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Welcome... and... :( - Propeller chip is hard to buy in Poland — Parallax Forums

Welcome... and... :( - Propeller chip is hard to buy in Poland

pik33pik33 Posts: 2,402
edited 2012-04-18 00:28 in General Discussion
This is my first post here. My first look at Propeller was Turbulence demo by LFT. ,

Some time ago I starting to write this:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pc-softsynth/files/

(still in alpha stage but working - you have to download 0.06 vesion and replace .exe from 0.07, needs SDL)

It is PC synthesiser compatible with Atari Softsynth (1985 8-bit program) format.

I want to recreate this in hardware. First thought was Atmega88 but it has simply too low power to do this. Then I found Propeller but...

.... I tried to buy it in your store - shipping cost is about $50 :(

This chip is almost unavailable here; I can buy it here for about (equivalent) $17 plus about $8 shipping, it is simply too expensive to start play with it.

Is it possible to get this chip here for some affordable price? At now, it is almost unknown here, maybe because of unavailability.
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Comments

  • Mark_TMark_T Posts: 1,981
    edited 2012-04-05 06:53
    Tried pl.farnell.com ? In the UK Farnell don't charge for postage but you have a minimum order value of £20 (around $32) They have propellers at 50.47 Zloty before tax I think.

    Also checked the list of European suppliers at http://www.parallax.com/LocateaDistributor/EuropeanDistributors/tabid/492/Default.aspx ?
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2012-04-05 07:39
    Ask these guys:

    http://hive-project.de/

    They are very nice and might have information for you.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2012-04-05 07:39
    What kind of Propeller chip/board did you want to buy?

    I just weighed a QuickStart in a 15 cm X 10 cm X 3 cm box and it weighed about 55 grams.

    The price to send a box (USPS) weighing 85 grams (I figure the padding will add some weight) is $4.56.

    Is there a problem if I, or someone else in the USA, sends you the part/board directly?

    I have a variety of Propeller chips and Propeller boards, I could sell to you for the price I paid for them plus the price to ship them if it would be easier (and/or cheaper) for you.

    The Propeller is a really fun chip. It would be a shame if the price of shipping kept you from using the chip.
  • pik33pik33 Posts: 2,402
    edited 2012-04-05 08:11
    @Duane Degn: When I have some more money to spend, I would buy a demo board; now, I only want to buy a 40-pin DIP Propeller chip, or eventually two of them. Now I have to check how can I pay you and if money transfer cost is not excessive. Rest of elements, boards, resistors, etc, are easy available and not expensive here.

    I tried Farnell; 50.47PLN before tax is 64 with tax (it's about $20) plus shipping - :(

    @prof_braino: I saw hive-project.de. Interesting project, but.. have they any information in English? German is hard to read for me. And impossible to write.

    About European suppliers.. I didn't see it before.But now i have checked it - of course Poland is not listed. I will check them for prices and shipping costs :)
    The Propeller is a really fun chip. It would be a shame if the price of shipping kept you from using the chip.

    Yes, it is.. I read all what I can and... you can do with it what you want. For example SidCOG - beautiful piece of code. And.. maybe 6502 emulation? I saw someone here who woks on it.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2012-04-05 09:03
    pik33 wrote: »
    I only want to buy a 40-pin DIP Propeller chip, or eventually two of them. Now I have to check how can I pay you and if money transfer cost is not excessive.

    Here's what I've got:
    I have some QFP Propeller chips I could sell to you for $7 each (limit 5). I have a couple (I think 2) of DIP Propeller chips I'd sell for $8 each. I also have the other parts (crystal, EEPROM, etc.) to use with a Propeller chip I'd sell for the price I paid for them.

    I also have an unused QuickStart board and an unused USB ProtoBoard, I'd sell for the same price Parallax sells them (plus whatever it costs to ship them to Poland).

    I have a couple (2 maybe 3) of these boards to use with the QFP chips, I would be willing to sell.

    I don't know how you'd transfer money. I don't suppose you could use PayPal?
  • pik33pik33 Posts: 2,402
    edited 2012-04-05 09:20
    PayPal works in Poland, so I think I could use it. I have no PayPal account, so I have to check and eventually create it.


    Edit: PayPal account created :)
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2012-04-05 09:59
    pik33 wrote: »
    PayPal account created :)

    Cool.

    Send me a private message with your address when you want to buy something (and what you want to buy) and I'll try to figure out how much postage will cost.
  • pik33pik33 Posts: 2,402
    edited 2012-04-05 10:12
    Propeller chips :) One DIP40.

    Maybe another one, I have to decide, DIP or QFP I work at technical university (maybe I can persuade to use Propellers in education.) - we have some soldering equipment here, maybe QFP can be more convinient.

