will be C programs created with this PropGCC run faster than Spin programs.
And how much you expect it to be ?
I want to transfer Arduino programs , are they slower or faster with PropGCC ?
1GB Netbook with latest .exe and 3.3 base install.
It compiles and loads programs SWEETLY to my Quickstart!! Makes the Netbook totally usable as a SimpleIDE platform. I need to try it with some larger files to load but so far, SO much better!
I kept decreasing the wait times and it kept running without missing a beat at 100, it starts dropping data after line 460 or so...at 50, it starts dropping data at line 800. Is a buffer in the IDE getting filled up someplace since output is being generated faster than the USB connection to the Propeller can clear it off? Is there any flow control between the PC and the Propeller? I'm guessing not inherently in the C libraries, it would be something the Propeller application would need to implement. I don't see this as an IDE problem or issue. If it is a flow control problem, then my only IDE concern would be for LARGE programs if tehy have a chance to overrun the buffer space. I'm just rambling - non of this is based on any facts or knowledge.
It's a day full of boring conference calls, so I hope to get a lot done with SIDE!
I have been running SimpleIDE on a laptop that is a 1.8 GHz Core Duo with 4GB RAM. The following were made (based on an average across 1 minute execution time) running the provided code.
waitcnt(CLKFREQ/5+CNT);
7.69% CPU Usage
20.3 MB - Memory being used by SimpleIDE
520 bytes - I/0
waitcnt(CLKFREQ/50+CNT); // faster
22.6% CPU Usage
21.1 MB - Memory
1.2 Kb - I/0 Every 14th entry (roughly every 224 characters/bytes), there was loss of data
waitcnt(CLKFREQ/500+CNT); // murderous
31,74% CPU Usage
21.3 MB - Memory
1.2 Kb - I/0 System started to become noticably slower on other applications
I have been running SimpleIDE on a laptop that is a 1.8 GHz Core Duo with 4GB RAM. The following were made (based on an average across 1 minute execution time) running the provided code. ... Hopefully this helps.
Yes, thanks. It is very helpful.
I have another image soon.
This also fixes the Enable/Disable button.
will be C programs created with this PropGCC run faster than Spin programs.
And how much you expect it to be ?
I want to transfer Arduino programs , are they slower or faster with PropGCC ?
Jean Paul
Hi Jean Paul.
C programs on Propeller run much faster than equivalent Spin programs, but use more HUB memory.
It's difficult to judge just how much faster it is. In some tests I've seen 3x faster, but in others I've seen > 50x faster. Propeller GCC C programs can approach COG speed with tight loops and calculations because of COG caching.
I don't have direct comparisons with AVR devices used on Arduino yet. There was a project for porting Arduino programs to Propeller via GCC, but I've not heard anything on that for months now.
Ok tried the latest exe: The results I get are that opening and closing the serial terminal without disabling it (I just happened to notice that the green + can still be clicked while the terminal is open). will trigger the behaviour for me every single time at every level of output rate. If I don't disable first then the menus will not populate with items when you click on them and you can't close any tabs. If I do disable the serial port then it works just dandy.
I also seem to have issues sending any program that are larger, like those that use the full printf to the board. It will start the download and sit at 50% until an error message appears and says "Propeller-load.exe Error waiting for program to finish". Seems as though if I just don't click OK and wait it out though that the program does load, but clicking OK seems to restart the board.
Sometimes I can't load a program because I get the "No Propeller Found" errors. I have to hit reset then quickly hit "Run" to get it to start to load the program.
Sometimes I can't load a program because I get the "No Propeller Found" errors. I have to hit reset then quickly hit "Run" to get it to start to load the program.
Hi Kyle.
Please, It would be very useful if you can help me with 2 things.
1) Describe your propeller setup?
a. What kind of propeller board do you have?
b. Can you try another propeller board if possible?
2) Can you Ctrl+Alt+Delete and choose "Start Task Manager" to help show what your Netbook is doing?
a. In Windows Task Manager, click CPU and make sure the first entry has a number under CPU.
b. Please post the Image Name and CPU numbers here from highest to lowest CPU.
c. Then click the IDE debug button F8
d. Post the Image Name and CPU information again.
1.) Board is a QuickStart board..... and now that I think of it, weren't there some serial port 'oddities' discovered in those?
It's the only board I have handy at present.
2.) Are you wanting it sorted by CPU useage? Not sure what you meant by CPU 'number' If I sort by usage then the list is in constant motion. Heres a screen shot of what I think you meant:
1.) Board is a QuickStart board..... and now that I think of it, weren't there some serial port 'oddities' discovered in those? It's the only board I have handy at present.
