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How to Avoid Dangers — Parallax Forums

How to Avoid Dangers

HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
edited 2012-04-01 12:45 in General Discussion
http://humanoidolabs.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-to-avoid-dangerous-aliens.html

Although this is a controversial topic, at one time we believed that with great intelligence would come great understanding and the compassion for all living creatures. This is no longer the case. Disagree?

Comments

  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2012-03-27 06:57
    Humanoido wrote: »
    ...at one time we believed that with great intelligence would come great understanding and the compassion for all living creatures....

    Because we have no examples of "great intelligence" here on earth or elsewhere, all we can do is speculate. Or hope.

    One speculation: it would take an immense amount of time for a civilization to develop the technical ability to navigate the stars, and that immense amount of time would act as a kind of filter that would Darwinistically weed out psychological processes that tend toward violence, selfishness, etc. since those characteristics tend to become self-destructive sooner or later.

    When I was a child, I honestly believed we earthlings learn from history, that as a civilization we record our hard-learned lessons and move slowly but inexorably upwards. But our present day state of affairs proves we don't. We have a significant fraction of society that would rather re-write the history lessons than actually learn from them. So here we are. While we face a future that obviously requires more intelligence and more understanding and more cooperation, we count among our leadership and potential leadership men and women who want to reduce our education system and research institutions down to that of a third world country.

    Beam me up, Scotty.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2012-03-27 07:28
    ElectricAye, to make you a bit more optimistic I'd suggest reading "The Progress Paradox" which makes a good case that in spite of our perceptions human society is making gain. Steve Pinker's "The Better Angels of Our Nature" is supposed to be similar but I haven't read it.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2012-03-27 07:33
    Martin_H wrote: »
    ElectricAye, to make you a bit more optimistic I'd suggest reading "The Progress Paradox"....

    Thanks, Martin. I'll take a look at it. My biggest concern is that we indeed make progress but only up to a point before our dimwitted bickering brings us down again, in some sort of erosive cyclic doo-doo loop.
  • TtailspinTtailspin Posts: 1,326
    edited 2012-03-27 08:53
    While we face a future that obviously requires more intelligence and more understanding and more cooperation, we count among our leadership and potential leadership men and women who want to reduce our education system and research institutions down to that of a third world country.
    Take heart ElectricAye, There are many many good people out there that have these exact same concerns...
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    I might just take the fine Rev's offer, and collect my 10.5 million,(it is mine, after all.) Then I can help the world too,
    With this money, I will engage in battle and fight the corruption that runs rampent world wide...Nay, Universal wide..
    The battle is nigh, If it needs to be fought against Off-world aliens, then so be it...

    Take heart indeed ElectricAye.


    -Tommy
  • lardomlardom Posts: 1,659
    edited 2012-03-27 09:48
    Humanoido I was working on an animation with 'green aliens' which is another hobby I have. I had considered seeking out the 'big brain' but I'm not sure what it looks like yet. :smile: For the moment I've put this project aside to work on something else but I'll try to finish it up before too long. Whatever I do I am going to have some fun with it. Video
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2012-03-27 10:31
    Ttailspin wrote: »
    ....

    I might just take the fine Rev's offer, and collect my 10.5 million,(it is mine, after all.) ...

    Glad to hear the good news! Hey, and I got a phone call today from a slurred heavily-accented voice telling me I had won 2 million dollars in publishing clearing house. Too bad the phone slipped from my hand and landed in the cradle before I could hear what personal information I needed to provide to collect it all. Maybe aliens knocked the phone out of my hand, you think? That's how they sabotage us, I've heard. Then next thing you know, you've got a subscription to Reader's Digest, and that's how they infiltrate your brain, take over the cosmos.
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2012-03-27 11:20
    What danger? With Humanoido on the job, I got nothing to worry about.
    alfred_e_neuman.jpg
    330 x 427 - 36K
  • wiretripperwiretripper Posts: 7
    edited 2012-03-27 11:25
    I am beginning to believe that all of the world's populous follows the stages of change model more or less. Within this model there is a stage known as relapse where the person, or the general populous in this case, reverts back to the old not so productive way of doing things for a time, but then eventually goes back to making more positive changes. If we're lucky in this process, we'll continue to progress a little bit farther ahead each time despite of the relapse stage.
    Because we have no examples of "great intelligence" here on earth or elsewhere, all we can do is speculate. Or hope.

