do you want to see these parts at radio shack?
codeviper
Posts: 208
I posted this for fun, its not fun now. I quit now thanks for the votes. but i wont be paying anymore mind to thiss poll.
if you want to talk economic practicality sorry, its not something a care about.
do you want the chips? do you not want the chips?
honest i doubt RS will go into economic ruin if the put a PROP chip in their drawers.
I know a few people who bought the kits and then immediately wanted to buy the parts the kits had.
more then anything i wanted to know i wasn't alone.
so it is wrong to want and hope and desire? i personally feel they should. the DIY bins feel empty without at least one MCU.
it seems like any time i mention anything their is someone who wants me to say
"yup, it will never happen."
don't say it isn't like that,you know, I am an adult, and I already know I wont get all the things I want. to say all the reasons something is not possible when you were not asked is only a way to make me want to give up and crawl in a hole.
this is my original post after here:
yeah these parts are simple and few but also open up a whole world of possibilities.
kits are ok, but remember its like LEGOs with instructions for some reason people tend to think thats the only thing you can do with the stuff.
i Quick start board is great but i only own/need one maybe 2
i have three PROPS and intend to buy 4 more next week.
i own 1 ARDUINO but 8 atmegas.
see the drift?
oh and don't forget the prop plug
if you want to talk economic practicality sorry, its not something a care about.
do you want the chips? do you not want the chips?
honest i doubt RS will go into economic ruin if the put a PROP chip in their drawers.
I know a few people who bought the kits and then immediately wanted to buy the parts the kits had.
more then anything i wanted to know i wasn't alone.
so it is wrong to want and hope and desire? i personally feel they should. the DIY bins feel empty without at least one MCU.
it seems like any time i mention anything their is someone who wants me to say
"yup, it will never happen."
don't say it isn't like that,you know, I am an adult, and I already know I wont get all the things I want. to say all the reasons something is not possible when you were not asked is only a way to make me want to give up and crawl in a hole.
this is my original post after here:
yeah these parts are simple and few but also open up a whole world of possibilities.
kits are ok, but remember its like LEGOs with instructions for some reason people tend to think thats the only thing you can do with the stuff.
i Quick start board is great but i only own/need one maybe 2
i have three PROPS and intend to buy 4 more next week.
i own 1 ARDUINO but 8 atmegas.
see the drift?
oh and don't forget the prop plug
Comments
i want to walk in and buy a new MCU whenever i need one.
Robert
for now though a bin with some Props and a PropPlug will be a welcome sight for me.
the quick-start board is already prominently displayed so, i hope, when some one uses the quickstart and learns from it they will find the PROPs.
yet, it wont hurt anything to put the props in a bin in one of those drawers, everyone here will know how to find it and id probley buy 1 or 2 a week
Yes logic chips i want!
but that is a whole new drawer.
right now radio shack has a drawer holding a few parallax sensors, so i am hoping to see one BIN in that drawer with a PROPPlug in another and maybe some atmegas someplace.
but yes i do want to see more discrete logic chips. like i said some where else i rebuilt an apple2e with logic chips and sockets from RS. now you can hardly rebuild ........ anything at RS lol
the funny thing is one of my local RS has me fix things for them.
The other logic chips I also use but it is more for legacy stuff so I have stocked up on parts.
I'd like to be able to buy them at the local store... but not at their usual extreme markups. I'd pay $10 for a propeller chip, but I suspect it would be closer to $15. At that price I'd just order from Parallax and wait the 2-3 days.
I know that Radio Shack has a right to make a profit, and there's overhead/packaging/inventory costs... but I cringe every time I go in there and spend $4 for $.20 worth of capacitors/resistors/you name it.
board , propeller , eeprom, 10k resister, crystal, 4 angled pins for prop plug and some female headers to bring out io pins. User adds solder, wire, and prop plug.
This thread has been beneficial to the Parallax community, but it will probably go on deaf ears at Radio Shack.Not sure if they monitor these forums.
You might want to pose the same question over at the RS blog:
http://blog.radioshack.com/2011/07/21/top-ten-diy-suggestions-from-you/
They are very interested in developing the DIY avenue this year.
Jim
Board-level components are different, in that they are more expensive, so it's not as practical to horde. You get those as you need them. When you add in shipping costs RS's prices aren't all that off base.
