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Inspired by Roy's fabrication machine at Expo — Parallax Forums

Inspired by Roy's fabrication machine at Expo

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
edited 2012-04-20 03:22 in General Discussion
Looking at Roy's fabrication machine at PEXPO/UPEW, I was curious if it might be possible to create an inexpensive version of this (Propeller controlled of course!) which might be able to start very simple and create a more complex version of itself. I know folks have created upgrade parts using the machine, but how cool would it be if you could start with some very simple parts (glue gun extruder) and slowly upgrade to the complexity I saw on the project table.

Are there any projects like this all ready under way somewhere? My hardware engineering skills are simply not up to the task of under taking this with anything less than a kit, so I might simply have to purchase my own unit piece-by-piece.

OBC

Comments

  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2012-04-17 10:44
    Another thing I missed at Expo! As Tommy told me, "you gotta get out of this tent"! Sounds intriguing...
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2012-04-17 10:45
    Same! I was so busy managing the speakers in the UPEW section that I didn't get to meet erco in person! (Truly Bummed!)

    OBC
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2012-04-17 11:13
    I've wanted to do a very low-end 3D printer using off-the-shelf parts, like the micro machine framing or even the servo erector set parts that Lynxmotion sells. IOW, nothing custom for the framework. At last year's UPEW I presented it to some folks at Parallax, but having a zillion ideas of their own it sort of just went away.

    I still believe it's possible to construct a basic platform for a couple of hundred, plus the motors, which can be purchased surplus from a number of courses. Many of us don't need a large machine, so something that does parts under 75mm is fine. That reduces cost. Some components for the machine, like the mandel, have to be fabricated, but those can be done on any CNC. I don't think the design has to be self-replicating like the RepRap. Contrary to its aim, this goal can actually increase the complexity of the design, and so make it more expensive in the long run.

    I once heard Parallax was working with the MakerBot folks for using the Propeller as the controller. Don't know where that currently stands.

    Eventually, perhaps within the next few years, Brother, Canon, Samsung, or another paper printer manufacturer will produce one of these for the mainstream market. It'll be intended for low-end business, so it'll be in the $1K range, but prices will come down, and they'll eventually do something for the consumer market.

    -- Gordon
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-04-17 11:36
    My money would be on Roland to be first out of the gate with a low-end commercial unit. The major deterrent to most manufacturers, I suspect, is that the machines can be a bit fussy. Anytime a liquid is involved in any process, you have problems. It won't do any company any good to introduce an entry-level machine if the cost of customer support exceeds the gross profit margin.

    -Phil
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2012-04-17 11:51
    Well, remember that the printers themselves are loss leaders. The money is in the refills. At (say) $100 for a materials cartridge -- about on par with today's laser toners -- that buys a lot of customer support. The actual cost of the cartridge, which comes in various colors, is at most $8-10.

    IOW, think Brother p-Touch and the outrageous prices they charge for a few yards of labeling tape.

    But you're right, they have to ensure a hassle-free experience, or at least strive for it. To test drive the market and process they can come out with one that decorates cupcakes and pastry with color-injected frosting. Same basic idea, and they already have these for sale at hobby and craft stores. Only they're specialized and not produced in high volumes, so they're more expensive. You have to be a pretty dedicated cake maker to afford one.

    -- Gordon
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2012-04-17 12:46
    I still believe it's possible to construct a basic platform for a couple of hundred,

    Maybe check out bart dring, the sliders are also the frame ad bearings.

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/93832939/makerslide-open-source-linear-bearing-system

    This is likely to be my next build, the prop control firmware won't be out until summer-ish.
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2012-04-17 12:57
    Someone needs to make a 3d printer that takes pellets rather than filament. That would tremendously reduce operating costs.

    I think the printrbot guy visited Parallax a while ago. That is about the lowest cost one out there I think.

    The Up 3d Printer has been out for a while. Fully assembled (metal) for around $1,500.

