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PropBOE USB Connection Not Working — Parallax Forums

PropBOE USB Connection Not Working

John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
edited 2012-06-27 15:25 in Propeller 1
In my 4-H Robotics sessions, we are having problems with the recently released PropBOE boards and getting connected via the USB port. When the board is connected (regardless of power source or power switch setting), Windows (XP Pro) will fail to install the hardware drivers. This is not the Prop Tool software not seeing the Prop, but the FTDI Drivers are not getting "connected".

These are older computers, with USB1 connections. The same computers will connect just fine with Quick Start boards, as well as one of the initial runs of the PropBOE board that I picked up at a Prop Educators class (This was a limited run of about 50 boards, and there were issues with the power switch and they still had the WiFi connection...)

I've tried un-installing the FTDI Drivers, installing both current (from Parallax), as well as the Beta Drivers from FTDI.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Comments

  • UnsoundcodeUnsoundcode Posts: 1,532
    edited 2012-05-02 05:08
    Hi John, this sounds very similar to the problem described in this thread

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?139525-FTDI-Driver-problems-with-Windows-7-64-bit


    The fault there was also with the PropBOE, the QuickStart would run but not the BOE. It was finally attributed to the USB 3.0 connectors.

    You would think if the QS runs then the FTDI drivers were installed correctly and that the issues lay with either the PC or the BOE.

    FTDI have software utilities on their site, mentioned in the above thread that were helpful in resolving the matter. Even though the thread was aimed at Win 7 it could be helpful in your case also.

    Jeff T.
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2012-05-02 17:44
    A couple of important points to be made here:
    • These machines are Windows XP, 32 Bit, and only have one USB Port.
    • The problem described here (and at least by some on the referenced thread), has nothing to do with the Prop Tool. This is an error/inability for the Operating system to install the driver. This is a step before you're even ready to connect with the PropTool.
    • Based on troubleshooting I've done, and the fact that this has affected multiple computers, and every other FTDI device I try connecting works, Including a "pre-production" PropBOE, I am led to the conclusion that "something" is different about the FTDI setup on the PropBOE than the other devices (Quick Start, C3, USB2SER, PropPlug, Prop Protoboards, Gadget Ganster Platform, etc.) ALL of these other other devices work fine. NONE of the new PropBOEs work on these computers.
    • Obviously, something is also different on these computers than other computers. We have been able to succesfully connect and program these same PropBOE boards on other computers.
    • This has nothing to do with the Propeller chip. It is with the FTDI interface and it's drivers. There MUST be SOMETHING different on the PropBOE than the other divices. Either something in the circuit (hardware), or a flag in the FTDI firmware, etc.
    • The telling point is that virtually any other device works, and the PropBOE does not.
    • While there may be something than can (hopefully will) be done on the computer to make this work, the fact remains, that the PropBOEs are working differently than a multitude of other FTDI products from Parallax.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,827
    edited 2012-05-03 03:30
    First thing I'd try is putting a powered USB hub between the PC and the BOE...

    If that doesn't work, I guess we need to figure out what Parallax did to make that FTDI chip connection different...
    Maybe I'd use FTDI's MProg program to probe the FTDI chip and see what's going on...
  • UnsoundcodeUnsoundcode Posts: 1,532
    edited 2012-05-03 04:49
    What I did notice in the previous thread when I saw the screen shots from USBView was that the 232 EEPROM on the BOE had been programmed with "Parallax inc" as the manufacturer "PropBOE" as the manufacturers product and no device serial number.

    Is it possible the EEPROM may have a "bad" parameter, does the PropBOE that does work in your PC have the same device descriptor as the one that does not.

    Jeff T.
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2012-05-03 05:11
    Rayman wrote: »
    First thing I'd try is putting a powered USB hub between the PC and the BOE...

    If that doesn't work, I guess we need to figure out what Parallax did to make that FTDI chip connection different...
    Maybe I'd use FTDI's MProg program to probe the FTDI chip and see what's going on...

    I will try the powered USB hub tonight. I "think" we've tried that, but am not sure. I may have a chance to try during the day, but the current calendar does not look promising...

    I have also submitted this to Parallax Support. We discussed this briefly at the Expo, but at the time, we were "assuming" it was a driver issue.
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2012-05-03 05:14
    What I did notice in the previous thread when I saw the screen shots from USBView was that the 232 EEPROM on the BOE had been programmed with "Parallax inc" as the manufacturer "PropBOE" as the manufacturers product and no device serial number.