My local Fry's sells Prop chips, but you'd expect that of an electronics store that's the size of maybe 30 RadioShack's put together.
-- Gordon
1: chips take up little room.
2:chips I and People I know will buy MORE chips then we would buy premade general purpose boards.
3:many other parts Radio Shack sells is pointless without the return of chips. like breadboards and solder (why stock solder if your focus is on PRE-made kits.
4:their prices are bad terrible, in fact, as when i buy a chip in the mail I and NO ONE I know buys just one chip. i bought $100 in parts this month ago the shipping from mouser was ~$7
5:the parts in question here are parts that radioshack sold or fit into a bracket like they sold.
6:radio shacks at one point had cookbooks for the parts they sold, like the 555 chip and the logic chips. that sold lots more.
7:radio shack says "we want to bring back DIY" (losely quoted) I am a DIY person and I say KITS are OK but I am not buying an ENTIRE KIT everytime i need a PROP or ATMEGA
8: numerous radioshacks have double bins (two bins with same parts and lables) or no mark bins (bins without parts or lables) lets count here PROP 1 5MHZ crystal 2 6.25MHZ crystal 3 3.3V REG 4.... 4 bins bwa ha haaa we counted to 4
9: not practical to hoard its not like they spoil, and there is no reason for say the PROP not to be at least a site to store option order online pick up at store.
10: i could name ~10 more reason to have the parts. and all others can say against it is "they souldent cuase i dont think they will sell like hotcakes. if radio cared about parts not selling they wouldent stock batteries for phones no one has had in 20 years (kidding a little but i have seen parts in stores with packages so old they still say "a division of the tandy corperation" on the lable yet there is also new versions of the packages too!)
anyway it seems we do have a pattern 1 of 16 says no at all.
that says i am not alone and actually i talked to a freind who works at one RS and he says he wants this too, and he WORKS THERE
I sure don't want to order online and have to drive to RS to pick it up.
I agree with Gordon (again), I just don't see chip sales bringing in enough money.
It's actually very practical to hoard. A single Prop chip costs $8 (who knows how much it would cost at RS). If I buy 25 at a time from Digi-Key they're only $6.791 each. I'm on my second set of 25.
It's amazing how much less electronics cost if you buy a bunch at once. I've spent over $0.20 for a single resistor (in a five pack for $1) at RS. If I buy a couple hundred from Digi-Key, they're practically free (much less than a penny each).
I think electronic enthusiast only use RS for a short period when they are new to the hobby. As soon as the discover the world online they soon abandon RS except to purchase the occasional battery holder or some other such item that they need right away. They'll shop online for everything else.
So yes, it would be great if my local RS had everything Digi-Key stocks (so I could buy an item locally when I forget to include it in my DK order) but I just don't see it making RS any money.
I think the new enthusiast would be better served purchasing a QuickStart board than bare chips and since the new enthusiasts are the once (I believe) most likely to be shopping at RS, it make sense for RS to stock those.
about 2 weeks ago i bought an arduino at RS and 2 months ago i bought a new meter and spent about $200 in one bag.
all i am saying if i didn't have so many times i needed to buy a new micro (I sell different stuff I make one thing i make are LED displays for vendors and stores with animations, using an ATMEGA48)
I'd just want to see a couple in a bin so i can run in and buy it in a pinch. plus it would be helpful to have a 3.3V regulator. and a couple logic chips.
at my most local RS they didn't even have the good meter when i wanted a new one. I ordered from mouser on a thursday and it took till next friday to get there.
a one chip situation RS is perfect but regular stock i go mouser. i even have a mouser profile with 3 "stock up" lists of parts i get often.
If the poll had been "Would you like Radio Shack to stock DIP Propellers, ATmegas, 64K EEPROMs and an assortment crystals?"
I would have voted one of the versions of "yes".
But since the poll question was "should Radio Shack stock DIP propellers Atmegas the 64k eeprom and some crystals?"
I voted no because I don't feel it's my place to tell RS what the "should" do. I'm not against telling them what I'd like them to do.
