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cheap wireless programmer for Boe-Bot — Parallax Forums

cheap wireless programmer for Boe-Bot

NeXT-GenerationNeXT-Generation Posts: 11
edited 2012-08-17 19:51 in BASIC Stamp
Hi, all!

So I just got the Boe-Bot (usb version) for my birthday a couple days ago, and really, really, like it! But, during some of the activities in the book (and stuff I plan to do with it) , being wired to the computer is a problem. I know that people have pulled it off with wireless usb hubs, but the cheapest I can find are like ~$60, and I don't want to spend that much. I saw the Flash Fly kit, but, same price problem.

So, does anyone out there know of a cheap way (~$30) to wirelessly program the Boe-Bot?

Comments

  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2012-04-01 21:03
    There is no cheap way to wirelessly program the Boe-Bot. The problem is that most wireless links are buffered. They save up some characters, then transmit them as a packet. Unfortunately, the download protocol for the Stamps (and the Propeller) is very timing sensitive and this buffering throws it off just enough so the downloading always gets an error. The way this is usually resolved by having the wireless device store the whole program on the Stamp side of the wireless link without triggering this timeout, then it downloads the program to the Stamp via the wired connection.

    Generally, unbuffered wireless links are not reliable enough to download programs, so that can't be used either.
  • NeXT-GenerationNeXT-Generation Posts: 11
    edited 2012-04-06 14:10
    Oh, okay. I didn't know that it was that sensitive. Maybe I can figure out some overly-complicated yet somehow workable way to do it wired....;) Or I could just keep bugging my parents about it and get the FlashFly :lol:
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,260
    edited 2012-04-09 14:04
    You can find these IOgear units used on Ebay for 30-ish occasionally:

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?128721-Wirelessly-program-a-Basic-Stamp-DONE&highlight=%2Bstamp+%2Bwireless+%2Bdone

    And Parallax carried them briefly, not sure if they still do.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2012-04-10 13:17
    Pololu's Wixels (http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1339) are getting some buzz because they are a USB and wireless solution in one package. This reduces the cost over an XBee which needs to be plugged into a TTL to USB module. I know they've been used as a wireless serial programmer for the Arduino, so I figured I would ask Pololu if they would work with the BS2. It turns out they tested it and they do not :^(.

    Here's the thread in their support forum: http://forum.pololu.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=5305

    That leave a wireless USB as the only inexpensive solution, but my BS2 boards are all serial so that won't work for me.
  • NeXT-GenerationNeXT-Generation Posts: 11
    edited 2012-04-10 14:40
    @erco
    My original thought had been a wireless hub, but I couldn't find any that had a reasonable price, or were just too darned big to mount on a Boe-Bot.

    @Martin_H
    I've seen the Wixels too, and will probably use them when I start using wireless. Why, why, oh WHY, dear Parallax, must the stamps be so picky?:depressed:

    Thanks anyway, everyone.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2012-04-10 16:58
    Given that Wixels are a TI microcontroller with 29kb flash, 4kb ram, usb, and radio on a single chip it might be possible to write an app for them that buffers the whole download, sends it over the air, and then uploads it onto the stamp. The problem is neither Pololu or TI is likely interested and likely Parallax has bigger fish to fry. There might be a market for a third party to complete with the FlashFly but I wouldn't hold my breath.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2012-04-10 17:21
    @NeXT-Generation,
    Remember that the Stamps were developed long before cheap, reliable, small wireless devices were available. When Propeller development was begun, things like xBee were not readily available.
  • NeXT-GenerationNeXT-Generation Posts: 11
    edited 2012-04-10 19:04
    Martin_H wrote: »
    Given that Wixels are a TI microcontroller with 29kb flash, 4kb ram, usb, and radio on a single chip it might be possible to write an app for them that buffers the whole download, sends it over the air, and then uploads it onto the stamp. The problem is neither Pololu or TI is likely interested and likely Parallax has bigger fish to fry. There might be a market for a third party to complete with the FlashFly but I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Hmm, yes. I had forgotten they could be programmed. Something to think about when I'm more experienced.
    Mike Green wrote: »
    @NeXT-Generation,
    Remember that the Stamps were developed long before cheap, reliable, small wireless devices were available. When Propeller development was begun, things like xBee were not readily available.