Yes, there are some oddities. I'm using unmodified QuickStart boards in my tests though.
2.) Are you wanting it sorted by CPU useage? Not sure what you meant by CPU 'number' If I sort by usage then the list is in constant motion. Heres a screen shot of what I think you meant:
That's fine.
Do you copy SimpleIDE.exe to PropGCC-SimpleIDE.exe ?
If not, you're still running a very old program. Please verify.
I'll produce a new package soon.
Oh good lord. I totally missed the fact the names were different. That's a big duh moment there. I'm now getting a version of 0.4.0 from 'About'. Will test again this weekend.
Thank you sir for your efforts. I must say i was waiting for the beta testing but this alpha-pre-beta tool is the thing i need to start with the Propeller.
The issue is that I might be losing "wife time" and she will not be pleased.
I must say i was waiting for the beta testing but this alpha-pre-beta tool is the thing i need to start with the Propeller.
Installing now and will test later.
MCR, I'm not sure if anybody welcomed you to the forums or not. Welcome to the forums!
The PropGCC compiler will likely enter beta test in Mid-March using the SimpleIDE as the graphical programming interface. There's a separate alpha/beta to be conducted with our Eclipse IDE, which will include a more complete debugging system. This is expected to start at the end of March or April - exact schedule is still being resolved.
I'll have another full package posted within a week that includes several features and fixes requested by forum members.
Everything will settle down fully by Propeller-GCC Beta time.
Since I wansered into the thread complaining first, allow me to take a moment and say thank you as well. Really amazing effort that has been put into this. It was not that long ago I thought, "that'll be interesting in a year or two", and here it is just a few months later and it's already quite interesting.
some issues are teething troubles, like the error window during load, but en bloc it works fine!Now I'm testing some new projects (sides;-) , several are public here over the time.edit; one question in interesst; is the exe build with DEV-CPP ?
Hi Reinhard,
I'll be posting a new package soon after I get some new project stuff connected. What did the error window during load say?
Most of my projects are "side projects" these days
The application is built with QtCreator. I know there are several translation strings to fix. Are any IDE messages translated for you?
with error message I mean this (attached) Message Box.
It appears on each Download to my demoboard.
But I ignore it and wait til the blue "usb" Led is finished with flash, than I click the OK Button.
After this the program in RAM or EEPROM runs normaly.
I guess this is a kind of timeout problem and not seriously.
I test only on a Window7 netbook with Atom N550 processor.
Extra translation from any string is not necessary - english is ok.
Reinhard
Edit:
I'm not sure if I understand you right, but if you plan to make a
multi language GUI, I can to join in help translations in german and italian.
Great job BTW on SimpleIDE. Very impressive. It's fast, makes a lot of sense, and a user can be up and running in a matter of minutes.
I'm not sure if this is really a problem, but I just wanted to mention this. TAB works as expected, might want shift-TAB to go opposite direction. Just my opinion though.
I ran the install, picked the default settings, and everything worked perfectly right off. This is a VERY good, yet simple compiler/IDE combo. I'm very glad you wrote this, especially since I'm not a big fan of Eclipse (it's just to darn big and bloated IMO).
Great job BTW on SimpleIDE. Very impressive. It's fast, makes a lot of sense, and a user can be up and running in a matter of minutes.
I'm not sure if this is really a problem, but I just wanted to mention this. TAB works as expected, might want shift-TAB to go opposite direction. Just my opinion though.
I ran the install, picked the default settings, and everything worked perfectly right off. This is a VERY good, yet simple compiler/IDE combo. I'm very glad you wrote this, especially since I'm not a big fan of Eclipse (it's just to darn big and bloated IMO).
I really appreciate the line numbers! That is always handy to have.
Re: board targets for "propeller-load" configuration (top right corner of the application).
I see that there are a number of "targets" listed. Some of these are obvious (Like "PPROPBOE," "PROTOBOARD," "HYDRA," etc.), however some of them are not (like "C3F," "PPUSB," "ASCP," "SSF"). It might be helpful if, in the pull-down listing at least, they were more descriptive. This would be especially important for first-time Propeller users who don't know what some of these boards are.
Also, would you consider moving this to the "Compiler" options? It would seem to me that the compile options/target board of projects would be tied with the project itself. Even though it might have more to do with "loading" the project, it seems (to me at least) that would be part of how the application manages the project.
I don't know if there is a way to roll together the "SD Card Load Type" and this setting together, however they might be able to be used for the same thing. Just a thought.
