the same form factor (size, height) as the SpinStamp -- minus the pins, of course.
Let me know of any contenders you think fit the bill. If I can use a Prop then I won't have to go with an Arduino Pro Mini. (I'm not against the Arduino, but I'd like to get a little more editorial play going to the Propeller.) The closer the price is to the Pro Mini, plus maybe $5 or so premium for it being a Propeller, the better.
-- Gordon
Comments
If you place an initial order of a 100's I could see doing a small production run to your specifications.
Is using a 3rd party free virtual com port OK? as implementing HID to Prop tool is probably not in the near future.
About the Prop Lilly:
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?138457-PropLilly-worlds-smallest-Demoboard&p=1080134
It actually doesn't need to be the same size as the SpinStamp. Smaller is okay, but not larger. Sorry that's wasn't clear.
Sales are through customers going to your site, so you would be selling one at a time -- possibly hundreds, possibly none. But let's hope it isn't "none"!
-- Gordon
My CpuBlade is on a 1"sq pcb and has 36 I/O pins or holes around the edge of the pcb.
The 4 RHS/down pins are in PropPlug format (gnd/res/si/so)
On the LHS/down are 2 power pins (5V/gnd).
All other I/O pins are the prop pins P0..P29 (P30&31 are at the end for the propplug).
Eeprom is 64KB normally, xtal is pluggable and can be 10MHz if you prefer (I usually ship with 5 or 6 or 6.5MHz)
The 3V3 regulator can only take 6V MAX regulated input (5V preferred)
Also optional onboard is the transistor reset circuit which permits using a cheaper non-propplug USB-TTL.
I am in Australia, so I post unregistered but it takes about 10-14 days to the USA.
They are in production, but I haven't produced these in 100's (easily doable as that was my professional job)
I do them for the love of it here on the forum, so I assemble/price them to suit.
To do it commercially like this I would need to increase the price (currently US$17.50 +$4.00post)
Here is a link http://clusos.com/home/1994.html
and http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?134134-Cluso-s-new-Propeller-stackable-and-pluggable-boards-(MultiProps-too)&highlight=stackable+blades
Attachment not found.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJv5J-tOfNU
Andrew sells with machine pins or sockets, so it's pretty flexible.
Jazzed's board is a bit closer in size, but from the trailing posts in the thread the cost seems to be nearly 2X the target price.
-- Gordon
Hi Gordon,
Unfortunately I don't think anyone here has a board that meets all of your specs, especially in your desired 0.70"x1.30" form factor.
Perhaps you could get Parallax to make a run of 100-200 SpinStamps without the pins being installed?
Do they need analog inputs? The Atmega168 provides them, otherwise using sigma/delta ADC would use up to 12 propeller pins for six analog inputs.
(Sapieha wanted me to tell you about an upcoming board, but unfortunately it does not fit your size/budget constraints.)
Best Regards,
Bill
p.s.
Many here on the forums could make such a board, but all would face the following issues:
1) development costs (prototyping etc)
2) cost of parts / inventory costs
a) Atmega168 qty.100 price is approx. $1.50 * 100
b) Prop + eeprom qty.100 price is approx. $7.19 + $0.81 = $8.00 * 100
3) assembly costs
4) not knowing how long it will take the initial run of 100 units to sell
I know that you are aware of all of the above (which I am sure is why you asked if anyone had a board already done that was close to what you need) - but the buyers of the device may not be, and are likely to complain about SpinStamp level pricing.
Yes, I realize any Prop board would be more expensive, but I was hoping it could be held to about the same $30 pricepoint of the Spin Stamp. I also know that's a price based on Parallax's costs, who after all make the Prop. It may not be a doable price for a third party.
The Arduino Pro Mini uses the '328, and do remember it has to be pre-flashed with a bootloader, so that adds a bit of cost to it. Still, it's all-around cheaper. No escaping that.
I'm hoping I can do this project with a Prop. It's a natural for it, but I have to demonstrate it'll work in the same container, and will be reasonably priced. We'll see.
-- Gordon
scince this will prob. be a trial and error setup on the headers, until you make the right rig for mass-production.... dont wait till last minute....
cheers...
