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I need some advice on using 24v scooter motors for a robot project. — Parallax Forums

I need some advice on using 24v scooter motors for a robot project.

ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
edited 2012-04-26 18:12 in Robotics
I've got some kids who want to build a "real" robot made of metal and bike chains, etc. so I've been eyeing the 24 VDC electric scooter motors. Problem is, I know nothing about these kinds of motors, how hard are they to control via BS2 or Propellers, for example, or how exactly to make controllers for them. Poking around the internet, I've seen debates about buying geared vs. non-geared versions of these motors, various talks about what sort of H-bridges to use, or whether the standard scooter controllers can be hacked somehow. So I would like to know if anyone on the forum has had any experience with these sorts of motors and might want to share some thoughts, good links, horror stories, and the like.

Thanks.

Comments

  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2012-04-26 08:36
    Kids & fingers & chains make for a worrysome combination IMO. Especially with high-power bike & scooter motors. I made a 36V electric bike using a 250W geared motor from TNCscooters.com. Very torquey motor, I used their speed controller & hall-effect throttle. Cheap and they work great. Most scooter controllers do not have reverse, FYI.

    Thought I didn't need a controller initially. Used a 40A automotive lighting relay for simple on/off control. Worked fine on the bench, but it arc-welded itself into position on the very first ride and I couldn't turn it off. Made for a very exciting first ride!

    http://tncscooters.com/

    BTW, if you used one of those 250W gearmotors and simply replaced the sprocket with a wheel, that would be much safer (chain-wise at least) and still plenty strong & fast. Maybe too strong & fast.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2012-04-26 08:54
    erco wrote: »
    ... Most scooter controllers do not have reverse, FYI...

    Oh, yes, that's a good point. Oops. I hadn't thought of that. Kids today, you know, they aren't like us when we were growing up. We used to ride our bikes backwards down and up hills all the time.

    erco wrote: »
    ...

    BTW, if you used one of those 250W gearmotors and simply replaced the sprocket with a wheel, that would be much safer (chain-wise at least) and still plenty strong & fast. Maybe too strong & fast.

    Yes, that's a big question mark for me. How controllable are these scooter motor things? Would an H-bridge controlled by a BS2 be able to tame them or are they just "too much". I think what the kids envision is something that can roam around outside in the grass and go up hills and shoot things with paint ball guns, etc. They saw some RC battle tanks at the local Robotfest a couple weeks ago and they (and I, I guess) are using those as a sort of point of reference.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2012-04-26 09:12
    Mine was very controllable using the hand throttle, but I haven't hacked into it to see what it would take to control with a BS2. IMHO, those scooter motors are too powerful (especially two of them) for kids. Sounds like you might be better off gutting two Power Wheels kiddie ride-ons and making a big 4WD robot like a big Rebound. THAT would be fun and would never get stuck in the grass or hills. Blast with paintballs, it won't mind. Scour your local Craigslist for cheap Power Wheels. As long as they''re not riding on it, you could make a cheap, simple relay H-bridge to control speed 6V/12V etc.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYh2JaHsdak&feature=plcp
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2012-04-26 12:52
    You may want to consider using an electric wheelchair as a base. You can find them on craigslist, sometimes for free. You could either hack into the existing controller or just use a pair of Jaguars.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2012-04-26 13:26
    erco wrote: »
    Most scooter controllers do not have reverse, FYI.

    Is there any reason the motors wouldn't turn in reverse if you switched the polarity?

    I'd like to build a robot powerful enough to get around outside sometime (maybe to mow the lawn or plow snow). It seems like these scooter motors would be a good option, but I'd definitely want it to be able to go in reverse.

    (I've bookmarked the scooter sites you listed in the other scooter moter thread.)
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2012-04-26 13:50
    @Duane: Sure, you can always throw in a reversing DPDT relay, triggered by an extra IO pin per motor. Just wanted to point out that there's no reverse built into most of them. Who rides a scooter backwards? :)

    Maybe this guy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktyRiTv9qsI&feature=related
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2012-04-26 14:23
    erco wrote: »
    ...Sounds like you might be better off gutting two Power Wheels kiddie ride-ons and making a big 4WD robot like a big Rebound. THAT would be fun...

    Hmmm, yes, you might be right about it being too powerful for kids. I'll have a look at these Power Wheel things and see what can be done. I think the kids are into something that looks serious though, so I've got to at least provide the appearance that we're not recycling mere toys or whatever. Or maybe it's just my own repressed yearning to use robotic armies to conquer the planet that is erupting to the surface... finally!
    W9GFO wrote: »
    You may want to consider using an electric wheelchair as a base. You can find them on craigslist, sometimes for free. ....

    That sounds like an interesting idea. I'm sure autonomous robots roving the 'hood will be against the law, but if I can attach a stray mother-in-law to one, maybe that would be a loophole worth exploiting. I'm betting that I could get a whole lot of free electric wheelchairs if I'd offer to take the mother-in-laws that are often attached to them. I know I'd be willing to give up mine for free if there were any takers.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2012-04-26 14:42
    I'm betting that I could get a whole lot of free electric wheelchairs if I'd offer to take the mother-in-laws that are often attached to them. I know I'd be willing to give up mine for free if there were any takers.

    I'm not sure, but I have the impression that electric wheelchair motors are larger than a lot of those scooter motors.

    One concern I'd have about electric wheelchair motors would be finding a replacement if I needed one. It would be kind of nice to be able to get four of the same motor and to be able to replace one if needed.

    However, I wouldn't say no to some free wheelchair motors.
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2012-04-26 15:27
    24v electric scooter (as in powered wheel chair) are awesome and even with shipping sometimes eBay is the best bet. Hacking the motor controller that comes with en electric wheelchair is a pain because of all the safety circuits involved. A fun riding scooter may not have all those issues. The best thing about wheelchair motors is they have brakes which you can remove and place shaft encoders there instead. As far as motor controllers go I heard so many horror stories about frying cheap controllers I bought a nice Roboteq http://www.roboteq.com/ controller. Using that controller I can monitor the volts and amps and as it turned out my 24v motors run great on 12v at low enough amps for it not to be as big a deal as the general consensus online seems to think. I have the stall cut-off at 8amps and it has never hit that. It only weighs around 60 lbs though.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2012-04-26 18:12
    I think this balanced skateboard thing made with scooter motors makes for good conversation. I wonder if a BS2 could handle the gyro, etc.?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=engi16bLJe0
  • I deem thee 'Scooterbot',

    I picked an old thread because, this idea has been done before in some fashion or another, though I can't find a finished project.

    My daughter had this in the trash and almost got picked up by her service, I had to smack myself because, I didn't instill it in her to call me first, when she decides to pitch possable useful items.

    In an initial check of the system I found a loose connector and a broken battery cable, the rear tire has to be replaced because of flat spots, 'kids will do it every time', there must be pretty good speed out of it, and the brakes work well, to turn a round wheel into a square one.

    I'm hoping to get a balancing bot with a grim reaper type rider put together for Halloween. This is a 24vdc chain drive system, I'm wondering if the motor controller can be hacked, or to go with something different. I want to use a Propeller and Memsic 2125 for the brains, it will definitely need an XBee, as I can't run that fast anymore. I want to include some failsafe's like a ping sensor, brake control and a way to cut power, if anyone has ideas they would like to share, I would appreciate it.

    Also I have been sitting on this wheelchair base for a while now, would make a good mule or electric guard dog. I don't want to make drastic changes on it, may need to use it for its origial intention someday.

    Mike
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