2. Although It would be nice to see Radio Shack carry a huge number of chips I personally don't see them doing that since most of the people I see in the local Radio Shack here are buying phones and other gadgets. The other people that I have seen buying parts are usually after smaller things like connectors, switches, etc. If they stocked more parts I think it would bring in more people that build things but lets face it. There are hundreds if not thousands of different parts they could stock. The have to decide which ones they think they can sell in a decent quantity to make it worthwhile. If they start carrying more chips then they need to be ones that are often used in projects and ones that complement the Arduino and Propeller microcontrollers. Chips like the 74hc165, 74hc595, and some basic logic gates would be good. With so much handled by the microcontroller now many of the other parts probably don't make financial sense for them to carry. Maybe they will surprise me but I doubt we'll ever see the return of walls full or Archer parts like the used to have. Although the DIP Propeller would be a neat item to have in stock I've been using many more of the USB Propeller boards since everything you need is already there ready to use. I've already wired up several propellers by hand and now really want to focus more on all the circuits I would add to the base Propeller configuration and my software. I see that there would probably be more people interested in a base board like the Propeller Quickstart, Propeller USB Protoboard, or one of the Arduino boards than those who just want the parts to build it up themselves. Also, support costs are going to be less on a board that someone can just plug in and start using vs selling the components and hoping the customer can get it working (or find the forums for help).
3. The other parts aren't quite pointless without chip. I suppose if that is the only place someone shops then a few might seem that way. However it can be convenient If you need a protoboard or some other items to wrap up a project. Even if you don't build kits people still may need solder for custom projects or just to replace a broken cable by installing a new connector.
4. That's not exactly fair since their prices vary a lot. On many parts they are a lot more that you can find elsewhere but you pay for the convenience and the ability to walk in and get something now. Other than the one local electronics store left (which I normally go if I need an odd resistor or other parts in a hurry) the local Radio Shack is the only game in town. (Well, Microcenter has some stuff now too). We don't have Fry's here so most things are mail order. I normally wouldn't get things like resistors at Radio Shack and just get them from Mouser or Digikey (min 200, common values larger Qty) and keep them on hand. I'll only get them local if I need one that I don't have and need it now.
Some other items like the plastic project boxes are actually priced very good and I end up using a lot of those. On my last project I needed a bunch and cleared out 4 different Radio Shacks of all the small project boxes.
If they could only change a few items things I would really like to see:
- The Quickstart board selling for $25 without the USB cable. Let Radio Shack sell the cable as an extra and make a few extra bucks on that.
- Stock Propeller USB Protoboards and sell them at their normal price $29.95. No USB cable supplied with this either
- Stock the Quickstart protoboard and the matching blank 3x4 protoboard for the Propeller USB Protoboard.
Anything else would be a bonus.
That would make the Propeller boards less than the Arduino boards and may sway some people toward the Propeller.
ok i went to two English teachers lukily i am at my college right now they both agree gramaticly both of those MEAN THE SAME THING .......
really in the end "do you think they should do_________" is the same as asking "do you want them to do_________" this is literal picking over semantics.
if you want someone to do something just saying it and not helping to make it happen is well odd.
if you want cake you get cake if you want a car you buy a car. if you want radio shack to stock a part you try to get them to stock it.
whats the point in saying hey i want this, but i don't intend to do anything to make it happen and don't care if it does happen.
if that's the case you don't want it. Imagine sports if all the teams wanted to win like you want these parts.
football will just be some guys walking round with a ball and racing would be the highway in midday crowded but otherwise boring.
really thats why you voted "No" i mean why on earth so if i posted do you think superman should have thunder bolt power you would vote No cause i should have said want?
say no, but for goodness sake say no for a real reason that can honestly say has something to do with whats being asked. the want is implied in this case obviously if you think they should stock them you want them to stock them. i will never have a want i will let go unfulfilled as long as i try to make it happen i am happy.
but to say "I want this, but i dont think it should happen. " what is the point?
Imagine
Henry Ford:" I want to make a car anyone can drive,but I don't think anyone should, or will buy it so I wont try"
If you want it go for it, that's the points of wants, within reason do your best to make it happen.
but come on i dont care if people agree with me. just whats the point in not being able to accept my veiws and then saying your only argument is over a simple wording of the poll.
watch "12 ANGRY MEN" on youtube to say you are picking a side when your only quarrel is over grammar or focused on the EXACT wording ignoring the implied context, what are you realy saying?
Ah, let me pick over semantics a bit more.