    Just how old are they? When did cheap, reliable, small wireless devices become available?
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2012-04-10 19:17
    I just saw on the Digi website that the xBee series 1 firmware was in beta test in 2006.
  • NeXT-GenerationNeXT-Generation Posts: 11
    edited 2012-04-10 19:23
    Really? That new, then. And the stamps have been around 10, maybe 15 years?
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2012-04-10 21:34
    Parallax Timeline here.

    The BS2 was first released in 1995. The BS1 is about 3 years older. The Propeller was released in 2006.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2012-04-11 05:54
    Over in the Pololu forum they keep saying that there's a work around to a bug in usbser.sys that if Parallax implements in their IDE it should work with the Wixel app. What doesn't quite add up is that the FTDI USB to serial cable works with the Stamp IDE. So that driver must work around the usbser.sys DTR problem while the native MS driver does not.

    Update: I posted a response over on their forum:

    I understand what you are saying and I posted this information over at the Parallax forum. What doesn't quite add up is that the FTDI USB to serial cable works with the Stamp IDE. So that driver must work around the usbser.sys DTR problem while the native MS binary coupled with the Wixel does not.

    My last post was an idle speculation that you probably cobble something together using an FTDI and a Wixel with a custom app that might work. Something like this:

    FTDI USB Serial Port->Wixel via its TTL interface->Radio link->Wixel->MAX232->BS2

    The FTDI driver would solve the Stamp IDE to to virtual COM port, so on the PC side you essentially bypass the Wixel's built in USB and use its TTL interface. But I imagine your serial port driver isn't set up for this which is why I figure custom coding would be required.

    I'm actually thinking there might be a way to get this to work using the FTDI cable.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2012-04-11 11:04
    Over in the Pololu form they think my using the FTDI usb to TTL might work because it will bypass the buggy windows driver. So I plan to order a pair and try this out. If it doesn't work as a programmer it will still work for the other Wixel apps.
  • john_sjohn_s Posts: 369
    edited 2012-04-11 13:09
    Martin_H wrote: »
    Over in the Pololu form they think my using the FTDI usb to TTL might work because it will bypass the buggy windows driver. So I plan to order a pair and try this out. If it doesn't work as a programmer it will still work for the other Wixel apps.

    Martin,

    Thank you for your thorough and excellent investigation - kudos to Pololu folks as well; and a very much appreciated exchange of thoughts at their website.
    Anyways, keep us posted as I'm also interested in the subject.

    John

    p.s. Perhaps Parallax can add something to the subject and come up with their own solution... maybe during the April 13th festivities :-)
  • NeXT-GenerationNeXT-Generation Posts: 11
    edited 2012-08-17 06:55
    Martin_H wrote: »
    Over in the Pololu form they think my using the FTDI usb to TTL might work because it will bypass the buggy windows driver. So I plan to order a pair and try this out. If it doesn't work as a programmer it will still work for the other Wixel apps.

    Sorry to ressurect this (my) old thread but did you ever get it to program the stamp? I saw on the Pololu forums how you got it to do the Prop, but you never said if you got it to work with the stamp. So, did you?
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2012-08-17 08:29
    It's been on my to do list. But my job got really crazy and I just haven't had the energy to do much robot stuff in my time off.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,260
    edited 2012-08-17 08:55
    Martin_H wrote: »
    It's been on my to do list. But my job got really crazy and I just haven't had the energy to do much robot stuff in my time off.

    Martin_H, where are your priorities? :)
  • NeXT-GenerationNeXT-Generation Posts: 11
    edited 2012-08-17 19:51
    erco wrote: »
    Martin_H, where are your priorities? :)
    :lol::lol:

    I'll probably be getting some Wixels soon anyway, I guess I can try to get it to work.
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