    So I'll write tomorrow - if I'll buy one or two chips...

    At now, I have no money for demoboards etc. I have some boards, quartz and other things in my drawer so I can start soldering my prototype board with DIP40 now (not exactly now, there is 7 PM here) - and insert a Propeller when I get it (and then run a SidCog and Turbulence :) )
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2012-04-05 11:23
    pik33 wrote: »
    Propeller chips :) One DIP40.

    Maybe another one, I have to decide, DIP or QFP I work at technical university (maybe I can persuade to use Propellers in education.) - we have some soldering equipment here, maybe QFP can be more convinient.

    So I'll write tomorrow - if I'll buy one or two chips...

    At now, I have no money for demoboards etc. I have some boards, quartz and other things in my drawer so I can start soldering my prototype board with DIP40 now (not exactly now, there is 7 PM here) - and insert a Propeller when I get it (and then run a SidCog and Turbulence :) )

    I'm with Duane,

    If someone over in Europe has a problem with shipping cost, I'd be willing to send some parts over. I do a lot of ebay shipping all over the world, and get pretty good prices from USPS, (as long as the weight is not high).

    I also have a few DIPS in stock, so keep that in mind.

    Best Regards,

    Jim
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2012-04-05 11:31
    I just checked. I have two DIP Propeller chips.

    @Jim, Yeah, it's too bad shipping is so expensive from retailers when it's not really very much if you go down to the post office.
  • TharkunTharkun Posts: 67
    edited 2012-04-05 11:33
    Hi Pik,

    here is an adress in the UK, they sell QFN and DIP for £6.40 each.

    http://www.spinvent.co.uk/

    Delivery by Royal Mail is £4.00 per order.
  • pik33pik33 Posts: 2,402
    edited 2012-04-06 09:31
    This Spinvent.co.uk seems the cheapest way to buy a demo board (when I found some money for it). Still expensive, comparing to its original price, but cheaper than other distributors I've found so far.

    I haven't a chip, but I have a manual to read. This chip is fantastic. It can execute self-modifying code... maybe it is possible to write a fast virtual machine with PASM-like assembler code in main ram (no code length limit),... or attach a cog to external ram via i/o pins and execute code from it.... And these counters, I can use them directly for sound synthesis, two channels of sound can be created with them in one cog.. And I think about 6502 emulation - I saw a thread about it here.

    I have my head full of crazy ideas now... My English is too weak to write about all of them.

    I programmed several processors in my life (6502, z80, x86) - in ASM - Propeller is different from them all and it simply can't be called a microcontroller. A microcontroller (at least AVR or 8051) executes its code from flash, this code can't be executed from RAM, it can't be self modifying
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2012-04-06 10:39
    pik33,

    I agree, the Propeller is really cool.

    PM me your address and I'll make sure you get one (free).
  • MoskogMoskog Posts: 554
    edited 2012-04-06 10:58
    Elfa Distrelec also sell Propeller products, the swedish company also seems to have stores in Poland.



    https://www.elfaelektronika.pl/elfa3~pl_pl/elfa/init.do?query=propeller

    Not the cheapest way but take a look.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2012-04-06 11:44
    We are probably not as inexpensive (shipping) as a more local company, but I can't imagine any problem shipping Gadget Gangster stuff that direction. Our shipping would be $8.00. I've shipped over over the world in the last six month of working with GG, and had only a single issue with an international shipment due to a bad address.

    OBC
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2012-04-06 13:32
    I would like to follow Duane Degan's lead:
    pik33 wrote: »
    ... way to buy a demo board (when I found some money for it).
    I have a Propeller Demo Board that I purchased when they first came out. It has been sitting unused for quite a long time now because of other new Propeller boards I have purchased. I have been on the receiving end of generosity many times from forum members here and would like to "pay it forward" by sending you this Demo Board as a gift.

    If you will PM your mailing address to me I will send it to you at no cost to you.

    Welcome to the Parallax Community!

    Paul
  • pik33pik33 Posts: 2,402
    edited 2012-04-07 05:26
    Thank you ! :)

    Propeller is not only great chip, but it has also great community.

    Now I 'll have tools for learning. And before these tools wiil be available to me (standard mail needs about two weeks to deliver from USA to Poland) I have a lot to read here.

    Since 1990, I didn't learn any ASM without a hardware so I feel now like in these old, good time when I was young (and using 8-bit Atari computer to play and learn programming)
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2012-04-07 16:37
    Damn cool guys! I'm inspired to do a similar thing, and I'll be watching for when it makes sense. I'll bet all of us have a piece of gear or two we can unload on somebody. Noted, and very nicely done.

    Re: Atari like feel.

