Whist this may work I would prefer to see all the power pins connected and some decoupling caps.
That is then pretty much how I started out with the Prop except I had to build the transistor serial programming interface.
I thought this might be an RCA Cosmac 1802 emulator on the Propeller chip.
No, but there's already a Tiny BASIC programming language version for the Propeller found on the HYDRA CD. It does almost exactly the same as the Netronics COSMAC ELF version.
I sense a swing (or dare I say wrap-around?) in your psychology here. Not so long ago, you were building immense scaffolds of Prop chips wigged with wires and towering toward the heavens... and gianormous telescopes to see beyond the beginning of the universe. Now we're seeing microscopically-sized telescopes made of water drops and minimalist Prop concepts that do nothing but move bits around. And with the power unplugged, it does even less than that. It's totally blowing my mind with its Zen-like simplicity - a Prop chip that just sits and thinks about moving a bit about thinking about moving a bit... but never moves it.
Hmm...How can the Propeller think about moving a bit without actually moving some bits?.
Did the big brain project(s) ever actually do anything? I think I have yet to see schematics or code or anything that one might like to reproduce for themselves.
I sense a swing...building immense...now we're seeing microscopic...
"Open all doors whether large or small to reach your destination." Big Brain "When one door is closed, don't you know, another is open" Bob Marley "Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises." Demosthenes
g3cwi,
Who is this "we" of which you speak? Or even "you"?
If I think a thought and make no action that's enough for me. I can't prove to myself that there are any other sentient beings "out there". If in fact the is even an "out there" for them to be in.
Heater said: How can the Propeller think about moving a bit
without actually moving some bits?
I don't know. Where did you get that idea?
There's lots of bits moved around by this project.
For other questions
consult the partial list of "Multiple Functions" at http://humanoidolabs.blogspot.com/p/specs.html
and search the frozen Parallax Big Brain thread
and use the following contact form or email for
additional Brain questions: http://humanoidolabs.blogspot.com/p/contact.html
Graham Stabler said: I still want to know what the box with all the switches was going to do
You have a good memory.
Are you talking about the emulated 8-bit Propeller mini-Altair computer
that programmed in binary with toggle switches and LEDs?
After recovering from virus and hard drive crash, the prop chip disappeared.
The Big Brain had a very guilty "assimilation look" on his Propeller face
and I knew resistance was futile.
I plan to resurrect it after the next order for more prop chips.
Any chance of sharing the code and schematics for your 8-bit mini-Altair with the Prop Community? (Please???)
I started my illustrious career with one of these front panel wonders and would love to be able to recreate one with a Propeller....maybe with LED colors other than 1970's RED, too!
I thought this was an old thread that I was late in noticing.
RCA Cosmac 1802 Elf, indeed. That was also one I sort of copied for my version. Lots of fun programming that chip. Low power. In So. CA San Fernando Valley we had an '1802 ELF club' that met at the Burbank HS. Probably some 30 members at one time; met on Saturday mornings and some came from miles away; one from Victorville, even. Lots of enthusiasm. But no assembler/compiler at that time. All hand assembled. Thanks for bringing up ancient memories
Mindrobots,
Do search for the old PropAltair thread. Propeller emulating Intel 8080 and running 4K BASIC or CP/M from Altair floppy images. No big brain required. Never did get round to the LEDs and switches front panel though.
...Propeller emulating Intel 8080 and running 4K BASIC or CP/M from Altair floppy images...
Thanks Heater!
I only had 1K on my Altair......Floppies???? Mine just had "flippies" as in switches. I'll put this on my project stack.....it could be fun for nostalgia sake!
Humanoido's project code and schematics would also be useful be fun to look at! :thumb:
Hmm...How can the Propeller think about moving a bit without actually moving some bits?.
Did the big brain project(s) ever actually do anything? I think I have yet to see schematics or code or anything that one might like to reproduce for themselves.
Do the bits really move?
We could tell by weighing the chip in different conditions.
What do ONEs weight.
ZEROS obviously weigh nothing.
[insert sound of water gently gurgling in a tube...]
Oooh, man, think about that, man. But what if... man, what if, like, yeah, yeah, it's totally like the bits are staying in one place but....
[insert sound of water gently gurgling in a tube...]
Ooohhh whhhoa, wow, man, and it's like the bits are not moving but it's the chip that's moving, man. The chip, man! and all the bits don't move at all, man.... it's just the chip that's moving and it's moving around the bits, man.... and it's like total evidence of some kinda chip-space-time continuum thing that's like toh-tally malleable, man.... man, I'm serious, man....
