Doesn't a "duino" main board need a minimum feature set to be "compatible" with those thousands of shields? Several features seem to be missing on this one.
Nick, On the Uno they're now using a separate 3.3V regulator, as that voltage is no longer coming from the USB UART chip as it did in previous boards. But they still rate it conservatively at only 50 mA, with the needed overhead to keep the USB circuitry going (not just for download, but Serial Monitor debugging). A Prop with all cogs running takes maybe 25-50mA, and that's with the pins driving only logic loads (no LEDs, little speakers, GPSs, SD cards, whatever you'd like to run on 3.3V).
Keep in mind many of the clones may use something different for the USB-serial chip, but the reference design still only "mandates" 50mA for the 3.3 supply. So figure that as your baseline.
I like the board pretty much the way it is, given the suggestions I've already had the gall to make! I would like to see the pads for the voltage regulators (and caps) so that it could be stand-alone, if that's what a user wants. Saves having to construct a separate power supply circuit. We need something cheap and versatile and relatively small. With the Arduino footprint it's pretty easy to add features by stacking more shields.
So, you could sell the bare board, board with typical minimal parts, and a full board with all parts: regulators, caps, audio and video connectors, Prop, sockets. Choice of pin headers could determine if this is the base board, or a shield.
As a further reference, I see this as a Propeller version of the SparkFun Pro (which, not coincidentally, can also function as a co-processor shield):
This is actually a little smaller than the Arduino Uno, and it has the regulator on board. Price is $20 (assembled, of course). It's an either/or deal voltage wise, which can stymie some users. If you get the 5V version it runs at 16 MHz; the 3.3V version runs at 8 MHz.
Obviously the Arduino Pro doesn't do video worth mentioning, and its built-in audio capability is limited. Connectors for these things can raise the price. That's okay, as long as they're optional.
Sounds like the design is pretty fluid at this point. Guess we will have to wait and see what it will end up being.
What Gordon describes would be an interesting. Something that could be used as a shield or as a stand-alone project board would be nice. The challenge would be keeping it thru-hole, in the Arduino footprint, and include the features mentioned so far.
@Jazzed - this is an Arduino shield - just something that drops on top of an arduino.
If this is solely meant as a shield for audio/video projects, then I'm thinking not complicating it is the thing to do. I *would* suggest having the pads and caps for the 3.3V regulator, but other than that, it's looking pretty good.
And then maybe somewhere down the road you might consider a multi-purpose Prop-based main board along similar lines. Like how the Arduino Pro is a different board (and different market) than the Arduino Uno, I don't see such a board competing with Martin's ASC. Yours wouldn't concern itself with providing analog-to-digital pins, for example, or have its own USB.
People have been able to make a "Propeller Gameduino" for years, and for less than the Arduino+Gameduino pair.
Maybe but what the Prop community came up wasn't useable for the Arduino community and still is not. This is what makes Gameduino useful(and can be used with any other micro with a SPI port like the ARM chips, which means a larger market) and you don't need to know Spin or PASM to use it.
That said, I don't see the attraction of a generic Prop board in a shield format for Arduino users unless you make it easy to interface via C. Even then makes me wonder if there is a market for it after seeing the Chameleon flop.
That said, I don't see the attraction of a generic Prop board in a shield format for Arduino users unless you make it easy to interface via C.
One word: plugin EEPROM. (Okay, that's two words!)
Or maybe I'm the only one who sees the potential of a generic processor or co-processor that comes with, or has available, convenient and cheap pre-programmed modules for those who don't want to upload programs to the thing. Or the cottage industry this creates for anyone who wants to program a unique "personality" for the board. In co-processor mode it goes without saying that you interface to it via Arduino code. As a generic setup, you could use SPI, I2C, or serial. However, these require adherence to specific pins on the Arduino (well, not the serial if you use SoftwareSerial).
But anyway, I don't want to muddle things up too much, as I'm sure Nick and Jeff have given it a lot of thought. If "DigiStorm" is for a specific use case like Gameduino that's fine. There were aspects of the design that I felt made it a good contender for other roles as well.
I'm guessing if I want to have the kind of board I envision, I need to design and built it myself. Now where did I put that copy of Eagle...
I can see your points, in fact I'm working on a SPI slave interface from the Arduino to Propeller with a 256 byte buffer. Also I feel where possible C should replace Spin and possiblt PASM. Now all PASM can't be eliminated so that may be a deterrent. Realize though the core community in any micro-controller community will push their chip to the limit and will also look under the hood of any peripheral added. It may just be a handful doing it. For example the Gameduino is programmable if you have the tools and knowledge to program FPGAs If it wasn't for these type of people in our community some drivers such as the eithernet or usb wouldn't have been made
I was wondering what the progress on the Propeller Shield is. I have been able to set up a simple TV terminal program using a Arduino Pro Mini as a Serial Master and the Propeller as serial slave. Right now I'm using SoftSerial on the Arduino pins 2, 3 and pins 5,6 for serial on the Propeller. When I was using pins 30, 31 on the Propeller the Propeller Tool couldn't find the Propeller. This issue probably can be fixed with some coding trickery but for now I'm keeping the serial ports of the Arduino and Propeller free for programming and debugging purposes.