    Yes! Exactly. The chip is a lot of fun, and the limits are very reminiscent of 8 bit computers. Enjoy! Looking forward to seeing how you end up propping!
  • AribaAriba Posts: 2,690
    edited 2012-04-07 22:59
    pik33

    Here is another European shop which may be a bit cheaper than Spinvent:
    http://www.zekotec.ch/

    Andy
  • pik33pik33 Posts: 2,402
    edited 2012-04-07 23:54
    I bookmarked Spinvent because of its cheap (4GBP) shipping and PayPal money transfer. My bank wants at least 80PLN (about 25$) for ANY money transfer abroad. Plus some percents from transferred money.

    It looks like zekotec.ch wants 40CHF for shipping.

    Parallax need a reseller here. Poland has about 37 million of citizens, it is not very small country and Parallax is simply unknown here. My friends at work, who uses microcontrollers everyday, for education and their own projects, didn't hear anything about Propeller. I didn't hear about it too, but I saw lft's Turbulence demo :) First time I saw it, I thought, ok, this may be a cool chip, but what it is? After some time, I started to plan a music synthesizer in hardware, of course in Atmega. Some of my ideas was impossible on it. So I recheck Propeller and started to read its manual. Then found a SidCOG. If it can emulate SID, everything is possible :)
  • Invent-O-DocInvent-O-Doc Posts: 768
    edited 2012-04-08 05:42
    Hi pik33. Poland is a fairly large country with as you mentioned $38.5 million people - about half of UK or Germany. How much microcontroller development and experimentation activity is going on in Poland and in what cities is it concentrated? Just curious.
  • pik33pik33 Posts: 2,402
    edited 2012-04-08 08:23
    I don't know exactly. AVR's are popular here, they are cheap and available in local hardware stores. 8051 and PICs are also known. I live in village near Bialystok, it is about 300000 citizens city in north-eastern Poland. I work at local technical university, we have about 14000 students. Our electrical engineering department teaches about 1500 students. We teach them about microcontrollers, too, mostly with AVR's. They have no knowledge about Parallax and/or Propeller at all, (unless someone of these students saw lft's "Turbulence" demo) Teachers don't know at all about it.. or, not, they know, I have told them :) I am not a teacher now (I was), now I am our local network administrator. (earning about $800/month - this is our average and local prices are in most cases lower than in Western Europe or USA)

    Development is concentrated - I think - in most populated cities. Warsaw, Gdansk (they have good technical university), Silesian area, Wroclaw, Poznan, Krakow.

    Bialystok, like rest of eastern Poland, is sometimes called "Poland B" (something worse, that western "Poland A") This area has its positive value, too, it is called a "green lungs" of Poland, there is a lot of forests, you can still find natural areas untouched by human activity.
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2012-04-09 12:12
    Piotr - board went out today. I sent it International Parcel Post - expected time is 2 weeks per the postal service on this end.

    Let me know when it arrives.

    Paul
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2012-04-09 16:39
    doggiedoc wrote: »
    Piotr - board went out today. I sent it International Parcel Post - expected time is 2 weeks per the postal service on this end.

    Let me know when it arrives.

    Paul

    Good on you Paul! I was waiting for a PM to see if he wanted a couple of DIP's, but he got a much better deal!

    Propellers in Poland. Hurah!

    Jim
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2012-04-09 17:38
    :D - Just "Paying it Forward" if you know what I mean.
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2012-04-09 18:21
    doggiedoc wrote: »
    :D - Just "Paying it Forward" if you know what I mean.

    Just make sure the cute kid doesn't die at the end of this one, OK?
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2012-04-09 18:33
    localroger wrote: »
    Just make sure the cute kid doesn't die at the end of this one, OK?
    10-4 sir.
  • pik33pik33 Posts: 2,402
    edited 2012-04-09 21:47
    Thank you again. This board is excellent tool to learn Propeller programming, there are a lot of example programs for it (I have Propeller Tools already installed).

    Also, when I get it, I want to show this board at my university

    Now, I want to: (1) learn (2) I found my good, old book "6502 processor"... will try to emulate it it (3) I want to have this: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pc-softsynth/files/ ported to propeller and before I get a Propeller, it is time to rewrite its main synthesis loop in integer x86 asm to prepare it for porting to Propeller. I wanted to rewrite it earlier, but there was no urgent need for this.
    Propellers in Poland. Hurah!

    There are no Propellers in Poland, time to change it. I read about it on Polish electronic forum. http://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic1977454.html#9425036 Someone write this (quote in Polish)
    Rodzina propeller
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2012-04-10 00:14
    Well, they have no real idea. :)
  • pik33pik33 Posts: 2,402
    edited 2012-04-10 00:58
    I will have one more challenge with this chip. Its character set contains only 2 of 18 characters used in Polish language (
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