[insert sound of water gently gurgling in a tube...]
mindrobots said: Humanoido's project code and schematics would also be useful be fun to look at!
Thanks. If you can't wait for the redraw, you're welcome to contact me by email
and I can send you a verbal schematic when time permits.
I have this one memorized. I plan to have a web page for this project in the future.
penguindotrobotatyahoodotcom.
Just a reminder for everyone to backup their hard drives.
I now have a new computer that does automatic backups with Time Machine.
The discussion on whether the bits actually move on a pure thinking machine reminds me of the Physics adage about the forest and a tree. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, did it really happen? The answer was no, it never happened.
The scenario: a Prop Elf is given a thinking program (as in calculating a non ending progression of numbers, or looping) that continues forever to think, as long as the power is applied within the closed system as a whole. It may become a pseudo perpetual motion or perpetual thinking machine.
In this case, is work being performed? It depends on the program, the instantaneous moment of consideration, and the definition of work. Taking the Physics definition of work, a program that loops and moves processor bits from point A to point B and back again is doing no work at all, regardless of how many times it completes full loops. If the code moves processor bits from point A to point B which don't return, work is accomplished.
In physics, mechanical work is a scalar quantity that can be described as the product of a force times the distance through which it acts, and it is called the work of the force.
Reference
If a constant force of magnitude F acts on a point that moves d in the direction of the force, then the work W done by this force is calculated W=Fd.
In the Prop Elf, the scalar quantity of bits that do mechanical work (become a 0 or a 1) traverse and maintain distance through the propagation of electrons in the chips substrate.
The conclusion is, the Prop Elf may have two different types of thinking programs, one which is doing work and one that does no work, by definition. One thinking program can also terminate in one state or another, designating work or no work.
Don't forget. Software has friction. An endless loop going around and around always comming back to the same state and acheiving nothing still consumes energy.
I don't think Physics ever said anything about the falling of trees in the forrest.
I don't think Physics ever said anything about the falling of trees in the forrest.
I guess you never took Quantum Physics.
The analogy is covered in fundamental Physics 101
and is well known throughout the Physics community
(see link for the Physics Discussion Forum).
Oh but I did. Lot's of it. A long time ago. No mention of trees in forrests there. Although there was mention of a cat in a box. I'll check those links.
Oh but I did. Lot's of it. A long time ago. No mention of trees in forrests there. Although there was mention of a cat in a box. I'll check those links.
How long ago? A long time ago in a forest far far away?
You are refering to: Schr
End of the 1970s. Yep, that's the cat.
Anyway I maintain that all this talk of falling trees making a sound or not depending on the presence of an observer is outside the scope of physics. Physics does not have any model or description of conciouness. There are no theories or even measurements pertaining to awareness or experience etc. Therfore physics does not contain a model of observers and therefore those statements about trees and forrests are not part of physics. Metaphysics and philosophy perhaps.
Humanoido
Posts: 5,770
Comments
That is then pretty much how I started out with the Prop except I had to build the transistor serial programming interface.
I sense a swing (or dare I say wrap-around?) in your psychology here. Not so long ago, you were building immense scaffolds of Prop chips wigged with wires and towering toward the heavens... and gianormous telescopes to see beyond the beginning of the universe. Now we're seeing microscopically-sized telescopes made of water drops and minimalist Prop concepts that do nothing but move bits around. And with the power unplugged, it does even less than that. It's totally blowing my mind with its Zen-like simplicity - a Prop chip that just sits and thinks about moving a bit about thinking about moving a bit... but never moves it.
Did the big brain project(s) ever actually do anything? I think I have yet to see schematics or code or anything that one might like to reproduce for themselves.
"Open all doors whether large or small to reach your destination." Big Brain
"When one door is closed, don't you know, another is open" Bob Marley
"Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises." Demosthenes
You got it. This wins koan of the day.
I still want to know what the box with all the switches was going to do
Who is this "we" of which you speak? Or even "you"?
If I think a thought and make no action that's enough for me. I can't prove to myself that there are any other sentient beings "out there". If in fact the is even an "out there" for them to be in.
without actually moving some bits?
I don't know. Where did you get that idea?
There's lots of bits moved around by this project.
For other questions
consult the partial list of "Multiple Functions" at
http://humanoidolabs.blogspot.com/p/specs.html
and search the frozen Parallax Big Brain thread
and use the following contact form or email for
additional Brain questions:
http://humanoidolabs.blogspot.com/p/contact.html
You have a good memory.