    Is it possible the EEPROM may have a "bad" parameter, does the PropBOE that does work in your PC have the same device descriptor as the one that does not.

    Jeff T.

    I don't know yet, again, will look more tonight. I don't know if I'd classify it as a "bad" parameter, but one would suspect something "different"... (other than mfg/product name...)
  • UnsoundcodeUnsoundcode Posts: 1,532
    edited 2012-05-03 05:59
    MProg has been replaced by FT_Prog which will allow you to edit the EEPROM contents. http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Utilities.htm

    When I say "bad" parameter it seems to me that the device should at least have a serial number which in the previous post it did not, then again the device did eventually work without any modification. But I feel sure it should have a unique serial number and I would probably pop one in there if it was not present just for the hell of it.

    Jeff T.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,827
    edited 2012-05-03 06:06
    Maybe with MProg or FT_Prog, you can just copy the setting from one of the working boards onto the FTDI on the BOE...
  • UnsoundcodeUnsoundcode Posts: 1,532
    edited 2012-05-03 06:49
    Maybe with MProg or FT_Prog, you can just copy the setting from one of the working boards onto the FTDI on the BOE...

    I agree, it is well worth the try. As for the serial number there is an option for FT_Prog to auto generate a unique number which I think should be in the format two alpha and upto six numeric.

    Jeff T.
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2012-05-03 09:22
    I agree, it is well worth the try. As for the serial number there is an option for FT_Prog to auto generate a unique number which I think should be in the format two alpha and upto six numeric.

    Jeff T.

    Based on past work with other FTDI devices, I can state that the Mfg, Device and S/N do not normally affect connectivity. (I've seen blank, and duplicates work with no issues.)
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2012-05-03 09:29
    FWIW, I use a PropBOE with both a Mac and a Windows XP Netbook without problems. I have the current FTDI drivers for both. On the Mac, I also run Windows XP using Parallels Desktop with the FTDI driver on the Windows "side" ... again no problems.
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2012-05-03 20:43
    As an update, a Powered USB hub does not resolve the issue on afflicted computers... (at least in our case on two very different models (one Dell and one Toughbook)).

    Newer PCs/Laptops do not seem to be a problem (other than the potential USB3 issues reported in the other thread).
  • bee_manbee_man Posts: 109
    edited 2012-05-03 21:47
    What COM Port is it connecting to. I have had this problem several times when the COM port gets higher like COM10 or COM12. FTDI has a utility on their web site to reassign comm ports. I usually get much better connections if I reasign to COM1 or 2. I don't know if it is just my Acer netbook or what but I had to do this last month when I got my PropBOE inorder to get it recognized. It was trying to connect to COM15 with no success, I changed it to COM1 and it works just fine.

    http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Utilities/Reassign%20COMNo%20Utility.zip


    Ron wrote a great little utility to see what's connected to what port here

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?133040-Problem-How-can-I-detect-which-usb-port-my-propeller-is-on-programatically
  • average joeaverage joe Posts: 795
    edited 2012-05-03 21:53
    Are you logging into the affected computers under an Administrator account? Is it possible that IT has disabled driver installation, or frozen the operating systems?
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,827
    edited 2012-05-04 03:32
    Any way of adding a USB2 PCI card to one of the computers and see if that helps?
    I see one for $8 on Amazon (low price compared to Prop BOE).

    Went looking on PropBOE photo to see if there was anywhere to connect a Prop Plug, but don't see anything...
    (Personally, I like to add a Prop Plug port even if I have a FTDI chip onboard...)
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2012-05-04 04:31
    Are you logging into the affected computers under an Administrator account? Is it possible that IT has disabled driver installation, or frozen the operating systems?

    We are in ad admin account, and we can attach, and connect to virtually any other FTDI device I can get my hands on...
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2012-05-04 04:36
    Rayman wrote: »
    Any way of adding a USB2 PCI card to one of the computers and see if that helps?
    I see one for $8 on Amazon (low price compared to Prop BOE).

    Went looking on PropBOE photo to see if there was anywhere to connect a Prop Plug, but don't see anything...
    (Personally, I like to add a Prop Plug port even if I have a FTDI chip onboard...)

    Nope, no space for an expansion card.