    One speculation: it would take an immense amount of time for a civilization to develop the technical ability to navigate the stars, and that immense amount of time would act as a kind of filter that would Darwinistically weed out psychological processes that tend toward violence, selfishness, etc. since those characteristics tend to become self-destructive sooner or later.

    When I was a child, I honestly believed we earthlings learn from history, that as a civilization we record our hard-learned lessons and move slowly but inexorably upwards. But our present day state of affairs proves we don't. We have a significant fraction of society that would rather re-write the history lessons than actually learn from them. So here we are. While we face a future that obviously requires more intelligence and more understanding and more cooperation, we count among our leadership and potential leadership men and women who want to reduce our education system and research institutions down to that of a third world country.

    Beam me up, Scotty.

    star_trek_scotty.jpg
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2012-03-27 15:04
    ... the world's populous follows the stages of change model....If we're lucky in this process, we'll continue to progress a little bit farther ahead each time despite of the relapse stage.


    Just so long as the relapse phase doesn't take us back too far.
  • JLockeJLocke Posts: 354
    edited 2012-03-27 22:39
    Well, she DID turn me into a newt!
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2012-03-29 06:21
    Not quite sure we have acquired greater intelligence. After all the CIA is called the Central Intelligence Agency and they don't seem so well endowed (in intelligence that is).

    Mostly, the Information Age and all it has achieved is a bit disappointing. Instead of a post box stuffed with junk mailings of credit card applications; working girls now stuff my email box with come ons. Before they either couldn't afford the postage or didn't have the knowhow. And now we have politicians that are far more interested in spin than in what is the right thing to do.

    So your assumption that greater intelligence has been achieve may have no real basis. And then of course, I've know a lot of high IQ people that didn't have a lick of common sense.
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2012-03-29 08:54
    So your assumption that greater intelligence has been achieve may have no real basis. And then of course, I've know a lot of high IQ people that didn't have a lick of common sense.
    Exactly what is the defining element of intelligence that creates a value system of common sense? We can see the dangers of those who have intelligence on one hand, and lack common sense on the other. Napolean in 1798 had great intelligence to move (vast armies) across distances of continents, only to mass slaughter humans when he arrived. Left hand and right hand, will they ever agree?
  • TtailspinTtailspin Posts: 1,326
    edited 2012-03-29 19:35
    Left hand and right hand, will they ever agree?
    Did you ever notice that when you finally get the robot to balance...you want to push it over. :lol:
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2012-03-29 19:49
    Humanoido wrote: »
    ... Left hand and right hand, will they ever agree?
  • RiJoRiRiJoRi Posts: 157
    edited 2012-03-30 07:10
    Humanoido wrote: »
    Although this is a controversial topic, at one time we believed that with great intelligence would come great understanding and the compassion for all living creatures.

    "The War of the Worlds" comes to mind, as do E.E. Smith's Eddorians. His Arisians would have gotten their butts kicked if they hadn't gone underground. (Or whatever you do in space!) Then there are all the evil geniuses of fiction. Originally, the best Sherlock Holmes could do was fight Moriarty to a draw.

    --Rich
  • lardomlardom Posts: 1,659
    edited 2012-03-30 07:52
    ElectricAye said
    Thanks, Martin. I'll take a look at it. My biggest concern is that we indeed make progress but only up to a point before our dimwitted bickering brings us down again, in some sort of erosive cyclic doo-doo loop.
    Hmmm... A large number of anal orifices playing "musical chairs". (I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.) :innocent:
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2012-03-30 09:17
    At one time, I resided in Hanford, Washington. It was a little community that claimed to have the highest agregate IQ of any city in the USA.

    I have always wondered why such a community would have creation of nuclear weapons as the basis for its economy. In truth, I am not sure where the world is really going, but I have good reason to believe that I won't be around in another 25 years. And these days, I fear that Taiwan will be part of China, PRC within the next decade.

    The truth is that the upper echelon of the world is still bickering over borders and carrying grudges from the past few centuries. The majority of the world's leaders still feel that their powerful families are the ones that should run the world - not those with either great intelligence or (as I would prefer) those with great wisdom.

    Russia seems to be a country that enjoys dynatic politcs as a ruthless game, China apparently wants to punish all that exploited the country with opium, Cuba still hates American capitalism, Palistine is not even recognized as a country - but willing to start WWIII to become one, Pakistan would have been better off it it had remained part of India, Siri Lanka is devoutly Budhist -- but has no tolerance for Tamil Tigers; Argentia is being run by a family; Africa has about 25% of the world's nations - but can't seem to stabilize them; and the list goes on. and on and on...

