Help choosing parallax propeller.

teksau

I just build a propeller proto demo with a P8X32A-D40.
I have experience in programming for pic assembler, and also in asm and c for atmega.
reading the datasheet of the propeller I see that this is much more powerful than I used.
My first problem is that you can protect your code, so if you do not start learning the spin and asm.
my question is, wait the Prop2, this has code protection.
In my job, design prototypes, kiddies machines (for childrens, arcade machines).
From already thank you very much for your attention.

Daniel Saullo (teksau)

PS: Sorry for my english (I'm from Argentina)

Rayman

teksau, if you need code protection, you'll have wait for Prop 2.
Prop 2 is still 6 months away (and has been for years, but they mean it this time).
Good news is that Prop2 and Prop1 are very similar.
So, if you learn how to program with Prop1, you won't be wasting your time.
I'd start with Spin, but there are Catalina and GCC C compilers around too.

Heater.

Tekasu,
Welcome to the forum.
As you see there is no code protection in the Propeller now.
But there will be code protection in the Propeller II.
I really hope we see the Propeller II this year.

teksau

Thanks for answering quickly.
I learn, spin, asm.
what I like about this microcontroller is the idea of ​​not interrupt. years that program and try to make my programs without interrupt, and still continue to operate without problems
you know the price of Prop2.
here in Argentina is difficult to buy propeller, and a high price u $ s20, you know if you can buy directly from parallax with shipment to Argentina.

Daniel Saullo (teksau)

Ken Gracey

teksau wrote: »

Thanks for answering quickly.
I learn, spin, asm.
what I like about this microcontroller is the idea of ​​not interrupt. years that program and try to make my programs without interrupt, and still continue to operate without problems
you know the price of Prop2.
here in Argentina is difficult to buy propeller, and a high price u $ s20, you know if you can buy directly from parallax with shipment to Argentina.

Daniel Saullo (teksau)

Greetings Daniel, and welcome to the forums. You have other Argentinean friends on these forums and we have a special person on our staff (Ari) from Mar del Plata, Argentina.

Regarding the question about the Propeller 2's price, we really haven't figured it out yet. We are meeting with suppliers who would shuttle our device through the wafer manufacturer. Parallax Semiconductor is using a tighter fabrication process but expect the die size to be about the same as Propeller 1. Propeller 2 price is a function of wafer and packaging cost, NRE, R&D, testing cost, marketing objectives, comparisons to other processors, and positioning against the current Propeller 1. I think it's reasonable to suggest that we'll have higher prices at low quantities and far lower prices at high quantities (with a fairly sharp, declining curve). I don't expect a $20 price in single quantities, however, but not even knowing our final fabrication costs it's too early to speculate.

Ken Gracey

teksau

Ken:
try to communicate with Aristides, phoned and told me had died, is this true.
In 10 days I take my (holiday), and go to Mar del Plata, 250 miles from my house.
If he is still living in Mar del Plata, I could give your e-mail.
Ari seems like a good person, (I read your old post) and could help a lot.

I admire Chip Gracey. and you. I see that what they do, do it with passion, I do not understand that there is no propeller chip uses the industry. I hope the Prop2 is used more in industry. you do a good job.

Thanks for answering and hope to be another friend from Argentina

Daniel Saullo (teksau)

Lawson

Quite secure code protection on the Propeller 1 can be done if you're willing to forgo the EEPROM for program storage. In this case, the propeller would switch to a minimum power state when main power is lost and a small coin cell would keep the contents of the hub intact. This could easily provide years of program retention time if the propeller is in it's lowest power state. I.e. only one cog active and waiting most of the time, with no loads on the pins, and using the RCSLOW clock. (requires <1uA without brownout, and ~4uA with brownout) At this point copying your binary would require de-capping the chip while it's powered, or cracking your application. See this thread for details.

Lawson

Ken Gracey

teksau wrote: »

Ken:
try to communicate with Aristides, phoned and told me had died, is this true.
In 10 days I take my (holiday), and go to Mar del Plata, 250 miles from my house.
If he is still living in Mar del Plata, I could give your e-mail.
Ari seems like a good person, (I read your old post) and could help a lot.

I admire Chip Gracey. and you. I see that what they do, do it with passion, I do not understand that there is no propeller chip uses the industry. I hope the Prop2 is used more in industry. you do a good job.

Thanks for answering and hope to be another friend from Argentina

Daniel Saullo (teksau)

Hello Daniel,

Thank you very much for the compliments. You can talk to Aristides Alvarez on Skype (his Skype name is Aristides Alvarez) as he is on-line right now. He can assist in Spanish if you prefer, of course. Indeed, Ari Grande (as I called him) passed away last year. He was a fantastic person and a true engineer in every sense of the title.

About 95% of the Propeller's use is in commercial and industrial applications. I can give you a general idea of the kinds of applications: medical, renewable energy and robotics. Parallax Semiconductor could not survive on Propeller chip sales without these volume users. Regardless of what you read above, there are many serious applications with our processor and we regularly demonstrate that to serious customers as requested. These customers don't freely discuss their projects and they use our Field Application Engineers for support instead of this forum.

Sincerely,

Ken Gracey

Cluso99

Welcome to the fabulous prop Daniel. From my perspective, the prop is so much easier to use than other micros. This is because of no interrupts, nice pasm set of instructions, and the flexible soft peripherals, meaning one chip does almost everything I want (I do use multiple props on some projects too).

Ken, interesting statistics. And, unfortunately, commercial users often cannot talk about their designs. SOmetimes this is because they are too busy building products and sometimes because they do not wish to disclose what they are using. Either way, your stats are great. Nice to see the commercial use really taking off.

BTW has the 1M prop been shipped yet???

ericball

Hello teksau,

There have been several spirited discussions on code protection (and the lack of it) on the forum including the method mentioned by Lawson: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?131742-Possible-that-Prop-can-be-more-code-secure-than-other-MCUs
However, two things you must consider:
1. Any protection scheme can be broken given enough time, money and effort.
2. Often the value is not in the code but in the quality of the product and the support provided.

I would recommend you simply dive in and start working with the Propeller 1. Even if you end up using the Prop2, many of the base concepts and techniques will transfer.

teksau

thanks for the interest of all of you.

Ken: I just send a message to Ari, and wait your answer. I'll see if I can contact someone in Mar del Plata to buy some chips, sensors, an demo boards. Sorry for my ignorance, I did not know that was widely used in industrial projects and commercial projects. Thanks for everything, I hope to soon have news about my progress in the world propeller.

Cluso99: thanks for your advice.

Ericball: points 1 and 2 are true, but many hours of programming an effort, trial and error prototyping can be stolen by people who have no idea the effort.
I will begin to spin and asm program. thanks ericball

regards

Daniel Saullo (teksau)