"do you think they should do_________"
is not the same as "should they do _____".
If someone were to say to me "you should get a hair cut", it would bother me. If they said "I think you should get a hair cut" then less bothered.
If someone said to someone else "should Duane get a hair cut?" I'd likely say "it's none of your business what I should do."
If instead they said "Would you like Duane to get a hair cut?" It is much different. I might say "I do need a hair cut".
I disagree with (not quarrel with) your use of the the word "quarrel". I don't think I have a quarrel over grammar. I don't like telling people (or companies) what they should or should not do. I don't like being told what I should or should not do. You might think the wording in this case unimportant (about using "should"). I disagree. I think the difference in wording is very important. And I think there's a big difference between disagreeing and quarreling. My wife and I often disagree. We never quarrel.
I could disagree all day with out getting upset. I think quarreling all day might be upsetting.
The picture is a little clearer when you understand that one of RadioShack's principle buyers/marketers came from 7-Eleven. Nothing in that statement is a knock at either RS or 7-Eleven, simply an observation that they've decided to be a mass merchandiser. They only make money when they sell lots of everything.
If they were to add chip-level Propeller parts, then they should really add about 500 more things people might need. Well, they already tried that, back in the 70s and 80s. Why do you think they stopped? (And that was before the impact of the Internet, with easy access to specialty online stores like Parallax.)
The vast bulk of their users don't know how to connect an Arduino, let alone wire up a Propeller or ATmega from parts. It's a wonder RS is stocking what they do. Online and store retail each have their place in the scheme of things.
-- Gordon
i could post a should pigs fly poll it wont make the pigs fly.
RS is not a mass seller if they were they definitely would fail, if radio shack cared about bulk sales thet would give big sells they will drop price, as all sellers of volume sells do.
buy 1 get this price get 10 pay less get 100 pay this ECT.........
its up to radio shack what they sell all i was hoping for was to see your wants, i didnt give a flying flip on economics as for all anyone here knows that is what i do.
really did radio shack almost go bankrupt in the 70s and 80s? oh yeah that was their golden age I COLLECT their memorability. I even have an TRS-80 pocket computer.
realy what is up with forums now-a-days, its like if a new person comes in there is always on or two people want to beat them down or out.
what is going on with you two?
one of you nitpicking over little phrasing issues sorry duane you dont have an argument you even assumed Im angry, probley due to a mention of the film "12 angry men" that didn't mean i am angry or you for that matter. it just fetures people who have poor argument skills. duane you just voted "yes but i just dont care for your phrasing, so i chose no."
Gordon i hate to tell you this but I am one guy and i can beat radio shacks prices, they are over priced and don't risk any dangers of having one or two micros added to the parts bins.
in fact a local RS WANTS these parts and i sold a few ATMEGAs to them last week because they had requests from other customers.
so i ordered 30 atmega328s at ~2.80 each sold them for 4.00 and the RS store sold them $6 each so
(4-2.80)*30= 31.20 profit for me and yes i divided shipping into each chip.
so i kind of don't want them to stock it to as i will lose that sale. next time they need it refilled.
the ideal has to do with, do you want it, which is implied. of course this chatter will not MAKE RS carry these parts.
It is amazing of Duane's own description the whole and entire reason he said no is because the should part upset him, Daune doesen't like should.
I thought this place would be different, i was right you guys don't care about my points or expressing your own opinion on the topics you would rather tear apart my programmer, or talk economics then about the topic i am posing if the SHACK WILL CARY THESE PARTS DO YOU WANT TO SEE THEM DO IT.
I can in no way force the shack to do this i do know one shack near a college where so many customers want them they will purchase them from me.
yes the employes can order the chips themselves if they new what to look for, but they don't.
what is going on in forums? it is always some reason why one or two new people get picked apart by people like you.
economics? wording? both of you know what i was asking, instead you decided to take an other wise interesting question and ruin it, thanks for stealing the fun away from this for me, i hope you are happy.
As for Fry's - I just wish the closest one to me wasn't a 4 hour drive. (and yes I have driven there and back in a day just to buy Parallax products)
Paul
I'm sorry, what? Was this directed at me?