Are you talking about the emulated 8-bit Propeller mini-Altair computer
that programmed in binary with toggle switches and LEDs?
After recovering from virus and hard drive crash, the prop chip disappeared.
The Big Brain had a very guilty "assimilation look" on his Propeller face
and I knew resistance was futile.
I plan to resurrect it after the next order for more prop chips.
Any chance of sharing the code and schematics for your 8-bit mini-Altair with the Prop Community? (Please???)
I started my illustrious career with one of these front panel wonders and would love to be able to recreate one with a Propeller....maybe with LED colors other than 1970's RED, too!
Thanks, on behalf of the Propeller community!
RCA Cosmac 1802 Elf, indeed. That was also one I sort of copied for my version. Lots of fun programming that chip. Low power. In So. CA San Fernando Valley we had an '1802 ELF club' that met at the Burbank HS. Probably some 30 members at one time; met on Saturday mornings and some came from miles away; one from Victorville, even. Lots of enthusiasm. But no assembler/compiler at that time. All hand assembled. Thanks for bringing up ancient memories
Do search for the old PropAltair thread. Propeller emulating Intel 8080 and running 4K BASIC or CP/M from Altair floppy images. No big brain required. Never did get round to the LEDs and switches front panel though.
Thanks Heater!
I only had 1K on my Altair......Floppies???? Mine just had "flippies" as in switches. I'll put this on my project stack.....it could be fun for nostalgia sake!
Humanoido's project code and schematics would also be useful be fun to look at! :thumb:
Thinking is a horrible activity and is one of the many things I had to promise to never do again.
Do the bits really move?
We could tell by weighing the chip in different conditions.
What do ONEs weight.
ZEROS obviously weigh nothing.
[insert sound of water gently gurgling in a tube...]
Oooh, man, think about that, man. But what if... man, what if, like, yeah, yeah, it's totally like the bits are staying in one place but....
[insert sound of water gently gurgling in a tube...]
Ooohhh whhhoa, wow, man, and it's like the bits are not moving but it's the chip that's moving, man. The chip, man! and all the bits don't move at all, man.... it's just the chip that's moving and it's moving around the bits, man.... and it's like total evidence of some kinda chip-space-time continuum thing that's like toh-tally malleable, man.... man, I'm serious, man....
[insert sound of water gently gurgling in a tube...]
Thanks. If you can't wait for the redraw, you're welcome to contact me by email
and I can send you a verbal schematic when time permits.
I have this one memorized. I plan to have a web page for this project in the future.
penguindotrobotatyahoodotcom.
Just a reminder for everyone to backup their hard drives.
I now have a new computer that does automatic backups with Time Machine.
The scenario: a Prop Elf is given a thinking program (as in calculating a non ending progression of numbers, or looping) that continues forever to think, as long as the power is applied within the closed system as a whole. It may become a pseudo perpetual motion or perpetual thinking machine.
In this case, is work being performed? It depends on the program, the instantaneous moment of consideration, and the definition of work. Taking the Physics definition of work, a program that loops and moves processor bits from point A to point B and back again is doing no work at all, regardless of how many times it completes full loops. If the code moves processor bits from point A to point B which don't return, work is accomplished.
http://humanoidolabs.blogspot.com/2012/02/pure-thought.html
In physics, mechanical work is a scalar quantity that can be described as the product of a force times the distance through which it acts, and it is called the work of the force.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_(physics)
Reference
If a constant force of magnitude F acts on a point that moves d in the direction of the force, then the work W done by this force is calculated W=Fd.
In the Prop Elf, the scalar quantity of bits that do mechanical work (become a 0 or a 1) traverse and maintain distance through the propagation of electrons in the chips substrate.
The conclusion is, the Prop Elf may have two different types of thinking programs, one which is doing work and one that does no work, by definition. One thinking program can also terminate in one state or another, designating work or no work.
I don't think Physics ever said anything about the falling of trees in the forrest.
I guess you never took Quantum Physics.
The analogy is covered in fundamental Physics 101
and is well known throughout the Physics community
(see link for the Physics Discussion Forum).
http://blog.oup.com/2011/02/quantum/
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=348631
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_tree_falls_in_a_forest
How long ago? A long time ago in a forest far far away?
You are refering to:
Schr
Anyway I maintain that all this talk of falling trees making a sound or not depending on the presence of an observer is outside the scope of physics. Physics does not have any model or description of conciouness. There are no theories or even measurements pertaining to awareness or experience etc. Therfore physics does not contain a model of observers and therefore those statements about trees and forrests are not part of physics. Metaphysics and philosophy perhaps.