Re: board targets for "propeller-load" configuration (top right corner of the application).
I see that there are a number of "targets" listed. Some of these are obvious (Like "PPROPBOE," "PROTOBOARD," "HYDRA," etc.), however some of them are not (like "C3F," "PPUSB," "ASCP," "SSF"). It might be helpful if, in the pull-down listing at least, they were more descriptive. This would be especially important for first-time Propeller users who don't know what some of these boards are.
I could read board descriptions from a file an put them in an info box. For the time being, I'll leave that to the manufacturer to support in their literature.
I don't know if there is a way to roll together the "SD Card Load Type" and this setting together, however they might be able to be used for the same thing. Just a thought.
The SDcard Load Type specifies a boot option. Some boards will need to have their RAM loaded from the SD card before boot. Other boards will run programs straight from the SDcard. For most boards, it is not relevant. It makes sense in the project compiler options because certain commands need to be added based on the Load Type.
I'm sure I'm being spectacularly stupid here, but I can't find a download link for this software. The link in the top post on this thread doesn't seem to mention it at all.
EDIT: OK I found a link to it on page 3 of this thread. You REALLY need to update post #1 on this thread to have the new download link on it.
I just tried it and it passed my 2 minute test... That is if it takes me less than 2 minutes to get it working then it's a winner
I have some suggestions:
If I haven't selected a COM port when I hit the "BURN EEPROM" button, then it would be nice if the software does a COM port scan and then presents me with a list of available ports to choose from (if you can shortlist them to ones with Propellers already connected than that's the perfect fix). As it stands it just does nothing.
It is not obvious what "Board Type Select" I should use. I always build my boards from basic principles - so it would be really nice to have a Board Type called "Homebrew" or something equivalent to indicate that it's suitable for basic scratch-built dev boards.
Wrong icon for "Save as". The double-disk icon normally means "Save all". That's just me being pedantic
Many people make their own Propeller proto boards (who in their right mind would pay $99 for a Parallax dev board one when I can spend 2 hours building one myself for $5 ) so there must be a setting for the basic ad-hoc Prop system. And by that mean: Propeller chip + eeprom + prop-plug header + 5MHz xtal + 3v3 voltage regulator and nothing else at all.
Anyway, I like it a lot already. If you need another tester then give me a shout and I'll help you out as best I can, I'm happy to sink some time into this. I really appreciate your efforts in making a fully featured IDE - that is definitely a huge endeavour and I know how much work it represents.
This forum constantly surprises me - such a fabulous, supportive and friendly community populated with smart people willing to devote this much time and energy to the good of the many, and for free too.
Jazzed, amazing work buddy, great stuff.
Oh and just for fun, here's some of my small collection of scratch-built Propeller boards (your IDE is happily talking to all of them I'm impressed)
Wanted to let you know what is happening with SimpleIDE.
1. Yesterday, we were able to install a SimpleIDE.dmg on a fresh MAC and things worked as expected.
2. There are many bug fixes and feature enhancements ready in the current repository.
3. One critical feature keeps me from posting a new release set.
The critical feature is regarding SD Card serial downloads in the propeller-load program.
A package disabling that feature could be posted, but it is "awkward" to do that.
We are desperately trying to finish up for starting beta before the the Parallax EXPO.
Comments
will be C programs created with this PropGCC run faster than Spin programs.
And how much you expect it to be ?
I want to transfer Arduino programs , are they slower or faster with PropGCC ?
Jean Paul
It compiles and loads programs SWEETLY to my Quickstart!! Makes the Netbook totally usable as a SimpleIDE platform. I need to try it with some larger files to load but so far, SO much better!
I kept decreasing the wait times and it kept running without missing a beat at 100, it starts dropping data after line 460 or so...at 50, it starts dropping data at line 800. Is a buffer in the IDE getting filled up someplace since output is being generated faster than the USB connection to the Propeller can clear it off? Is there any flow control between the PC and the Propeller? I'm guessing not inherently in the C libraries, it would be something the Propeller application would need to implement. I don't see this as an IDE problem or issue. If it is a flow control problem, then my only IDE concern would be for LARGE programs if tehy have a chance to overrun the buffer space. I'm just rambling - non of this is based on any facts or knowledge.