My understanding is that you posted a poll, I'm guessing to see what others think. But when you get opinions that differ from yours you get upset. I've hardly "picked apart" anyone. I've merely offered my own opinion. Not that it matters more than yours' or Duane's or anyone else's, but you DID ask. Or am I mistaken?
(I'll confess I'm a bit confused too about Duane's reasoning for voting no. I voted yes to your question, but I'd have voted no to "should they..." because I don't want them to go sour on supporting the maker space if things like crystals sell too slowly. Maybe that was what Duane was talking about as well.)
I will give you some background on me, so you understand my perspective -- not that it makes me right, but it simply happens to be different from yours. Apart from Forrest Mims I've had more of my book titles sold through RS stores than any other author. Since the mid 1980s I have worked closely with them doing over half dozen books, on a variety of their product. This all changed when in about 2000 when they announced a massive shift in their marketing approach. They dropped nearly all their books, and trimmed out hundreds of SKUs that either sold too slowly, required too much support, were too easily shoplifted, or didn't have adequate margins.
It was the success of mail order outfits like SparkFun, Pololu, and Parallax to show them there was still opportunity in the DIY space. They decided they wanted a piece of that action, so they're back in it now. But they're still not selling beyond a proven core of products. Even then, the full slate of Propeller goodies isn't available in every store.
In a couple of months you will see a project in the RS stores developed by me and Parallax using several core Parallax products. It doesn't use chip-level Props, but even better, it's made to benefit a much wider audience. This is what mass marketers do. You WANT this approach, because it brings products like the Propeller QuickStart to the mainstream. If RS goes back to being a hole-in-the-wall shanty in the local strip mall we've made no progress. They can either be a niche seller or a mass marketer. They can't be both.
You asked, "do you want to see these parts at RadioShack"? Sure, why not. But I've tried to explain why it likely won't happen. And, why it won't happen is NOT a bad thing. RadioShack is becoming a better retailer exactly because they are concentrating on making a small set of solid products like the QuickStart mainstream.
Again, this is merely my opinion. It carries no weight, and might just be wrong. I can live with that.
-- Gordon
i just wanted peoples opinion if they wanted it really.
in my personal knowledge and real world experience RS near collages can carry ATMEGAs and PROPs and sell em fast.
my local RS stores don't carry everything the website has for example. but when i order on the RS site i get greated with a neat package of parts when i walk into my local store.
for the way people act id swear they thought they ran RS it is up to RS if they carry it its up to us if we want it.
that is my only problem.
if gordon wants to talk Economics that be ok but to bust me down by over and over and over bringing economics into it,when i only wanted to know do you want this, the item is not only about the item itself but the other things people may buy with it.
that is all there is to it. RS carries far more obscure parts and such. lets see i just called four shacks the website still carries new 555s and all the local stores still have 555s
in the old packages.
the old packages went out what 5 years back.
the ATMEGAs i sold to a the owner of a local RS near the collage here are almost gone 6 of 30 left.
i just don't think it is in my or his scope to say the economics of it are bad.
oh BTW i meant "it" not "tit".
and inspite of your perspective Gordon which i may in fact own a few of your books, RS can decide on if RS will carry it. i just wanted to know if you want it.
you know i can see i wont get any level of enjoyment here.
economics suck when you just want to know if someone wants something.
what if this was posted in a petition? would you say that at 100 signatures 1000, 10000, 100000? i was just asking, the very ideal of economics getting involved is a joke.
as economics have nothing to do with what i asked really. i am not sure if anyone noticed. I buy a LOT from mouser. RS i buy meters PCBs and breadboards mostly.
i like the old engineering handbooks RS sold i have like 8 of them. plus the old comics.
and plz understand i may have problems but if i do something you don't like say it bothered you i will understand.
BTW seeing as they carry such obscure parts as they do now one regulator 2 crystals and an MCU might not be that far fetched.
I don't see a need for others to understand my reasoning. I acknowledge my reasoning may be unique to myself, based on my experiences and my brain. I would think if my reason was "because I always vote no on Tuesdays", or "I always vote no when it's the third option" also shouldn't be a reason to take a no vote as personal. I don't think my no vote cost anyone an election or raised anyone's taxes.
I disagree with lots of people on the forum. My disagreeing with someone is not an indication I don't like them, or I am mad at them or think they are mad at me.
The world would be kind of a boring place if everyone agreed with everyone else.