    Short term, I can get around this because all of my kids except one have their own laptop that works just dandy. Brendan may have a laptop that works, or I can borrow him one of mine, or one from work. That has my current class covered, but does not help with potential "Saturday Afternoon at the Park" sessions coming up this summer.

    I have received word through a submission to Parallax Support that Engineering was already aware of, and working on the issue.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,827
    edited 2012-05-04 08:44
    I think the FTDI chip is going to have to be reprogrammed, or FTDI is going to have to put out a revised driver...
    I'm guessing Parallax bought the chips preprogrammed...

    The only other possible fix for you that I can think of is to try a very, very old FDTI driver...
    Maybe you can find an antique version of the Prop Tool install package somewhere...
    That maybe a longshot though...
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,827
    edited 2012-05-08 18:00
    John, any word back from Parallax about this?
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2012-05-14 19:39
    Rayman wrote: »
    John, any word back from Parallax about this?

    Nada, none, nope...

    My immediate problem is resolved only because the various youth's parents stepped forward with laptops the kids could use. I will "poke the bear" and ask support for an update. This is still a problem for Columbia County 4-H in the long run.
  • UnsoundcodeUnsoundcode Posts: 1,532
    edited 2012-05-15 05:04
    Hi John, could the problem be related to the discussion in this thread http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?140078-Weird-problem-uploading-to-QuickStart

    PropBOE also has the buffer between FT232 and Prop

    Jeff T.
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2012-05-15 05:15
    Hi John, could the problem be related to the discussion in this thread http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?140078-Weird-problem-uploading-to-QuickStart

    PropBOE also has the buffer between FT232 and Prop

    Jeff T.

    I'm guessing (as in don't know, but think) this isn't the case, as the Quick Start boards work great...
  • Invent-O-DocInvent-O-Doc Posts: 768
    edited 2012-05-21 19:08
    My win7 64b laptop has USB 3.0 ports only - so my prop BOE wont work at all.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,827
    edited 2012-05-22 03:25
    Invent-O-Doc, Ouch, that's not good...

    Can you try plugging in a USB 2.0 Hub into your USB 3.0 port and then connecting the PropBOE to the USB 2.0 Hub?

    I think that should work, but who knows...
  • Invent-O-DocInvent-O-Doc Posts: 768
    edited 2012-05-22 14:30
    That is a no-go Rayman - I've moved to an older machine as a temporary solution. Good thought, though.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,827
    edited 2012-05-22 15:07
    Leon mentioned a new FTDI driver for USB 3.0 in the other thread... Has anybody tried it yet?
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2012-06-27 15:25
    Hey Gang;

    After some delays for a number of reasons on both sides, Parallax support has come up with a solution, at least for the old USB ports. I have not had a chance (and may not get one) to find out if this resolves issues with USB3 ports.

    Ultimately, we finally got down to "what's different about the PropBOE" from any other Parallax product. Ultimately, that was a simple question once we got down to it. The PropBOE (the production version, not the first lot from way back when), are the only Parallax product (so far) to have the FTDI chip programmed to ask for the full 500 mAmps of power that "may" be available on a USB Port. All other Parallax products are programmed to ask for 90 mAmps.

    The solution involves getting the FT_PROG utility, available here: http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Utilities.htm#FT_Prog You can then re-program the FTDI chip to only ask for 90 mAmps (or whatever value you choose).

    The setting that needs to be changed is the "Max Bus Power" setting in the "USB Config Descriptor" section.

    This has worked for my oldie but goodie ports on the 4-H computers. Again, I don't know if the same solution will work on the USB3 Port issues. You should also be aware of the following bullet points:
    • The PropBOE has over current protection on the USB power. This is fixed at just under 500 mAmps by a resistor value. As a result, it is entirely possible that you could over draw the setting (i.e. the 90 mAmps) and have the USB port shut down. In order to prevent this, you will need to do one of the following:
      • Preferably, provide external power (via the barrel jack) to the PropBOE.
      • Alternately, make sure the PropBOE does not require more current than your setting.
    • You need to be able to successfully connect to the PropBOE in order to use the FT_PROG utility. The utility uses the virtual serial port to enumerate and program the chip, so if the connection fails at the Windows level, you're out of luck.
    I am leaving this thread marked as "unsolved" unless/until someone can verify that this also works for the USB3 port issues. I'm currently not able to monitor these forms as much as I would like (darned day gig and keeping a roof over your head thing), so if anyone can validate this solution for USB3, if you can either PM or e-mail me, I'll get the status changed.
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