Perhaps VGA could be added via a header. I have a cable in my bag that is a 12 pin ribbon cable connector to VGA plug. It came from a video card that allowed a VGA connection to be added.
Comments
Keep in mind many of the clones may use something different for the USB-serial chip, but the reference design still only "mandates" 50mA for the 3.3 supply. So figure that as your baseline.
I like the board pretty much the way it is, given the suggestions I've already had the gall to make! I would like to see the pads for the voltage regulators (and caps) so that it could be stand-alone, if that's what a user wants. Saves having to construct a separate power supply circuit. We need something cheap and versatile and relatively small. With the Arduino footprint it's pretty easy to add features by stacking more shields.
So, you could sell the bare board, board with typical minimal parts, and a full board with all parts: regulators, caps, audio and video connectors, Prop, sockets. Choice of pin headers could determine if this is the base board, or a shield.
As a further reference, I see this as a Propeller version of the SparkFun Pro (which, not coincidentally, can also function as a co-processor shield):
http://arduino.cc/it/Main/ArduinoBoardPro
This is actually a little smaller than the Arduino Uno, and it has the regulator on board. Price is $20 (assembled, of course). It's an either/or deal voltage wise, which can stymie some users. If you get the 5V version it runs at 16 MHz; the 3.3V version runs at 8 MHz.
Obviously the Arduino Pro doesn't do video worth mentioning, and its built-in audio capability is limited. Connectors for these things can raise the price. That's okay, as long as they're optional.
-- Gordon
What Gordon describes would be an interesting. Something that could be used as a shield or as a stand-alone project board would be nice. The challenge would be keeping it thru-hole, in the Arduino footprint, and include the features mentioned so far.
@Gordon - Good point on the reference specs.
If this is solely meant as a shield for audio/video projects, then I'm thinking not complicating it is the thing to do. I *would* suggest having the pads and caps for the 3.3V regulator, but other than that, it's looking pretty good.
And then maybe somewhere down the road you might consider a multi-purpose Prop-based main board along similar lines. Like how the Arduino Pro is a different board (and different market) than the Arduino Uno, I don't see such a board competing with Martin's ASC. Yours wouldn't concern itself with providing analog-to-digital pins, for example, or have its own USB.
-- Gordon
People have been able to make a "Propeller Gameduino" for years, and for less than the Arduino+Gameduino pair.
Maybe but what the Prop community came up wasn't useable for the Arduino community and still is not. This is what makes Gameduino useful(and can be used with any other micro with a SPI port like the ARM chips, which means a larger market) and you don't need to know Spin or PASM to use it.
That said, I don't see the attraction of a generic Prop board in a shield format for Arduino users unless you make it easy to interface via C. Even then makes me wonder if there is a market for it after seeing the Chameleon flop.
Okies
One word: plugin EEPROM. (Okay, that's two words!)
Or maybe I'm the only one who sees the potential of a generic processor or co-processor that comes with, or has available, convenient and cheap pre-programmed modules for those who don't want to upload programs to the thing. Or the cottage industry this creates for anyone who wants to program a unique "personality" for the board. In co-processor mode it goes without saying that you interface to it via Arduino code. As a generic setup, you could use SPI, I2C, or serial. However, these require adherence to specific pins on the Arduino (well, not the serial if you use SoftwareSerial).
But anyway, I don't want to muddle things up too much, as I'm sure Nick and Jeff have given it a lot of thought. If "DigiStorm" is for a specific use case like Gameduino that's fine. There were aspects of the design that I felt made it a good contender for other roles as well.
I'm guessing if I want to have the kind of board I envision, I need to design and built it myself. Now where did I put that copy of Eagle...
-- Gordon
I can see your points, in fact I'm working on a SPI slave interface from the Arduino to Propeller with a 256 byte buffer. Also I feel where possible C should replace Spin and possiblt PASM. Now all PASM can't be eliminated so that may be a deterrent. Realize though the core community in any micro-controller community will push their chip to the limit and will also look under the hood of any peripheral added. It may just be a handful doing it. For example the Gameduino is programmable if you have the tools and knowledge to program FPGAs If it wasn't for these type of people in our community some drivers such as the eithernet or usb wouldn't have been made
--tom