    Canada seems to be one of the more fortunate places on earth as it doesn't have much history to repent and hasn't tried to be a superpower - but it may only be second to Russia in territory. Are Canadians really smarter?

    What would have Napoleon done in 1812 without the USA willing to buy the Lousiana Purchase? He may not have had enough cash to finance his ambitions. Often one nations selfish ambitions to be secure set off another nations problems. America sent the Black Ships into Tokyo Harbor, so Japan felt they had to bomb Pearl Harbor for the sake of honor.

    Anyone that is really smart would cease playing these games and maybe get a grip on global warming. But we all live in a world that 'just is'.

    I want world peace, I pray for world peace, but I still have to dodge a lot of hazards while doing so.
  • lardomlardom Posts: 1,659
    edited 2012-03-30 10:22
    @LoopyByteloose, you've made some interesting observations but IQ by itself only enables people to find more ingenius ways to take something from someone else.
    I would love to see a shift back to a society with a strong work ethic. I'd like to see "Do your fair share!" as opposed to "Pay your fair share!"
    Emperors a century ago did not have air conditioning. If I could have introduced 'banana split' ice cream to the king I would be fabulously rich.
    Given enough time we would send robots to Mars to build the infrastructure ahead of a human colony. People need the talents of a large number of other people to live the way we do. Think about what it takes to begin from the resources in the ground to buying a shirt off a rack in a store.
    Human nature, being what it is, demands that I continue to hold on to my set of keys.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2012-03-30 13:23
    Edison and Ford represented a great work ethic. Even the team of Hewlett and Packard happened to be the poorest guys in their graduating class at Stanford during the height of the Great Depression. The story goes that the class raised cash to buy them a pair of suits (my day graduated with them).

    But today we have Facebook, Microsoft, and Apple -- founded all by college dropouts they 'had vision' and could hire all the graduates they needed. It is hard to tell youth that they should work hard and expect good things will come of it when Lady Gaga is laughing all the way to the bank or soccer players are doing better than Phds.

    Again, I've no answers. The world is what it is. Good parents will be honest with their kids and try to raise them to be true to themselves. I wish I knew how to avoid whatever dangers are likely to come, but what the heck are they?

    There certainly does seem to be a corelation between rapid technological changes and political instablities. The worlds arms race is not just about making better guns - it is the whole array of support for the battlefield. It seems that as soon as something is invented, someone feels the need to exploit the military advanage it provides. Only after the swords are invented and tested in battle are they beaten into plowshares.

    I'll stop. This forum is not suppose to be about such things.
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2012-03-30 15:17
    The more we study the relationship between intelligence (IQ) and common sense (EQ), we find it's possible to have one without the other. One without the other is not a desirable thing. People who have brain defects are often genius in one area, and able to perform great feats of memory or mathematics, but cannot tie their shoes or function in the real world with people. Just as common sense and intelligence are differing elements, so are values. Intelligence may arise without the instillation of values. Values are often the discerning elements that lead to common sense. So the great mathematical mind may not know enough common sense or values and will default wearing socks. In working with machines, and instilling their programming, it is unanimously agreed on the necessity for all three - intelligence, common sense, and values. But imagine what will happen with the machine when some programmer defaults on one or the other based on lack of judgement..
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2012-04-01 11:05
    Too abstract, you might as well be talking about the Id, the Super Ego, the Ego, and Libido.

    Is there any room there for maturity and life experiences?

    As near as I can make out, the world might be a bit better off because we have more interlinked communication with people of vast experiences and maturity.

    Genius is one of the least useful attributes for leadership toward world peace. It take tenacity and patience to not end the world. In some ways, having a prince not become king until the king passed away was a good system. The prince was in training his whole life and was likely to be more mature and experienced when the change of leadership unfolded.
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2012-04-01 12:45
    Values of various conditions and types can be defined relative to "important and enduring beliefs or ideals shared by the members of a culture about what is good or desirable and what is not." Values can include philosophy, types of thinking, understanding, and occurring under its formation we have the relative degrees of maturity and experiences. We can gain value in the experiences and knowledge of others and that's one reason we can utilize books and schools so effectively and program our electronic machines with wisdom.
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