I'm kinda surprised there isn't more in Propland, with all the emphasis on doing Propeller-versions of the Uno. The small-format Arduino boards have a big following, too. So are versions of the boards without headers. Just about all the form factors are available that way.
-- Gordon
I would have offered up the PropKey, but I'm not producing it yet. My prototype run came back late so I didn't have time to put in an order for a medium run.
I'm considering taking the design to a production house now, but I don't have the bucks to pony up for 100 finished pieces. I was planning on producing them at home, but I am hesitant to do so because I don't want to commit to something I can't keep up with.
FWIW, the PropKey is a 32 pin DIP formfactor with a USB plug on one end of the board and an SD socket on the bottom. It's about the size of a 40 pin DIP with a USB connector sticking out the end.
All in all, I think it would be better to offer a simple design based around a plugin module like the SpinStamp, rather than bodge together a board, you can unplug the stamp and use it in some other project very easily.
Pins assume you're plugging into a circuit board, solderless breadboard or a soldered board. But what if there is no circuit board, either because of artistic design, limited space, or both? What if the pins connect directly into to other boards with very short wires or double-length pins? What if space is REALLY tight and you want to connect parts like LEDs and resistors directly to the Prop? What if ...
Well, I could go on. But the idea here is that one person's simple design is another person's not applicable design -- that's what happens with pre-conceived notions. What I need to do will NOT work with a Spin Stamp or any board that has pins. It has to be as absolutely flat as possible, and squishing down the pins will just look amateurish. I don't want people asking, "Why didn't you just use an Arduino Pro Mini? It's cheaper and doesn't have the pins!" I'm trying to buck the trend of every article being about the Arduino, don't you see.
-- Gordon
Pcb size of 0.7x1.3" or smaller
Is reset switch required ?
Is input power of 5V regulated (6V max) ok?
Anything else besides xtal, eeprom, prop, 3v3 reg ?
Is 32KB eeprom ok?
Does it need to be 32KB???
Should the pinout placement be identical? (Prop exceptions of course)
Can they be shipped from Australia by unregistered airmail (10-14 days to US)?
Can it be a 'kit' board that uses PTH components? It would be relatively easy to make a PTH board with DIP components, etc, but your space constraints are rather small.
People tend to forget that the Arduino is an 8bit, so the required package/die space is lessened, not to mention I/O. A PTH DIP Propeller board would be easy to assemble, perhaps giving a sense of achievement completing that step as well.
The PropKey isn't a low height design at present, since it is double sided and has a rather tall uSD socket on it. If you skip the uSD socket, it could be shorter, especially with an SMD reset button.
Anyway, I'm open to suggestions from forum members on which outfits are good for assembly/board production. Advanced Circuits/4PCB sent me an email the other day about that, so I was inclined to get in contact with them, although the are rather pricey for just PCBs.
There are several Forum members who've done, or were going to do, SpinStamp-like boards, but I couldn't get anyone to appreciate the need for solder pads for wires (oh, and a couple of #2 or #4 holes for mounting with) instead of stuffing pins in them.
[I have to partly except MacTuxLin, but his board used the QFN instead of the LQFP, and I don't know if he ever produced complete product with it.]
How about cutting the center of the Parallax demo board. Maybe Parallax will sell the demo board with only the center parts populated.
Not cost effective but a nice small size for embedded application were no PC connection is required.
rich
I made this board quite a while back but since it is in a 40-pin format it is probably too big. This board put the Propeller in a BS2p40 footprint and has an onboard MAX3232 so it can use the same serial connection that a Stamp would for Programming. It has small pads at each I/O pin that can accomodate a small resistor, cap, or solder bridge depending upon how you want it configured. Made a few prototypes but there didn't seem to be enough interest to justify making a run of boards.
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?92127-NEW-40-pin-Propeller-prototype-module-Most-hackable-yet
Robert
Hello PJ,
Yeap. I did produced a couple of this board & they are also populated. Prop1ModRev2Ext. I have about >30pcs left on-hand. I did brought some over to Parallax Expo 2012...