It's a day full of boring conference calls, so I hope to get a lot done with SIDE!
waitcnt(CLKFREQ/5+CNT);
7.69% CPU Usage
20.3 MB - Memory being used by SimpleIDE
520 bytes - I/0
waitcnt(CLKFREQ/50+CNT); // faster
22.6% CPU Usage
21.1 MB - Memory
1.2 Kb - I/0
Every 14th entry (roughly every 224 characters/bytes), there was loss of data
waitcnt(CLKFREQ/500+CNT); // murderous
31,74% CPU Usage
21.3 MB - Memory
1.2 Kb - I/0
System started to become noticably slower on other applications
Hopefully this helps.
Yes, thanks. It is very helpful.
I have another image soon.
This also fixes the Enable/Disable button.
Hi Jean Paul.
C programs on Propeller run much faster than equivalent Spin programs, but use more HUB memory.
It's difficult to judge just how much faster it is. In some tests I've seen 3x faster, but in others I've seen > 50x faster. Propeller GCC C programs can approach COG speed with tight loops and calculations because of COG caching.
I don't have direct comparisons with AVR devices used on Arduino yet. There was a project for porting Arduino programs to Propeller via GCC, but I've not heard anything on that for months now.
Thanks,
--Steve
I also seem to have issues sending any program that are larger, like those that use the full printf to the board. It will start the download and sit at 50% until an error message appears and says "Propeller-load.exe Error waiting for program to finish". Seems as though if I just don't click OK and wait it out though that the program does load, but clicking OK seems to restart the board.
Sometimes I can't load a program because I get the "No Propeller Found" errors. I have to hit reset then quickly hit "Run" to get it to start to load the program.
Hi Kyle.
Please, It would be very useful if you can help me with 2 things.
1) Describe your propeller setup?
a. What kind of propeller board do you have?
b. Can you try another propeller board if possible?
2) Can you Ctrl+Alt+Delete and choose "Start Task Manager" to help show what your Netbook is doing?
a. In Windows Task Manager, click CPU and make sure the first entry has a number under CPU.
b. Please post the Image Name and CPU numbers here from highest to lowest CPU.
c. Then click the IDE debug button F8
d. Post the Image Name and CPU information again.
Thanks a ton,
--Steve
It's the only board I have handy at present.
2.) Are you wanting it sorted by CPU useage? Not sure what you meant by CPU 'number' If I sort by usage then the list is in constant motion. Heres a screen shot of what I think you meant:
Before Opening the Serial Terminal.
After it is opened and closed.
Yes, there are some oddities. I'm using unmodified QuickStart boards in my tests though.
That's fine.
Do you copy SimpleIDE.exe to PropGCC-SimpleIDE.exe ?
If not, you're still running a very old program. Please verify.
I'll produce a new package soon.
Thanks,
--Steve
Thank you sir for your efforts. I must say i was waiting for the beta testing but this alpha-pre-beta tool is the thing i need to start with the Propeller.
The issue is that I might be losing "wife time" and she will not be pleased.
Installing now and will test later.
MCR, I'm not sure if anybody welcomed you to the forums or not. Welcome to the forums!
The PropGCC compiler will likely enter beta test in Mid-March using the SimpleIDE as the graphical programming interface. There's a separate alpha/beta to be conducted with our Eclipse IDE, which will include a more complete debugging system. This is expected to start at the end of March or April - exact schedule is still being resolved.
Ken Gracey
I'll have another full package posted within a week that includes several features and fixes requested by forum members.
Everything will settle down fully by Propeller-GCC Beta time.
Yes, welcome to the forum!
--Steve
Just today I download the 0.3.2 version from the g**gle side.
After successful install I tried several preloaded demos and must say: Very good work, thanks.
some issues are teething troubles, like the error window during load, but en bloc it works fine!
Now I'm testing some new projects (sides;-) , several are public here over the time.
Once more a great job, thanks
Reinhard
edit; one question in interesst; is the exe build with DEV-CPP ?
Hi Reinhard,
I'll be posting a new package soon after I get some new project stuff connected. What did the error window during load say?
Most of my projects are "side projects" these days
The application is built with QtCreator. I know there are several translation strings to fix. Are any IDE messages translated for you?
Thanks,
--Steve
with error message I mean this (attached) Message Box.
It appears on each Download to my demoboard.
But I ignore it and wait til the blue "usb" Led is finished with flash, than I click the OK Button.
After this the program in RAM or EEPROM runs normaly.
I guess this is a kind of timeout problem and not seriously.
I test only on a Window7 netbook with Atom N550 processor.
Extra translation from any string is not necessary - english is ok.
Reinhard
Edit:
I'm not sure if I understand you right, but if you plan to make a
multi language GUI, I can to join in help translations in german and italian.
I love it.
Ok, I'm pretty sure this is solved by the current IDE. I should be able to post another package soon.