    MakerBot's new Replicator is a very nice, smooth, quiet machine. Fully assembled (laser cut light ply and a bunch of injection molded parts) for about $2k with dual extruders. The resolution is rapidly approaching that of the commercial machines. With dual extruders you can print with a water soluble support material - just like the big boys. If I were to buy another printer right now, it would be the Replicator.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-04-17 13:07
    The nice thing about filament, though, is that it's so easy to meter. To meter pellets, you'd have to come up with some sort of heated screw-ram extruder device, like they use with injection molders, and a way to eliminate air bubbles.

    -Phil
  • vanmunchvanmunch Posts: 568
    edited 2012-04-17 13:52
    I didn't know if you'll have seen this one. It's the first resin based one that I've seen. Very clever use of a projector.
    http://www.indiegogo.com/veloso3dprinter
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2012-04-17 14:10
    The Veloso printer is one of the variants I had in mind for a low-cost commercial unit. Since the light need only be white, a monochromatic DLP element could be produced for cheaper than what they use for color devices (in a movie theater they use three DLP chips, and combine the light for RGB; a home DLP unit uses a single DLP chip with separate color sources or color wheel). The setup would be cheaper than a 1+ watt laser and XY galvo setup, and with that you'd have to use a resin designed for a specific monochromatic wavelength.

    A non-sputtered build approach is likely to be the kind used with mainstream devices. Photopolymers may be more costly than filament, and can do only one color, but for most jobs they provide a superior result.

    But there are other methods, too, including laser cut paper sandwiched together. This is one of the reasons I said a paper printer maker may get involved sooner than we think. We'll see these first at FedEx Office (ye olde Kinkos). Those machines will be $20K+ jobbies, though, where speed is important.

    -- Gordon
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2012-04-17 14:34
    I forget what it is called but there is a machine out there that uses paper-thin layers of plastic to build up a 3d model.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2012-04-17 14:48
    Same! I was so busy managing the speakers in the UPEW section that I didn't get to meet erco in person! (Truly Bummed!)

    OBC

    But Jeff, imagine how I feel: I didn't get to meet the legendary OBC!!! Next time fer sher...
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-04-17 14:53
    Here's one of the manufacturers of Laminated Object Modeling machines:

    This company seems to be selling the same machine:

    -Phil
  • MacTuxLinMacTuxLin Posts: 821
    edited 2012-04-17 16:09
    Yeap, the demo by Roy was cool & I'd like one myself once the price is right.
  • Roy ElthamRoy Eltham Posts: 3,000
    edited 2012-04-19 01:21
    You can get a complete RepRap based 3D printer these days in kit form for less than $500. You'll have to do soldering, wiring, and assembly of all the mechanics/hardware.

    I think it's better to get a kit and build it, because you will acquire the knowledge to help you keep it maintained in the process. It's not too bad, but you can't expect to just keep printing on it forever without cleaning, adjusting and maybe even replacing/repairing parts.

    Also, I really want to get a Prop based controller going on this. My main issue is time to spend on it. I have other things I am working on that are arguably more important, but I hope to squeeze some time here and there and get something going.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2012-04-19 08:31
    Roy: I'm in the dark here. Do you have a video of your fabulous fabrication machine?
  • Roy ElthamRoy Eltham Posts: 3,000
    edited 2012-04-19 09:08
    erco,
    Sorry I do not have video of my specific machine, but if you search youtube for eMaker Huxley, you can find several videos of others.
    I did do a blog post with pictures of my machine and some stuff I printed with it: http://rpef.blogspot.com/2012/03/adventures-in-3d-printing.html
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2012-04-19 09:33
    erco wrote: »
    Another thing I missed at Expo! As Tommy told me, "you gotta get out of this tent"! Sounds intriguing...

    I'm with you...as we were in the same tent, we got about the same coverage. There were many attendees I did not get the chance to meet in person this year.
  • MacTuxLinMacTuxLin Posts: 821
    edited 2012-04-20 03:22
    Roy Eltham wrote: »
    You can get a complete RepRap based 3D printer these days in kit form for less than $500. You'll have to do soldering, wiring, and assembly of all the mechanics/hardware.

    I think it's better to get a kit and build it, because you will acquire the knowledge to help you keep it maintained in the process. It's not too bad, but you can't expect to just keep printing on it forever without cleaning, adjusting and maybe even replacing/repairing parts.

    Darn. I should have got it before leaving the States....
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