Good to know this. I test on a Win32 Atom netbook.
The Qt package should provide translations for messages depending on the user's OS settings.
http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/i18n-source-translation.html
Thanks,
--Steve
I'm not sure if this is really a problem, but I just wanted to mention this. TAB works as expected, might want shift-TAB to go opposite direction. Just my opinion though.
I ran the install, picked the default settings, and everything worked perfectly right off. This is a VERY good, yet simple compiler/IDE combo. I'm very glad you wrote this, especially since I'm not a big fan of Eclipse (it's just to darn big and bloated IMO).
Thanks @fixmax!
I've added block tab and shift-tab indent.
Hi Ray.
Here's your line numbers.
I'm not entirely committed to the "Tools Output" tab yet.
Re: board targets for "propeller-load" configuration (top right corner of the application).
I see that there are a number of "targets" listed. Some of these are obvious (Like "PPROPBOE," "PROTOBOARD," "HYDRA," etc.), however some of them are not (like "C3F," "PPUSB," "ASCP," "SSF"). It might be helpful if, in the pull-down listing at least, they were more descriptive. This would be especially important for first-time Propeller users who don't know what some of these boards are.
Also, would you consider moving this to the "Compiler" options? It would seem to me that the compile options/target board of projects would be tied with the project itself. Even though it might have more to do with "loading" the project, it seems (to me at least) that would be part of how the application manages the project.
I don't know if there is a way to roll together the "SD Card Load Type" and this setting together, however they might be able to be used for the same thing. Just a thought.
Thanks!
--trodoss
I could read board descriptions from a file an put them in an info box. For the time being, I'll leave that to the manufacturer to support in their literature.
The SDcard Load Type specifies a boot option. Some boards will need to have their RAM loaded from the SD card before boot. Other boards will run programs straight from the SDcard. For most boards, it is not relevant. It makes sense in the project compiler options because certain commands need to be added based on the Load Type.
Thanks, side, is starting to look good. Where is the latest download of side, that has the line numbers?
Ray
Hi Ray. I'm preparing another package over the weekend.
EDIT: OK I found a link to it on page 3 of this thread. You REALLY need to update post #1 on this thread to have the new download link on it.
I assume this is the right place.. http://code.google.com/p/propside/downloads/list
I have some suggestions:
- If I haven't selected a COM port when I hit the "BURN EEPROM" button, then it would be nice if the software does a COM port scan and then presents me with a list of available ports to choose from (if you can shortlist them to ones with Propellers already connected than that's the perfect fix). As it stands it just does nothing.
- It is not obvious what "Board Type Select" I should use. I always build my boards from basic principles - so it would be really nice to have a Board Type called "Homebrew" or something equivalent to indicate that it's suitable for basic scratch-built dev boards.
- Wrong icon for "Save as". The double-disk icon normally means "Save all". That's just me being pedantic
Many people make their own Propeller proto boards (who in their right mind would pay $99 for a Parallax dev board one when I can spend 2 hours building one myself for $5Anyway, I like it a lot already. If you need another tester then give me a shout and I'll help you out as best I can, I'm happy to sink some time into this. I really appreciate your efforts in making a fully featured IDE - that is definitely a huge endeavour and I know how much work it represents.
This forum constantly surprises me - such a fabulous, supportive and friendly community populated with smart people willing to devote this much time and energy to the good of the many, and for free too.
Jazzed, amazing work buddy, great stuff.
Oh and just for fun, here's some of my small collection of scratch-built Propeller boards
Parallax Propeller Projects by Adam N. Ward, on Flickr
Two minute test. Check
I'm running out of time for new features, but there is good news there.
A floppy with a pencil on it will replace the current Save As icon.
The generic board type is "HUB" ... I'm open to a better name.
Always happy to have more testers here.
Any help identifying problems now is appreciated.
I'm taking your advise on the download links.
That's a nice set of boards you have!
Thanks,
--Steve
Wanted to let you know what is happening with SimpleIDE.
1. Yesterday, we were able to install a SimpleIDE.dmg on a fresh MAC and things worked as expected.
2. There are many bug fixes and feature enhancements ready in the current repository.
3. One critical feature keeps me from posting a new release set.
The critical feature is regarding SD Card serial downloads in the propeller-load program.
A package disabling that feature could be posted, but it is "awkward" to do that.
We are desperately trying to finish up for starting beta before the the Parallax EXPO.
Thanks,
--Steve
I've extracted the Windows version and find myself lost. I've not stumbled over the IDE yet.
OBC